BMI
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No, the decline in SAS profitability is primarily due to SK having c**p management, and also buying Spanair didn't help. The increase in the value of the bmi slots at LHR will have actually boosted the SAS bottom line, if they are kept on the balance sheet.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Comment on what the post ACTUALLY SAYS
The share of income in affiliated companies amounted to
MSEK -143 (49). This decline is primarily attributable to the
negative earnings in British Midland
MSEK -143 (49). This decline is primarily attributable to the
negative earnings in British Midland
It says "The share of income from affiliated companies <snip> is primarily attributable to the negative earnings in British Midland"
Could not be clearer.
Slot values are not revenue. Even if we accept that slot values should appear on an airlines balance sheet (and many airlines do not agree with this), it might be worth bearing in mind that slot values have only gone down lately and likely to drop further.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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So fewer Caribbean/US flights out of MAN so, I guess? Also heard that all LBA-LHR flights are to be operated by ERJs this winter.
Personally I thought the 3 ex Silver Jet 762s (and two BY ones) which should be available would be perfect for the middle east and DME ex LHR. They could have retained 50J lie-flat seats from the SJ config and had about 100 Y seats.
It might have allowed for all the 332s to be MAN based, possibly the displaced 320/321s going to WW at MAN (as per rumors on the WW thread), allowing the MAN based 737s to be moved to CWL or BHX.
Brian.
Personally I thought the 3 ex Silver Jet 762s (and two BY ones) which should be available would be perfect for the middle east and DME ex LHR. They could have retained 50J lie-flat seats from the SJ config and had about 100 Y seats.
It might have allowed for all the 332s to be MAN based, possibly the displaced 320/321s going to WW at MAN (as per rumors on the WW thread), allowing the MAN based 737s to be moved to CWL or BHX.
Brian.
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This could mean the end of baby (maybe just at Manchester). Mainline fleet semi-moving to MAN to cover EMB's moving south. Reduction in domestic - maybe introduction of something like Moscow or Tel Aviv with 320's. One 330 (from ORD? rotation - leaving Caribbean) to move to LHR for Middle East routes.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Originally Posted by CaptJ
Is that not clear enough? It does not say that the decline in profitability of SK is due to British Midland. It says "The share of income from affiliated companies <snip> is primarily attributable to the negative earnings in British Midland" Could not be clearer.
Obviously it will struggle to make a profit this summer, as will almost every airline - but that is nothing to do with the SK investment issue.
Major schedule changes coming up for MME, LBA and JER to LHR and all of them will be operated by Embraers this winter. Jersey going onto a 135 with no morning JER-LHR flight is a particular sign that this route must be struggling.
Rumours for Summer 2009 that the MAN-LAS/Caribbean routes will be pulled and one A330 moved to Heathrow to cover some of the longer flying from there.
Rumours for Summer 2009 that the MAN-LAS/Caribbean routes will be pulled and one A330 moved to Heathrow to cover some of the longer flying from there.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I sthere just me appalled by the comment because they now has the slots and a businness plan that works at LHr they dont need to ooperate the flights from manchester.
Are we to assume you think manchester shouldnt have the flights it has then?
Are we to assume you think manchester shouldnt have the flights it has then?
Join Date: Apr 2006
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It was Mumbai...
BOM was the Indian route BMI tried out of LHR. This is turning into another thread very similar to the BA trhead when they announced they were pulling off MAN-JFK. If BMI can make more with the 330's at LHR good for them. It maybe key to their survival in the current market.
At the end of the day the routes ex MAN are primarily leisure routes; if they can get high yield business class pasengers from LHR to the back of beyond, they'd be stupid to kick a gift horse in the mouth.
In a ideal world where 3-4 330's could appear out of thin air, think both MAN and LHR would be good business options and not putting all one's eggs in one basket.
Until there are a enough people in the MAN catchment area prepared to spend £3-5,000 return for a business class seat on a longhaul route, that can achieve a high load factor, longhaul from MAN is impractical in the current economic climate.
At the end of the day the routes ex MAN are primarily leisure routes; if they can get high yield business class pasengers from LHR to the back of beyond, they'd be stupid to kick a gift horse in the mouth.
In a ideal world where 3-4 330's could appear out of thin air, think both MAN and LHR would be good business options and not putting all one's eggs in one basket.
Until there are a enough people in the MAN catchment area prepared to spend £3-5,000 return for a business class seat on a longhaul route, that can achieve a high load factor, longhaul from MAN is impractical in the current economic climate.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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While not disputing the fact that BMI's A330's could generate a greater revenue from LHR and there fore a potentially more profit, there are also other issues to take into consideration. There is far more competition at LHR than MAN, the more operators on a given route is surely going to reduce the amount of money it can make.
If it chooses to launch a route to a new destination with a airframe taken from MAN then it needs to be sure that it can make money on the route in a shorter period of time as possible. Added to which if it does not replace the Manchester based airframe then it has to fore go the revenue it generates and presumably that routes contributions to it's overall profits.
While not just a BMI issue higher yield front end services surely need to be offered from Manchester, if they are not then how are you going to grow the up take of both first and business class.
I seem to remember BMI announced a intention to ordered some five A330's in July 2007 what has happened to this order are they delayed or cancelled.
If it chooses to launch a route to a new destination with a airframe taken from MAN then it needs to be sure that it can make money on the route in a shorter period of time as possible. Added to which if it does not replace the Manchester based airframe then it has to fore go the revenue it generates and presumably that routes contributions to it's overall profits.
While not just a BMI issue higher yield front end services surely need to be offered from Manchester, if they are not then how are you going to grow the up take of both first and business class.
I seem to remember BMI announced a intention to ordered some five A330's in July 2007 what has happened to this order are they delayed or cancelled.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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bmi to ord contributed almost 10mill to bmi's profit margin last year
and whilst the las and car routes are not doing fantastic!, for bmi to start a new route ex lhr at this moment in time would be crazy!!!!
new route costs usually est at around 2mill so that would be an immed loss to bmi and then you will have the aircraft flying around empty for a good few months (even ex lhr). If bmi were to take one of the 330's back down to lhr the only place i could see it flying would be to Saudi.
Trust me i cant see it happening till at least oct09, if at all !
and whilst the las and car routes are not doing fantastic!, for bmi to start a new route ex lhr at this moment in time would be crazy!!!!
new route costs usually est at around 2mill so that would be an immed loss to bmi and then you will have the aircraft flying around empty for a good few months (even ex lhr). If bmi were to take one of the 330's back down to lhr the only place i could see it flying would be to Saudi.
Trust me i cant see it happening till at least oct09, if at all !
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Funny how some people don't want to remember how the BOM route went. Perhaps that's why some refer to it as a "no brainer"? Pretty sure I read that the A330 are being spruced up in J class due customer demand (apparently demanded by passengers that MAN doesn't have?!)
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bmi to ord contributed almost 10mill to bmi's profit margin last year
Join Date: Oct 2007
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BMI didnt go head-long into Transatlantic from Heathrow at the time
all the new Americans started up - for a reason - not because they
couldnt source frames!
After looking at the American ops from Heathrow in the past six months, to gauge the profitability of possibly starting some routes,
they may have realised that routes elsewhere may need looking at?
The slots they hold at Heathrow are not going anywhere.
Or maybe the puppet master has pulled a string or two.........
MM
all the new Americans started up - for a reason - not because they
couldnt source frames!
After looking at the American ops from Heathrow in the past six months, to gauge the profitability of possibly starting some routes,
they may have realised that routes elsewhere may need looking at?
The slots they hold at Heathrow are not going anywhere.
Or maybe the puppet master has pulled a string or two.........
MM
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Everyone is going on about all the slots bmi have!Have you all forgotten the 55 slot pairs that have to be handed back to BA as part of the BMed deal.
Some routes will have to go first before any can be added.....
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I have heard from a mate in planning at BA that they are thinking of leasing the slots to BD for winter 08/09 and possibly summer09 until new aircraft come into the BA fleets or until the fuel price drops and the economy picks up.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Rumours Of A Big Announcement On Monday?? Follow On From Announcement Last Week Of Termination Of Two Midhaul Routes For Winter - Ankara And Ekatinberg. Most Probally With Reference To Either Regional Or Mainline Routes!! Any one any goss???