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Ghost flights

Old 14th Nov 2007, 12:41
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I bet the "no cabin crew" wheeze has given Ryanair an idea though...
You watch, turn up at Stansted in a couple of months and the galley area will have coffee and sweetie vending machines.

Just think of the increased "revenues" to be made by laying off allthe c/c!
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Old 14th Nov 2007, 13:04
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Well, if it was just for the slots, BA could have an operator doing a daily EMA-LHR run with a Shed instead of flying a 747 across the pond. I seem to remember that Virgin exactly did that at LGW and used a small operator to keep its slots warm by flying EXT-LGW.

So apparently these ghost flights are indeed more some kind of postioning flight as the return flights can be crewed as planned in the US.
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Old 14th Nov 2007, 14:46
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Ghost flights - apt and nearly true.... many BA flights on LHR movements as part of the T5 readiness program, so they have to run "live" but not actual flights to test the new systems. Or so I was told.....
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 07:38
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Post 'Ghost flights' and fake passengers for crisis airlines

Planes ‘fly empty’ to keep slots at Heathrow

Britain’s third-largest airline, bmi, will fly near-empty aircraft while Flybe has advertised for actors to take its seats

Last edited by heli_port; 16th Jul 2008 at 08:46.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 08:10
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The airport co-ordination slots team states that you must operate 80% of your alotted slots or risk losing them. It was predicted that there would be a 20% cutback so it appears to me that there is perhaps not as much panic as some thought. BA's AGM yesterday has reported a similar situation 'not cutting back on to many services'? The real issue here is just what happens with the bookings as we get well into the winter season.

Apart from all this once again to fly a/c almost empty for the sake of the slot reflects the stupudity of our industry and its total lack of flexibility. Airlines should be at least able to retain slots for a period despite canx services (perhaps the complete season).
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 08:36
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wow, crazy read.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 09:13
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Let's just hope.............

They all have the idea to charter a t/prop..........................

Have the airports got wise to that scam yet, or are we gonna see another A320 day-stop in CWL daily just to keep the slots?


Bored
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 09:22
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Peter Morrisroe, the managing director of Airport Coordination, the company that is responsible for the allocation of slots at British airports, said: “If an airline wants to retain the rights to its slots, it is essential it complies with the use-it-or-lose-it rule.”
With inflexible, do it my way or else bureaucrats like this in the industry, who needs enemies ?

It's like saying that if Asda find a downturn and don't use an aisle in the supermarket, it has to be offered up to Tesco or Sainsbury to use. And they would never get it back.

Every Heathrow user would love unrequired flights to be eliminated. Think of the reduction in holding.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 09:27
  #29 (permalink)  
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add quote

A quiet news day. I recall this story appearing twice in the last year - if not more. My guess is that the problem stems from the deliberately confused way that slots are dealt with in the post privatisation of the UK airline world.

Amusingly, this paragraph is from near the end of The Times article:
BMI, which operates 1,700 flights per week over a network of 36 airports, later confirmed that it would not be operating “empty” flights in order to protect Heathrow slots.
So - does that mean that the headline is just there to grab attention and that it's all hot air? Surely not.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 09:45
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The inflexability does seem economically stupid - lets not forget the winter peaks in Christmas & the new Year. BMI might use their ERJ's - and how about those Flybe ex Bacon ER's that are comming to the end of their lease's - Is it possible to statisticly predict demand during the lighter demand Mid day / afternoon periods and operate a pool system for A/C - The competition is best fundamentalists would not like it - tough ! - Peops get their freq of service and less fuel is burned.
Life in the ERJ's yet ? perhaps - I know about crewing validation probs as an igorant SLF,but some idea's please.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 09:45
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At the bottom of the article it quotes figures from the Times Database. They state the cost of a flight LHR to EDI as £60,000! Surely not right as for a 100 seat jet that's still £600 a seat for a 50 minute flight. No wonder this is such a pants business to be in.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 09:49
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I once saw an article in the Gruniad that used a 747 cost as the basis of costs Lon to Prague - NB the jurno's would not know the context of how types are operated on a given route.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 12:40
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Well, FlyBE's been known to have wanted to use actors before... it caused a furore the last time I remember.

One airline ran a daily empty service between LHR and CWL for a while to keep its slots at LHR.

S.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 12:56
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All this b*llocks - in an Airport that's already overstretched. Whats wrong with the airlines paying a retainer for the slots, for say a maximum of one season? Cheaper than flying fresh air around, less aircraft (one hopes = less delays) plus it would keep the greens happy. Never happen though! Why?. Because empty aircraft have no passengers on board who spend money in the terminal!
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 16:13
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BBC NEWS | UK | Airline denies 'ghost' plane plan

here is the link to the BBC story on this once again the media has twisted the story to suit.

And as for the green argument in the times. Please give it a rest when China, USA and India turn green I will stop flying on domestic flights and take the bus to heathrow but until then its called car and a flight between LHR - EDI.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 17:01
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pay retainer for slots

Interesting concept.

who would you propose the retainer is paid to?

Airports would love this as they currently get nothing from slot trading.
This is all done between airlines.

Government would also love it, but the runway is not theirs to charge for the slot.

slot co-ordinators can't take it as that is an effective bribe and breaks all their rules.

the whole system is a joke.
the owners of the runway who pay for it's upkeep get very little say in the matter. maybe the system should be reviewed.
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Old 16th Jul 2008, 21:58
  #37 (permalink)  
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Please be careful in what you say Dragon tracker, as it sounds like you are dangerously close to talking common sense.

But you know very well that a plain, open and fair system of slot trading - where all parties can feel that they are well served by the process - is not possible as it would simply not be British. So, do pipe down, otherwise, we'll have to send the men in the Land-Rover and you know what that means ...
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Old 17th Jul 2008, 13:09
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Paxboy, I'm with you on the green issues. It's just that other people seem to lap it up so why not use it as a marketing tool to get results?

Like you said, in todays "Great" Briton. who needs common sense!
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Old 17th Jul 2008, 13:48
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"a plain, open and fair system of slot trading ... is not possible as it would simply not be British."

And might not be legally riggable to sufficiently protect a certain Big Airline as the current one does...
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