Futura
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some staff were being paid over market rates
Each airline decides how much they pay to their pilots, then pilots apply for position in the airline of their choice.
Maybe the quality of the pilots/staff is also above market average.
Anyway never blame employees for how much they cost to the airline, it is the airline's responsability ( managment ) to design a bussiness plan that works, and there are plenty of airlines where it works. IB,BA,LH,AF,IWD,SIA,FR,EZY.
And then the ones where it does not work such us: AZ,OA,JKK....
It is my belief that if airline managers spent all the time they spend trying to reduce cost in trying to generate more revenue things would be very different for us all.
Its just bad management that finished them....not the oil crises
Last edited by eagle21; 8th Sep 2008 at 20:02.
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i know 3/4 people at the meeting in pmi and one of them has said that they are not operating tomorrow.....so i guess someone at the meeting is as reliable as it gets...he would have no reason to spin me a fib.....
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Ok, I just had a look at the recent spanish press releases and found:
Futura admite que "es posible" que sus aviones no vuelen mañana · ELPAÍS.com
My translation:
>>
Futura admits the possibility that some flights might not “take to the air” tomorrow.
The charter company has suspended their payments. The agency's board assumes that there will be cut downs to staff numbers and asks to accept the viability plan. Spanish Civil Aviation has openend an investigation to the matter. Palma de Mallorca - 08/09/2008
*
.... *
The charter company Futura confirms the possibility to suspend some of their flights tomorrow due to “some customers might deny to operate with their flights”, as the chief of human resources of the airline, Pere Torrens, stated. The board of Futura, the airline that today suspended all their operations for the day and presented an offer to creditors – former suspending all payments - informed today in a meeting for the staff of the airline, that the airline does not have sheduled, adverse to former announcements, any flights for tomorrow.
Torrens confirmed “it's possible that some flights may be cancelled “on petition of clients that may have chosen to work with other operators.” .The manager accredits flight cancellations to the unique situation of a company like Futura who “for the first time in aviation history” maintains its commercial activities also they have suspended payments to creditors. Torrens points out that Futura should “start anew (like starting from zero) their relations with their clients” also he highlights that the company intends to maintain the sheduled services for tomorrow!
Staff cutdowns
The president (chairman) of Futura, Roman Pané, has forwarded this morning that the vialbility plan of Futura includes a cut down of staff of about 600 of the actual 1211 person staff force and that the fleet reduction will range from 22 to about 12 or 14 aircrafts. Pané explains that the presentation of the suspention of payments and the critical economic situation of the airline is due to the “monstrous and speculative raise in petroleum costs”. The manager points out that Futura will resume the activity of their flights and on Friday will present to Civil Aviation their viability plan which they will aline ( conform) with the implied syndicades (organisations).
Just before,the board of Futura did recognize openly that the momentarily situation of the airline does imply a cutdown on staff employment and asks to be informed in detail of the future plans of the airline. (?)
Civil aviation has opened an investigation on Futura for having suspended their operation in “unison decision” and demanded for Futura to present a throughout report regarding their financial situation and their garanties and founds for resuming operations.
<<
I stand to be corrected for any error unintentionally made and I wish Futura and all their staff that everything may be sorted out by Friday and no further disadvantages may result ....
All the best,
Juliett
Futura admite que "es posible" que sus aviones no vuelen mañana · ELPAÍS.com
My translation:
>>
Futura admits the possibility that some flights might not “take to the air” tomorrow.
The charter company has suspended their payments. The agency's board assumes that there will be cut downs to staff numbers and asks to accept the viability plan. Spanish Civil Aviation has openend an investigation to the matter. Palma de Mallorca - 08/09/2008
*
.... *
The charter company Futura confirms the possibility to suspend some of their flights tomorrow due to “some customers might deny to operate with their flights”, as the chief of human resources of the airline, Pere Torrens, stated. The board of Futura, the airline that today suspended all their operations for the day and presented an offer to creditors – former suspending all payments - informed today in a meeting for the staff of the airline, that the airline does not have sheduled, adverse to former announcements, any flights for tomorrow.
Torrens confirmed “it's possible that some flights may be cancelled “on petition of clients that may have chosen to work with other operators.” .The manager accredits flight cancellations to the unique situation of a company like Futura who “for the first time in aviation history” maintains its commercial activities also they have suspended payments to creditors. Torrens points out that Futura should “start anew (like starting from zero) their relations with their clients” also he highlights that the company intends to maintain the sheduled services for tomorrow!
Staff cutdowns
The president (chairman) of Futura, Roman Pané, has forwarded this morning that the vialbility plan of Futura includes a cut down of staff of about 600 of the actual 1211 person staff force and that the fleet reduction will range from 22 to about 12 or 14 aircrafts. Pané explains that the presentation of the suspention of payments and the critical economic situation of the airline is due to the “monstrous and speculative raise in petroleum costs”. The manager points out that Futura will resume the activity of their flights and on Friday will present to Civil Aviation their viability plan which they will aline ( conform) with the implied syndicades (organisations).
Just before,the board of Futura did recognize openly that the momentarily situation of the airline does imply a cutdown on staff employment and asks to be informed in detail of the future plans of the airline. (?)
Civil aviation has opened an investigation on Futura for having suspended their operation in “unison decision” and demanded for Futura to present a throughout report regarding their financial situation and their garanties and founds for resuming operations.
<<
I stand to be corrected for any error unintentionally made and I wish Futura and all their staff that everything may be sorted out by Friday and no further disadvantages may result ....
All the best,
Juliett
Last edited by EC-YKA; 8th Sep 2008 at 21:20. Reason: error due to not being a native english ;-)
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dingoxh ... thank you for your answer. I'm convinced that noone implied within this "problem" has any mayhem to spread ... it's just that I'm overly sorry to hear and read such bad news ...
greetz from PMI
Juliett
greetz from PMI
Juliett
I confirm this.
Tomorrow we will not fly again. We can not access to our rooster (via Intranet) since sunday evening. Skyops (crew/planes control application) is also not working.
We received a sms message in which we are informed that the CEO is not controlling FUA, Director of Operations is missing (in order to keep all his bones complete...). The "Concurso de Acreedores" is a bankruptcy process controlled by the spanish Government.
Although we love Futura, we are nearly all looking for job. There is probably no solution if all the lessors, clients and providers loose thrust in Futura.
Does anyone need 250 well trained B737 pilots?
Flydubai, JAL, KAL, China?...
Tomorrow we will not fly again. We can not access to our rooster (via Intranet) since sunday evening. Skyops (crew/planes control application) is also not working.
We received a sms message in which we are informed that the CEO is not controlling FUA, Director of Operations is missing (in order to keep all his bones complete...). The "Concurso de Acreedores" is a bankruptcy process controlled by the spanish Government.
Although we love Futura, we are nearly all looking for job. There is probably no solution if all the lessors, clients and providers loose thrust in Futura.
Does anyone need 250 well trained B737 pilots?
Flydubai, JAL, KAL, China?...
All with level 4 English I presume? Some of the the Futura crews flying to my base had some real language issues
Good luck to the Futura crews, I hope it works out.
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All with level 4 English I presume? Some of the the Futura crews flying to my base had some real language issues
Not very nice under the circumstances............. how's your Spanish then ?
What could Oceancrosser rhyme with ??
Edited to ensure evel 4 english for my friend Oceancroser !
Not very nice under the circumstances............. how's your Spanish then ?
What could Oceancrosser rhyme with ??
Edited to ensure evel 4 english for my friend Oceancroser !
Last edited by muckin fuddle; 9th Sep 2008 at 06:50.
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Level 4
Congratulations: you've just achieved to give them an extra stab in the back at the right time (when they need it least, that is).
It rhymes with to**er and I may not mean toaster by the way.
Anyways: animo compa~neros mucha suerte y desde el MUAC os deseamos lo mejor. Una pena tener que vivir dos eventos tan malos y tan proximos (el otro siendo siendo lo del MD80, teniendo JKK la base ahi seguro que os cae cercano).
Un saludo muy grande y mantened la cabeza alta,
A.
It rhymes with to**er and I may not mean toaster by the way.
Anyways: animo compa~neros mucha suerte y desde el MUAC os deseamos lo mejor. Una pena tener que vivir dos eventos tan malos y tan proximos (el otro siendo siendo lo del MD80, teniendo JKK la base ahi seguro que os cae cercano).
Un saludo muy grande y mantened la cabeza alta,
A.
Now I may feel sorry for those Spanish pilots losing their jobs at Futura. But there is another side to the coin as well. I do not feel sorry that Futura is out of business. There is an element of their own doing therein. They agressively undercut other airlines on price for tour operator flights. They practiced flights into realms of flight duty time not achievable by airlines from countries with reasonable FTL limits e.g. the UK. Spain is not exactly a front runner there.
And why is it only acceptable to point to asians and other from far away for their English R/T communications skills, or more exactly lack thereof? A couple of French operators also spring to mind for the same reason.
Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura. Now the chickens have come home to roost.
And why is it only acceptable to point to asians and other from far away for their English R/T communications skills, or more exactly lack thereof? A couple of French operators also spring to mind for the same reason.
Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura. Now the chickens have come home to roost.
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Now I may feel sorry for those Spanish pilots losing their jobs at Futura. But there is another side to the coin as well. I do not feel sorry that Futura is out of business. There is an element of their own doing therein. They agressively undercut other airlines on price for tour operator flights. They practiced flights into realms of flight duty time not achievable by airlines from countries with reasonable FTL limits e.g. the UK. Spain is not exactly a front runner there.
And why is it only acceptable to point to asians and other from far away for their English R/T communications skills, or more exactly lack thereof? A couple of French operators also spring to mind for the same reason.
Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura. Now the chickens have come home to roost.
And why is it only acceptable to point to asians and other from far away for their English R/T communications skills, or more exactly lack thereof? A couple of French operators also spring to mind for the same reason.
Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura. Now the chickens have come home to roost.
You never did answer my question - how is your level 4 Spanish ? ( or Chinese, Malaysian or even French now !! )
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I'll bet oceancrosser only speaks English!
But hey... who needs to speak a second language!
Oceancrosser please decide! You are happy because now that Futura is shuting down pilots will have more time to improve their English (Linguaphone), or you are happy because the pilots will get a chance to find a job somewhere
(to practice their English) with better FDP limitations!
But hey... who needs to speak a second language!
Oceancrosser please decide! You are happy because now that Futura is shuting down pilots will have more time to improve their English (Linguaphone), or you are happy because the pilots will get a chance to find a job somewhere
(to practice their English) with better FDP limitations!
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Dear oceancrosser,
some people seem to be stupid when they are quiet; others do confirm what they are when they write.
Spanish 16B was more restrictive than EU-OPS part Q.
Undercutting: CPT average month salary of 9500€ and 6000€ for a F/O. Can you undercut anything with this salaries
ICAO level 4: you are right. This summer we had new f/o's. 3 were fired two month ago. New pilots usually do not know how to talk on HF. But they can fly and can learn to speak better.
"Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura": where?
PS: sorry about my ICAO level 4 (got as present from the spanish DGAC; french crews got level 6...), but english is my 5th language.
some people seem to be stupid when they are quiet; others do confirm what they are when they write.
Spanish 16B was more restrictive than EU-OPS part Q.
Undercutting: CPT average month salary of 9500€ and 6000€ for a F/O. Can you undercut anything with this salaries
ICAO level 4: you are right. This summer we had new f/o's. 3 were fired two month ago. New pilots usually do not know how to talk on HF. But they can fly and can learn to speak better.
"Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura": where?
PS: sorry about my ICAO level 4 (got as present from the spanish DGAC; french crews got level 6...), but english is my 5th language.
I Have Control
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Unfortunate news
What a shame...Good Luck to all Futura folk seeking work during these difficult times.
Last edited by RoyHudd; 10th Sep 2008 at 07:46.
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Good luck to all the Futura lads and lassies. Ignore what OceanTosser is saying!
Back when EI used to handle you guys in DUB I had the pleasure to meet some very funny personalities in the flight deck!
You'll all go on to bigger and better things no doubt!
Back when EI used to handle you guys in DUB I had the pleasure to meet some very funny personalities in the flight deck!
You'll all go on to bigger and better things no doubt!
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Nice recovery from a bit of thread drift.
Times are hard for all in JAA land, brace youselves guys and girls I fear worse is around the corner. Those on the other side are having it likewise although with a different regime to which we do not subscribe or bid.
The industry regardless of which side we are on is the important one, good luck to those that are searching for a new position, I wish you all well and hope you find sucess quickly.
Jox
Times are hard for all in JAA land, brace youselves guys and girls I fear worse is around the corner. Those on the other side are having it likewise although with a different regime to which we do not subscribe or bid.
The industry regardless of which side we are on is the important one, good luck to those that are searching for a new position, I wish you all well and hope you find sucess quickly.
Jox
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Heard the news of Futura's unfortunate demise in work today. As a load controller who has been dealing with Futura crews for quite a while now I am honestly sorry to see them go - even if the based aircraft arrangement at EGPF didn't really work all that well a couple of years back! 
In all honesty though, the majority of the crews were true professionals and an absolute pleasure to deal with - I can only wish them all the very best for the future and hopefully they'll move on to far bigger and better things very quickly indeed.
clearasmud154
In all honesty though, the majority of the crews were true professionals and an absolute pleasure to deal with - I can only wish them all the very best for the future and hopefully they'll move on to far bigger and better things very quickly indeed.
clearasmud154