Heathrow Plans (Merged)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Cyprus
Age: 76
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What we have seen today, re the snow, suggests that having all your eggs in one basket is not sensible. We have the M25 around London a major traffic route being totally blocked most of the day, so adding further lanes would just add greater concentration to the chaos.
Likewise having a further R/W in the same location as the existing R/Ws at LHR would just add to the chaos when the w/x turns bad. Military men always suggest that assets should be spaced out to avoid collateral damage, I believe the same thoughts should be applied to our major airports.
Most of the delays in the North of England were caused by the London hub being out of action. Aviation always works on the mantra of redundancy, clearly fortress LHR does not follow that idea, alternative routes must lead to a more robust transport network.
Likewise having a further R/W in the same location as the existing R/Ws at LHR would just add to the chaos when the w/x turns bad. Military men always suggest that assets should be spaced out to avoid collateral damage, I believe the same thoughts should be applied to our major airports.
Most of the delays in the North of England were caused by the London hub being out of action. Aviation always works on the mantra of redundancy, clearly fortress LHR does not follow that idea, alternative routes must lead to a more robust transport network.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skippy - LCY being a top-notch airport... Youve been out in the snow too long today. Brain freeze... It hardly fits the bill where portacabins are used as holding lounges, parking is limited and only a handful of commercial aircraft can operate into... For the money its raking in as mainly a 'business airport' its way short of the mark buddy... Nevermind, since the banks are cutting back maybe there will be more space in the cabin and ramp areas afterall.
Call100 - I have a considerable amount of AIRFIELD OPS experience. It doesnt take a monkey to work out from a 'Weather forecast' what to do - pre snowfall. DOH... Forward Planning? There are teams for everything else why not severe weather issues? SNOW etc etc
Flightman - If the lads had been out from 1500hrs yeaterday, well good on them. Point taken. However why isnt there a plan for this sort of thing. Its not like is hasnt snowed before. Every time it does the same issues happen. Shouldnt someone or a team of people sit down and look into finding a solution... What do other snow-airports do? Speak to them, and get a few ideas... At least try keping 1 runway open at all times.
Send some of the airport operators big-wigs to Scandanavia, Russia, Canada and the USA. Thats what you call snow.
Check this thread out. Interesting reading. ''BAA beyond a joke...''
Call100 - I have a considerable amount of AIRFIELD OPS experience. It doesnt take a monkey to work out from a 'Weather forecast' what to do - pre snowfall. DOH... Forward Planning? There are teams for everything else why not severe weather issues? SNOW etc etc
Flightman - If the lads had been out from 1500hrs yeaterday, well good on them. Point taken. However why isnt there a plan for this sort of thing. Its not like is hasnt snowed before. Every time it does the same issues happen. Shouldnt someone or a team of people sit down and look into finding a solution... What do other snow-airports do? Speak to them, and get a few ideas... At least try keping 1 runway open at all times.
Send some of the airport operators big-wigs to Scandanavia, Russia, Canada and the USA. Thats what you call snow.
Check this thread out. Interesting reading. ''BAA beyond a joke...''
Last edited by silverstreak; 2nd Feb 2009 at 20:37.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SR71: Global warming is not a myth; 30% CO2 rise in oceans in recent history couple with melting Arctic Ice is clear evidence of the effect of burning oil.
Quantification of man's part in driving this the contentious issue. If Britain switched off completely tomorrow, China would make up for any drop in man's emissions in a matter of months.
It's a very complex issue alas, but I agree that the less stacking the better.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cornwall UK
Age: 79
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heathrow Runways
Heathrow was requisitioned from Faireys towards the end of WWII and equipped with 3 runways in the RAF triangle pattern (Nos 1, 2, 3)....it was always secretly intended to make it Londons civil airport postwar and around 1945 they began to build the 'Star of David' pattern of runways with Nos.4,5,6,7 making Runway 3 immediately redundant as it ran through the Central Area (see map).... there was an expansion plan made public to build 3 more runways in a triangle north of the A4 (Sipson area) but this was officially and publicly abandoned in the early 50s....by the early Sixties only No1 (then 28R/10L), No5 (28L/10R) and No2 (23L/05R) were still in use....05R stopped being used as T4 expanded and 23L was terminated around the Millenium.
The Sipson Runway appears to be inevitable....my personal view is that Gatwick and Stansted should also receive new parallel runways for air-safety reasons and regional planning reasons to take the pressure off Heathrow and the M25 and the Thames Valley roads
The Sipson Runway appears to be inevitable....my personal view is that Gatwick and Stansted should also receive new parallel runways for air-safety reasons and regional planning reasons to take the pressure off Heathrow and the M25 and the Thames Valley roads
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re-heat,
This isn't a thread about global warming and you are free to believe what you want but the warming is not global.
Some parts of the globe are cooling.
Similarly, you'll discover that this year artic ice is very much in abundance - although it is below the 1979-2000 median.
What I object to is politicians claiming a mandate when even the scientists disagree on the data...
Funny because I believe the exact opposite.
It seems to me far easier to believe a scientist does not have an agenda when compared with a politician.
As for the IGPCC, well....
This isn't a thread about global warming and you are free to believe what you want but the warming is not global.
Some parts of the globe are cooling.
Similarly, you'll discover that this year artic ice is very much in abundance - although it is below the 1979-2000 median.
What I object to is politicians claiming a mandate when even the scientists disagree on the data...
Research to the contrary tends to be politically-motivated, misguided nonsense.
It seems to me far easier to believe a scientist does not have an agenda when compared with a politician.
As for the IGPCC, well....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Esher, Surrey
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hearing over Heathrow runway plan due this autumn
3rd Runway at LHR
Sorry that I could not look through the probably extent 500,000 posts on this forum to see if this topic has been covered already (something I at least try to do!), but what is the status (or non-status as the case might be) of a 3rd runway at LHR? Is there a good link to informative general lay reading on the topic?
I have heard that this is a most contentious subject and of that I wish to steer clear, I am just curious if I will ever in my lifetime (about 20 years more of flying to go) will arrive in LHR and not hear the words "take up the hold at xxx!"
Does the governement in the UK enjoy emminent domain? Is there even a desire for a 3rd piece of concrete?
I have heard that this is a most contentious subject and of that I wish to steer clear, I am just curious if I will ever in my lifetime (about 20 years more of flying to go) will arrive in LHR and not hear the words "take up the hold at xxx!"
Does the governement in the UK enjoy emminent domain? Is there even a desire for a 3rd piece of concrete?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: KRH270/12
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
some traffic should be taken out of heathrow and spread around the other london airports and regional airports, to reduce congestion. what about using northolt properly - that runway already exists.
and if another runway really is needed in the southeast, give it to one of the other airports - better than turning heathrow into chicago ohare.
and if another runway really is needed in the southeast, give it to one of the other airports - better than turning heathrow into chicago ohare.
HeathrowAirport
Compare with Labour c. 1998
Shortly before they privatised NATS to disastrous effect immediately after being voted in.
Don't believe anything those merchants tell you.
Of cours when the 3rd runway is built there will be no reduction in delays whatsoever. There MUST be delays at an airport working at absolute capacity. The 3rd runway wil not be there to reduce delays, merely to increase capacity. In the long run a different airport is required, but that will always be politically unpalletable.
If Labour loose the PM position, this runway wont go ahead.
Our skies are not for sale
Don't believe anything those merchants tell you.
Of cours when the 3rd runway is built there will be no reduction in delays whatsoever. There MUST be delays at an airport working at absolute capacity. The 3rd runway wil not be there to reduce delays, merely to increase capacity. In the long run a different airport is required, but that will always be politically unpalletable.
Last edited by Dan Dare; 21st Aug 2009 at 15:01. Reason: Awful spellin - sorry...
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amen,
How would that be achieved? Who gets to choose which airlines get forced out of LHR and where they go?
some traffic should be taken out of heathrow and spread around the other london airports and regional airports, to reduce congestion.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But London has just got another 2 runways, (3 if you include the grass one). They're just up the M40 NE OF Brize.
There's been a murder Lewis. Fancy a pint?
There's been a murder Lewis. Fancy a pint?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: KRH270/12
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gonzo, i didnt mean that some authority should force anyone out, the airlines would choose to leave if there was a better more efficient london airport for their PAX - but not 'London' Oxford! (which is nearer to central birmingham - ridiculous!)
Give one of the other airports the new runway, if its needed at all, and improve the infrastructure and transport links to them and watch heathrow's problems disappear..
also, does anyone know why northolt is not developed for commercial short haul flights? airports THAT convenient for huge capital cities are valuable and all you see there are a few exec jets doing nothing. i drove past it twice a day for six months and only once saw something take off..
Give one of the other airports the new runway, if its needed at all, and improve the infrastructure and transport links to them and watch heathrow's problems disappear..
also, does anyone know why northolt is not developed for commercial short haul flights? airports THAT convenient for huge capital cities are valuable and all you see there are a few exec jets doing nothing. i drove past it twice a day for six months and only once saw something take off..
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airlines will only move to other airports if the demand is there. They don't know the demand is there without intial expense of operating an initial start up route to gauge demand. That they dont want to do!
Ofcourse they can compare with operators that already operate or attempt some kind of survey but its not going to give the correct results. Regional Airports are vital to the growth of the aviation industry in the UK but its going to take more from the government, investors, consumers to actually help them develop.
If I had the option of Heathrow or Southampton for example I would take Heathrow any day of the week.
Ofcourse they can compare with operators that already operate or attempt some kind of survey but its not going to give the correct results. Regional Airports are vital to the growth of the aviation industry in the UK but its going to take more from the government, investors, consumers to actually help them develop.
If I had the option of Heathrow or Southampton for example I would take Heathrow any day of the week.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Essex
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry this may be wrong but as far as Northolt goes I think increasing the number of flights there will cause havoc with the Heathrow traffic and movement around the RMA in general?
Surely the answer is to start all over again with a new airport in the Thames Estuary with high speed rails links to London and other popular destinations?
Hong Kong built a new airport, why can't we? Should be able to get some of the money from the EU?
I just think a 3rd runway at Heathrow is a non starter.
Hong Kong built a new airport, why can't we? Should be able to get some of the money from the EU?
I just think a 3rd runway at Heathrow is a non starter.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahh, 'bob,
if only we had built Maplin in the 1960s/70s or whenever it was.
Having said that though, the floor of the southern North Sea is subsiding, due to the volume of sediment coming out of the Rhein, Scheldt and Thames estuaries.
if only we had built Maplin in the 1960s/70s or whenever it was.
Having said that though, the floor of the southern North Sea is subsiding, due to the volume of sediment coming out of the Rhein, Scheldt and Thames estuaries.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I drove past it twice a day for six months and only once saw something take off.."
You missed out as Northolt can be quite busy with military aircraft and civilian business jets. However, to make it another "London Airport" might raise problems.. conflict with Heathrow, etc.
You missed out as Northolt can be quite busy with military aircraft and civilian business jets. However, to make it another "London Airport" might raise problems.. conflict with Heathrow, etc.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: KRH270/12
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
london city is close to heathrow and that works - i'm sure with some re-organisation, northolt could get more flights in an out, lots more. the northolt runway could be extended at the western end if you buried the A40 in a tunnel, or the best solution would be a completely new, and very long, parallel runway on the green land south of the A40 (no need to flatten any houses). there is already a major motorway going right through the middle of the site and a railway line at the eastern end – it could scarcely be better...
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
london city is close to heathrow and that works
So you expand Northolt.
Your customer airlines have a split between those coming to London and those connecting to partner airlines. STAR ALLIANCE under one roof in the new T2, BA in T5, OneWorld in T3.
However now we have to choose who gets sent to RAF Northolt which is a different airfield. Who gets kicked out? Do we send them domestic? If so, connection times are screwed and they'll use the competition in Europe.
Give one of the other airports the new runway, if its needed at all, and improve the infrastructure and transport links to them and watch heathrow's problems disappear..