Ryanair - 'Laying Off' 600!!
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Ok,im not an acountant,and hope somebody on here can work on this so as to come up with an acurate set of figures,anyway,heres a start
sector 2hrs at 2.4t per hour,so fuel burn is approx 4.8t
@ 900e per ton = 4320e for fuel
crew costs = 1500e ?
maintainance = 2000e ?
aircraft lease = 1000e ?
airway/landing = 1500e ?
total = 10320e
so with 189 pax,break even would be around 55e,add airport tax etc approx about 85e average fare on a full aircraft,sounds reasonable?bear in mind that some people will pay less,but most will pay a lot more.
also noted that oil has droped today to 124 a barrel,thats good news!
warrior.
sector 2hrs at 2.4t per hour,so fuel burn is approx 4.8t
@ 900e per ton = 4320e for fuel
crew costs = 1500e ?
maintainance = 2000e ?
aircraft lease = 1000e ?
airway/landing = 1500e ?
total = 10320e
so with 189 pax,break even would be around 55e,add airport tax etc approx about 85e average fare on a full aircraft,sounds reasonable?bear in mind that some people will pay less,but most will pay a lot more.
also noted that oil has droped today to 124 a barrel,thats good news!
warrior.
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More twaddle
peter we, you do talk twaddle. How on earth can you possibly know what the fuel bill for Ryanair will be, or any other airline, come to that? If you have a crystal ball, please let us know and we can use it to foretell the winner of the Derby next year. You also point out that people do not have to fly, in particular, those who use short-haul. Which book of facts did that come from, or was that also plucked from the crystal ball? I could as easily write that long-haul will be the first to suffer any downturn and it would be just as much twaddle as your statement.
Befree, you seem to be of the impression that all Ryanair passengers originate in the UK, they don't. Most of them live in the euro zone and they travel within the euro zone or to the UK so how is it bad for Ryanair that they report their accounts in euros? You also say that half the people in the UK fly every year; again, this is wrong. Many passengers fly several times a year, as many of Ryanair passenger do. And on what basis do you write that Ryanair will suffer more than any other airline? More mythical facts, together with dubious, badly understood and poorly interpreted statistics lead us to read yet even more twaddle.
Xeque, have you seriously studied the cost/km for trains v planes? Not only will you pay three times the price to enjoy your leisurely trip by train, you will simply never find a reasonable timetable to get you from Birmingham, Bournemouth or Belfast to Bezier, Bratislava or Budapest. The comparison is just not realistic. London to Leeds perhaps, but for the others, forget it.
Twaddle, unless you are over 60 and have unlimited time of course.
Studi, you are comparing apples and oranges. Ryanair do not operate long-haul so have no comparison to make. I have direct knowledge of the fact that many of Ryanair's and easyJet's customers are middle-class, above average income owners of second homes in Europe. You can deny it but it doesn't make the fact go away. They are well able to spend a little more of their considerable disposable income on their regular trips to their holiday homes. Again, more twaddle.
Befree, you seem to be of the impression that all Ryanair passengers originate in the UK, they don't. Most of them live in the euro zone and they travel within the euro zone or to the UK so how is it bad for Ryanair that they report their accounts in euros? You also say that half the people in the UK fly every year; again, this is wrong. Many passengers fly several times a year, as many of Ryanair passenger do. And on what basis do you write that Ryanair will suffer more than any other airline? More mythical facts, together with dubious, badly understood and poorly interpreted statistics lead us to read yet even more twaddle.
Xeque, have you seriously studied the cost/km for trains v planes? Not only will you pay three times the price to enjoy your leisurely trip by train, you will simply never find a reasonable timetable to get you from Birmingham, Bournemouth or Belfast to Bezier, Bratislava or Budapest. The comparison is just not realistic. London to Leeds perhaps, but for the others, forget it.
Twaddle, unless you are over 60 and have unlimited time of course.
Studi, you are comparing apples and oranges. Ryanair do not operate long-haul so have no comparison to make. I have direct knowledge of the fact that many of Ryanair's and easyJet's customers are middle-class, above average income owners of second homes in Europe. You can deny it but it doesn't make the fact go away. They are well able to spend a little more of their considerable disposable income on their regular trips to their holiday homes. Again, more twaddle.
How on earth can you possibly know what the fuel bill for Ryanair will be,
Here's the figures
Ryanair profits fall on fuel costs, takeover bid: Associated Press Business News - MSN Money
You also point out that people do not have to fly, in particular, those who use short-haul. Which book of facts did that come from, or was that also plucked from the crystal ball?
Last edited by peter we; 25th Jul 2008 at 12:33.
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Pete We
Who cares?
Ryanair are a strange animal in many respect, not least in having a gob****e for a CEO, but that aside they make a lot of money (for now) on buying aircraft dirt cheap off the back of a post 9/11 deal.
Ryanair are a strange animal in many respect, not least in having a gob****e for a CEO, but that aside they make a lot of money (for now) on buying aircraft dirt cheap off the back of a post 9/11 deal.
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@ Xeque :
I routinely fly from Charleroi to Italy (Rome, Bergamo, Treviso) or to Ireland and return, with Ryanair, for 60 euros at the most, and more often less (sometimes even for 8,02 euros, credit card fee included).
How could you do it more cheaply by train or even by coach ? And there are even no direct trains between Belgium and Italy ...
Note : Ireland as well as most European countries are all in the Euro zone - only Great Britain remains in its pound sterling hermitage ...
I routinely fly from Charleroi to Italy (Rome, Bergamo, Treviso) or to Ireland and return, with Ryanair, for 60 euros at the most, and more often less (sometimes even for 8,02 euros, credit card fee included).
How could you do it more cheaply by train or even by coach ? And there are even no direct trains between Belgium and Italy ...
Note : Ireland as well as most European countries are all in the Euro zone - only Great Britain remains in its pound sterling hermitage ...
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Most of this thread has, as always, descended into unrelated nonsense. Moderators really ought to ensure the thread remains on topic, rather than just permitting another round of muck.
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Originally Posted by JulietNovemberPapa
Most of this thread has, as always, descended into unrelated nonsense. Moderators really ought to ensure the thread remains on topic, rather than just permitting another round of muck.
L Met
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I want to thank MOLly for my recent trips on FR. I bought 4 round trips to DUB and SNN for free...no taxes or anything. (well MOLly's free is actually Ł1.50 per ticket charge for debit cards!). But we didnt buy coffee or food and didnt pay for any luggage or insurance, so they were a bargain. We have just bought some more tickets for Ł1 to DUB from LGW, no taxes...hey good value again!
Lots of our airline friends and colleagues are buying them...cheaper than staff travel! And if you dont travel you have lost nothing and MOLly cant sell the seats for a higher fare at a later date.
If we dont take advantage of these 'free seats' before FR goes bust there may not be another chance! Why does he do it!?
Thanks again Michael...we all love your free tickets.
Lots of our airline friends and colleagues are buying them...cheaper than staff travel! And if you dont travel you have lost nothing and MOLly cant sell the seats for a higher fare at a later date.
If we dont take advantage of these 'free seats' before FR goes bust there may not be another chance! Why does he do it!?
Thanks again Michael...we all love your free tickets.
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make no mistake, FR is not going bust, if they did the skies would be a seriously quiet place as most other operators would have gone bust long before them. FR will be amongst the last airlines standing. Rememer they are a cash rich company with a couple of billion in the bank to weather hard times, others are struggling to make a profit with mounting debts !
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Bose Wave = correct - RY's financial strength (net cash in balance sheet, and B738 book values way under market price, even after recession) means it will be one of the last ones standing.
Studi - go look at the CAA's data about LCC pax income profile vs BA etc - you'll be shocked to see that RY flies a mix of pax that's not dissimilar to your beloved network majors. Even though there's no service, people still like a cheap price. And I stick with my point that the long-haul families will still take holidays, but just short-haul for a couple of years while the fuel price is so high - so short-haul carriers have trade-down business that the long-haul guys won't have, to replace the stuff that stops flying due to squeezed household income. I really wouldn't be bearish about the futures of RY and EZ, no matter that they don't make profits for one year and the stock market chooses to trash their share prices....
Studi - go look at the CAA's data about LCC pax income profile vs BA etc - you'll be shocked to see that RY flies a mix of pax that's not dissimilar to your beloved network majors. Even though there's no service, people still like a cheap price. And I stick with my point that the long-haul families will still take holidays, but just short-haul for a couple of years while the fuel price is so high - so short-haul carriers have trade-down business that the long-haul guys won't have, to replace the stuff that stops flying due to squeezed household income. I really wouldn't be bearish about the futures of RY and EZ, no matter that they don't make profits for one year and the stock market chooses to trash their share prices....
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Bose is correct in my opinion, Ryanair will be one of the last standing if the industry continues to go south. If there's ever a pilot shortage they will simply absorb the pilots from companies that go bust, and move in to claim the markets that open up from it. To break even is still quiet a feat with the current oil prices. Another thing that makes FR dangerous apart from their low overhead and cash reserves is the fact that much of their revenue comes from other sources like hotels and car rentals. MOL does envision travel where the fare itself is free does he not? Like them or not I imagine it's one of the few companies where you can expect a relatively stable career.
RY's financial strength (net cash in balance sheet, and B738 book values way under market price, even after recession) means it will be one of the last ones standing.
As for the aircraft valuation, do you seriously think dumping 100+ 737 on a market is going to get you a good price?
You are whistling past the graveyard.
The only observation you can make at present is that Ryanair is solvent at present and it's Directors believe today that it will continue to remain so, since trading when insolvent will see the Directors in big trouble.
Also note that due to the simply huge cashflows involved in running an airline, when things go bad, they go bad very, very quickly - in a matter of a few weeks or less, and the first people who know are the fuel suppliers.
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Why anybody would want to work for ryanair is beyond me. They might be making money but they must be one of the worst employers around.
If Ryanair laid off 100s of pilots I'm sure they would all look back and recognise it was for the best in the long run when they got a job with a decent operator.
If Ryanair laid off 100s of pilots I'm sure they would all look back and recognise it was for the best in the long run when they got a job with a decent operator.
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WHATDOESTHISBUTTONDO: Why anybody would want to work for ryanair is beyond me.´
Maybe the only employer around that was employing? What kind of a remark is that! If other airlines and their some around, are employing. Then why would you not go and work for them. Or, should these aspiring airline pilots wait for the hiring boom to arrive? Say what you want but, due to the econoimical situation, that´s been on the negative side for somewhile now. The oportunities did come from the likes of FR,EZ and others.
Maybe the only employer around that was employing? What kind of a remark is that! If other airlines and their some around, are employing. Then why would you not go and work for them. Or, should these aspiring airline pilots wait for the hiring boom to arrive? Say what you want but, due to the econoimical situation, that´s been on the negative side for somewhile now. The oportunities did come from the likes of FR,EZ and others.
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I just hope Ryanair pilots don't go around complaining at their ever reducing Ts and Cs when they move on to a better airline, which were caused by Ryanair pilots accepting such poor ones at the bottom of the market in the first place.
What I don't like about Ryanair is that the pilots are driving down Ts and Cs for everyone else. Every pay deal airline management look at Ryanair and think, well if those guys work so hard for so little with such rubbish Ts and Cs lets try it on our own workforce.
Sure, go there for a first job but you are shooting yourselves in the foot in the long run. I doubt anybody in the industry blames Ryanair management for exploiting people in this way, it's the pilots fault for accepting it.
As I said if Ryanair lays you off 100s of pilots, they'll be doing you a favour.
What I don't like about Ryanair is that the pilots are driving down Ts and Cs for everyone else. Every pay deal airline management look at Ryanair and think, well if those guys work so hard for so little with such rubbish Ts and Cs lets try it on our own workforce.
Sure, go there for a first job but you are shooting yourselves in the foot in the long run. I doubt anybody in the industry blames Ryanair management for exploiting people in this way, it's the pilots fault for accepting it.
As I said if Ryanair lays you off 100s of pilots, they'll be doing you a favour.
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“As I said if Ryanair lays you off 100s of pilots, they'll be doing you a favour.”
I see, if 100s of pilots lose their jobs it might improve your future T & Cs. I expect they’ll be massive resignations now to help you out
If your airline lays off people who make foolish comments on this website, they’ll be doing all of us a favour!
Incidentally, I guess the button is to switch off the brain.
I see, if 100s of pilots lose their jobs it might improve your future T & Cs. I expect they’ll be massive resignations now to help you out
If your airline lays off people who make foolish comments on this website, they’ll be doing all of us a favour!
Incidentally, I guess the button is to switch off the brain.
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Sunfish: Sorry, but it's you who doesn't understand finance. I said 'net cash' because that is net of any debt. RY owns most of its planes outright, and any mortgage debt is deducted to reach the net cash position. Off-balance-sheet liabilities are some 10 operating-leased 738s - capitalising them gives RY a net debt figure that simply does not register any concern in the banking world. Sure, we can all see that RY is an abrasive employer (but note that Lufthansa is about to have strikes from cabin and ground staff), but I'm afraid it is simply tosh to suggest that RY will get into financial trouble before the rest of the industry.