Heathrow Plans (Merged)
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I think most of you guys are missing the point here. We all know what an utter shambles Heathrow is and it truly does need pressure taking off it. However a 3rd? runway is not gonna be built to alleviate this but to INCREASE traffic by 50%! 
The government, BAA, designers etc are all mad!
Heathrow is voted the worst airport in the world and any expansion plans will only maintain it's top of the list position.
What is needed is diversification. Spread the load and take the pressure off this airport.
Why is it that the UK is ALWAYS so blinkered when it comes to anything resembling common sense but goes ahead with its own unsupported ideals anyway only to experience the embarrassment of the whole world laughing at its ineptitude later. It's T5 all over again. Will they ever learn?
Heathrow is a national disgrace and no amount of elastoplast on a corpse will bring it back to life!
The government, BAA, designers etc are all mad!
Heathrow is voted the worst airport in the world and any expansion plans will only maintain it's top of the list position.
What is needed is diversification. Spread the load and take the pressure off this airport.
Why is it that the UK is ALWAYS so blinkered when it comes to anything resembling common sense but goes ahead with its own unsupported ideals anyway only to experience the embarrassment of the whole world laughing at its ineptitude later. It's T5 all over again. Will they ever learn?
Heathrow is a national disgrace and no amount of elastoplast on a corpse will bring it back to life!
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I think all should listen carefully to Geoff Hoon's statement today. Having heard the Prime Minister yesterday give the H of C an assurance that time would be given for MP's to debate this matter all is not settled. There is a major political lobby to overcome. My gut feeling is if this becomes too difficult then the government will wring its hands and put off the decision until after the next election.
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And finally ,some people really are out of touch
From the BBC
Guljeet Singh is the new owner of Harmondsworth Village Store, in Harmondsworth's High Street, having taken over the business a month ago.
He said: "The shop has been established for about 10 years so it looked like a good opportunity for us."
News of the expansion plans had come as a shock, he said, as the previous owner had not mentioned them.
From the BBC
Guljeet Singh is the new owner of Harmondsworth Village Store, in Harmondsworth's High Street, having taken over the business a month ago.
He said: "The shop has been established for about 10 years so it looked like a good opportunity for us."
News of the expansion plans had come as a shock, he said, as the previous owner had not mentioned them.
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1 extra runway, 50% increase. Plan is to increase flights by 50% or more.
Result = same chaos. And how on earth will they deal with the local infrastructure problems in that area.
Should have gone for extra runways at Gatwick
Result = same chaos. And how on earth will they deal with the local infrastructure problems in that area.
Should have gone for extra runways at Gatwick
Some people need to go and take a drive round the Heathrow area. There are many many companies who rely on Heathrow being where it is. From hotels to inflight meals they industry supporting the airport is huge and employs many many people from the surrounding areas. To suggest that all these people will just move over to the other side of London is laughable
There has already been a commitment to keep Heathrow with the building of T5 (A world class terminal by the way of which we should be proud rather than just banging on about the teething problems in its first week). There is as we speak millions being spent on massive engineering projects both above and below ground to improve the place. Heathrow East will now become a reality and will replace the existing old terminals with a new one to beat even T5. Of course we will all be looking for the leaking taps or broken escalators on the opening day rather than celebrating it as thats what we do in the UK.
The amount of news crews that descended on T5 once things started to go wrong was unbelievable.
As for the argument about getting to the airport i do it every day during the rush hour and dont really have any problems. The M25 is the worst part but you can hardly blame BAA for that. Just how do you think the people form the south and south west will get to the Thames Estuary anyway?
Heathrow is here to stay and long may it remain.
There has already been a commitment to keep Heathrow with the building of T5 (A world class terminal by the way of which we should be proud rather than just banging on about the teething problems in its first week). There is as we speak millions being spent on massive engineering projects both above and below ground to improve the place. Heathrow East will now become a reality and will replace the existing old terminals with a new one to beat even T5. Of course we will all be looking for the leaking taps or broken escalators on the opening day rather than celebrating it as thats what we do in the UK.
The amount of news crews that descended on T5 once things started to go wrong was unbelievable. As for the argument about getting to the airport i do it every day during the rush hour and dont really have any problems. The M25 is the worst part but you can hardly blame BAA for that. Just how do you think the people form the south and south west will get to the Thames Estuary anyway?
Heathrow is here to stay and long may it remain.
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After reading all the posts. There is a clear divide from all parties here.
Looking at the prospect of moving LHR east and building a new airport in the Thames Estuary with the necessary infrastructure would be solve a lot of problems. But as one poster has said that it would cause major problems moving the jobs and other facilities like catering and cargo.
A purpose built airport would be best, but the major cost of the infrastructure is one huge problem that would have to be overcome. But you can’t just build an airport you would have to build the roads and high speed rail links from all parts of the country. Not just London. There is a bigger country outside the London area and this is forgotten all too many times.
A Thames Estuary airport should not be thrown out.
As for the current animal that is LHR in its present state it is a national disgrace T1 and T2 are old dark, damp, the inside of the terminals is held together with sticky tape and I feel embarrassed when I meet a flight in and the first thing people see of LHR and the UK is wires hanging down, buckets catching the rain and freezing cold gate rooms. I can go on and on. Oh and let’s not forget the 5 shopping malls that passengers and airline staff have to get through.
Yes a third runway would help and 6th terminal but you have got to look at the rest of LHR too. That will not be a quick fix far from it. Getting from central London has never been quicker. But I come in from bucks 5 times a week and would take the train, but there is no rail links from the South, West or North of the airport. So I am forced into my car and chock the already over crowed roads.
There is no easy answer to this. But I do just hope the environmentally protesters keep their protests quite and think of others when they protest. And I hope they get to LHR in green way. Say walking or on public transport and not private car. Would be very interesting to see the carbon foot print from their little picnic the other night.
Looking at the prospect of moving LHR east and building a new airport in the Thames Estuary with the necessary infrastructure would be solve a lot of problems. But as one poster has said that it would cause major problems moving the jobs and other facilities like catering and cargo.
A purpose built airport would be best, but the major cost of the infrastructure is one huge problem that would have to be overcome. But you can’t just build an airport you would have to build the roads and high speed rail links from all parts of the country. Not just London. There is a bigger country outside the London area and this is forgotten all too many times.
A Thames Estuary airport should not be thrown out.
As for the current animal that is LHR in its present state it is a national disgrace T1 and T2 are old dark, damp, the inside of the terminals is held together with sticky tape and I feel embarrassed when I meet a flight in and the first thing people see of LHR and the UK is wires hanging down, buckets catching the rain and freezing cold gate rooms. I can go on and on. Oh and let’s not forget the 5 shopping malls that passengers and airline staff have to get through.
Yes a third runway would help and 6th terminal but you have got to look at the rest of LHR too. That will not be a quick fix far from it. Getting from central London has never been quicker. But I come in from bucks 5 times a week and would take the train, but there is no rail links from the South, West or North of the airport. So I am forced into my car and chock the already over crowed roads.
There is no easy answer to this. But I do just hope the environmentally protesters keep their protests quite and think of others when they protest. And I hope they get to LHR in green way. Say walking or on public transport and not private car. Would be very interesting to see the carbon foot print from their little picnic the other night.
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LHR had its day about 30 yrs ago. It has since turned into an embarrassing farce with the exception of its ATC. How is a shoe-horned 2000 m runway supposed to bring it into competive line with the rest of Europes' far superior offerings. It's time to turn it into a housing estate and invest in a proper modern efficient Thames Estuary airport.
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What I don't understand, is why at the worlds worst airport they believe they need another runway. I know that it is believe that anything North of London isn't really England. But I do think we should be looking at developing a real hub designed in similar standards to Schiphol or Singapore Changi or Hong Kong. Airports that have actually been designed to be a hub, rather then adding a bit here and there. Terminal 5 is just awful, and I cannot understand why they didnt have a look at other countries where they have had success.
My belief is that there is no need to develop Heathrow, but more so to develop a hub somewhere North of London with some space to expand and designed properly from the outset.
My belief is that there is no need to develop Heathrow, but more so to develop a hub somewhere North of London with some space to expand and designed properly from the outset.
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The whole strategy here is to give LHR the space it needs so that the congestion and the traffic will be allieviated. It's a shame about Sipson but then Stansted expansion is going to demolish some nicer villages with the only return being more loco travel. Glad they picked the right battle first. I hope that some of the more pragmatic donors to the Tories pressure "Call me Dave" to get real about what London really needs.
I look forward to an improved and world class Heathrow. I was damning about BAA and T5 on opening but having given them time and a chance, it's a pleasure to use. It CAN be done.
I look forward to an improved and world class Heathrow. I was damning about BAA and T5 on opening but having given them time and a chance, it's a pleasure to use. It CAN be done.
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[QUOTE] My belief is that there is no need to develop Heathrow, but more so to develop a hub somewhere North of London with some space to expand and designed properly from the outset.
Great idea. Let's do that and what will happen. People who live in the area affected will beleat and whine just as those affected by R3 are now.
Great idea. Let's do that and what will happen. People who live in the area affected will beleat and whine just as those affected by R3 are now.
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<<But it has been quoted many many times before, One of these days.....They will be a 'major' catastrophie over London???
BANG - Aircraft will collide due to a very congested sky!!
It's only a matter of time.....
Common Sense dictates that there is only so many Aircraft that can be handled SAFELY in a day!!>>
But it HAS NOT happened, has it? And it won't happen because ATC and good procedures are there to prevent it from happening.
Let's not have any more sensationalist rubbish, please
BANG - Aircraft will collide due to a very congested sky!!
It's only a matter of time.....
Common Sense dictates that there is only so many Aircraft that can be handled SAFELY in a day!!>>
But it HAS NOT happened, has it? And it won't happen because ATC and good procedures are there to prevent it from happening.
Let's not have any more sensationalist rubbish, please
If the government were really serious they`d get a move on and ensure that it was built to handle extra traffic coming into London for the 2012 Olympics.
The Chinese built an entire airport the size of Heathrow in nearly that time!!!
The Chinese built an entire airport the size of Heathrow in nearly that time!!!
I hate LHR because it is so big but also love it because it is so big.
Crackpot idea of a new airport in middle of Thames estuary is just that.
LHR employs directly or indirectly well in excess of 100,000 people. Suggesting a new airport miles away means you have to provide accommodation / transport and services for another 1/2 million people close to the airport because with families and dependants that is minimum that will be required. Most people won't move but you will still need people to do their jobs.
People talk of the environmental impact but shoving a million tons of airport in the middle of the estuary will basically ensure that all the coast on both sides starts to flood at each and every tide with a probably impact further back along the Thames in London as its flow will be disrupted and it will back up.
Crackpot idea of a new airport in middle of Thames estuary is just that.
LHR employs directly or indirectly well in excess of 100,000 people. Suggesting a new airport miles away means you have to provide accommodation / transport and services for another 1/2 million people close to the airport because with families and dependants that is minimum that will be required. Most people won't move but you will still need people to do their jobs.
People talk of the environmental impact but shoving a million tons of airport in the middle of the estuary will basically ensure that all the coast on both sides starts to flood at each and every tide with a probably impact further back along the Thames in London as its flow will be disrupted and it will back up.
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High speed rail links to Birmingham, Manchester, the West Country and the South coast directly to the heart of LHR would alleviate a great deal of the domestic air traffic that currently uses the airport. As well as making travel for residents in the UK far more flexible and easy, these rail links can be used for freight and so reduce road congestion.
The free slots can then be used to generate even more long-haul transit passengers who provide no financial benefit to UK PLC whatsoever.Technology will mean that few, if any, new jobs will be generated by the new runway once construction is completed by all the Polish and East European workers who are currently buidling the Olympic sites.
A third runway will not alleviate the current overcrowding of the airspace above, nor the roads to LHR nor will it ever get the air quality that the EU have imposed on the industry so just why are GB and the rest of his cronies going ahead with a project that most people agree is a waste of money.
The research to justify this runway was carried out in 2000 to 2004 and is no longer valed. Since then we have seen oil rise to $147 a barrell and, thankfully, come back to a more reasonable figure. However, the signs are there that such a price or even higher, is not so far away in the future. Who can foresee what the situation be in 15 years, which is about how long the runway will take to build?
It will be opened at a time of contracting air traffic, very high oil prices, airlines in bankruptcy and public antipathy and negative reaction against the polluting aviation industry. The runway might well be there but the justification for it will never be valid in its long and uselss lifetime.
Build railways and nuclear power stations to power them and Get Britain Moving!
The free slots can then be used to generate even more long-haul transit passengers who provide no financial benefit to UK PLC whatsoever.Technology will mean that few, if any, new jobs will be generated by the new runway once construction is completed by all the Polish and East European workers who are currently buidling the Olympic sites.
A third runway will not alleviate the current overcrowding of the airspace above, nor the roads to LHR nor will it ever get the air quality that the EU have imposed on the industry so just why are GB and the rest of his cronies going ahead with a project that most people agree is a waste of money.
The research to justify this runway was carried out in 2000 to 2004 and is no longer valed. Since then we have seen oil rise to $147 a barrell and, thankfully, come back to a more reasonable figure. However, the signs are there that such a price or even higher, is not so far away in the future. Who can foresee what the situation be in 15 years, which is about how long the runway will take to build?
It will be opened at a time of contracting air traffic, very high oil prices, airlines in bankruptcy and public antipathy and negative reaction against the polluting aviation industry. The runway might well be there but the justification for it will never be valid in its long and uselss lifetime.
Build railways and nuclear power stations to power them and Get Britain Moving!
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Minimum 10 years to come on stream. By then the current noisiest aircraft such as the 744 will have gone. So will most 73 Classics, 767s, MD80s etc - there will be a noticeable reduction in per aircraft noise. 10 years after that, aircraft noise will be a non event - probably won't hear A320/737 replacements beyond the perimeter and widebodies already dominated by 787/A350 which will be much much quieter than the already quiet A380 will be on their way to being replaced by whatever comes next which is bound to be quieter still. There may be other issues but, looking ahead, noise shouldn't be one of them.