UK Regional Domestic Airline - Feedback Pls?
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UK Regional Domestic Airline - Feedback Pls?
Hi,
Would a UK-based regional/domestic only airline servce be possible?
I realise there may be alot of logistical hurdles to overcome, not to mention regulations & red-tape that would perhaps prevent this from becoming a profitable reality, but I do believe the UK would benefit from it, so would it be worth some brave individual having a go!?
The nations roads are crap and will only ever get worse, not to mention more and more costly (If the governent had their way). There are a massive amount of ex-military airstrips throughout the UK all being near popular large and small towns, which are becoming ever-more populated. They are currently redundant or used for recreation - would a no frills, airline using twin props with up to 20 seats be able to operate with minimum fuss from them?
Would love some feedback, on all levels so work out whether it's just a pipe dream.
DB777
Would a UK-based regional/domestic only airline servce be possible?
I realise there may be alot of logistical hurdles to overcome, not to mention regulations & red-tape that would perhaps prevent this from becoming a profitable reality, but I do believe the UK would benefit from it, so would it be worth some brave individual having a go!?
The nations roads are crap and will only ever get worse, not to mention more and more costly (If the governent had their way). There are a massive amount of ex-military airstrips throughout the UK all being near popular large and small towns, which are becoming ever-more populated. They are currently redundant or used for recreation - would a no frills, airline using twin props with up to 20 seats be able to operate with minimum fuss from them?
Would love some feedback, on all levels so work out whether it's just a pipe dream.
DB777
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Kind of, but even smaller in operational terms.
A few months ago I visited a local Parachute jump centre. They operated 2 GAF Nomad's that are constantly up and down, refuled and quickly checked, loaded then back up again, they look ultra efficient and very little fuss.
I watched this alone, time after time, i'm sure they had procedures and systems to ensure the safe execution of every cycle but it worked fluidly - the ac was only on the ground minimum time.
Obviously with longer routes between 2 destination would require more ground time and prep, but the operation seemed not to require a major airport with all the facilities, and why not? Because a domestic airline wouldn't need as many amenities & systems would it?
Would people, just wanting to hop between to major towns on a 20 - 40 min journey, want the fuss of waiting around 2hrs for the pleasure of it!? Apart from security, (and at what level?) what would stop someone driving 2, 3, 4miles to their local airstrip, parking, showing their e-ticket to a small group of individuals at the desk, going through the security, and going airside to either wait a short time for a plane or boarding it straight way?
I am sounding very niave I know, so please, someone put me straight - shoot me down, let the usual sarcasm and patrionising begin!
A few months ago I visited a local Parachute jump centre. They operated 2 GAF Nomad's that are constantly up and down, refuled and quickly checked, loaded then back up again, they look ultra efficient and very little fuss.
I watched this alone, time after time, i'm sure they had procedures and systems to ensure the safe execution of every cycle but it worked fluidly - the ac was only on the ground minimum time.
Obviously with longer routes between 2 destination would require more ground time and prep, but the operation seemed not to require a major airport with all the facilities, and why not? Because a domestic airline wouldn't need as many amenities & systems would it?
Would people, just wanting to hop between to major towns on a 20 - 40 min journey, want the fuss of waiting around 2hrs for the pleasure of it!? Apart from security, (and at what level?) what would stop someone driving 2, 3, 4miles to their local airstrip, parking, showing their e-ticket to a small group of individuals at the desk, going through the security, and going airside to either wait a short time for a plane or boarding it straight way?
I am sounding very niave I know, so please, someone put me straight - shoot me down, let the usual sarcasm and patrionising begin!
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Certainly no one should put you down by asking a perfectly reasonable question. My personal view is that there is demand but with the small aircraft the direct operating costs would be so high that even with reasonable yield from tickets the break even load factor would have to be 90% and more. The operational costs involved with a short distance operation are no different from other models but the critical mass to make this model succeed would need a larger type and that brings with it the question of demand. This is a well trodden path but have a look at the figures yourself. It is an interesting exercise.
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Sounds a very interesting concept but I have a feeling that because paying passengers are involved the Health and Safety and other miriad red tape issues involved would make the exercise a non starter. Maybe it could work as a kind of Air Taxi operation.
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As a purely intellectual exercise, a long, long time ago (when I still had a pure intellect), I imagined a UK domestic hub-and-spoke operation aligned South/North, linking smaller airports in the South and Southwest with Newcastle, Belfast, Glasgow etc – seven destinations either side of the hub, which I thought should be Coventry, because of its location and because it could be the source of some origin/destination traffic. Aircraft would be 20-seaters.
The pattern was simple, leave the origin airport at about 06:45, transit the hub in a 20-minute window about an hour later and arrive at destination around 09:30 – 09:45. Repeat in reverse around midday, then repeat the whole pattern in the afternoon/evening with the returning southbounds ideally timed for the end of the business day.
I envisaged a dead-simple fare structure – one price for a ‘short’ sector South of the hub, one for a ‘long’ sector and one for a two-sector journey, priced in between first-class and second-class rail. I also envisaged some innovative frills, an aim would be to develop a strong brand and customer loyalty.
I didn’t bother going deeply into the cost side, although it was clear that the planned pattern gave an impressive aircraft utilisation. However a few back-of-an-envelope calculations showed that on the revenues alone I’d never get rich.
Mostly, though, I identified a number of huge drawbacks. Firstly, the operation was incredibly vulnerable to disruption since it was so reliant on transfer traffic at the hub. Early morning fog, or a tech problem, at any one of my departure airports, would really screw everything up. Secondly, while the timings for the morning northbounds and the evening southbounds were commercially extremely attractive, the other half of the programme would be very poorly patronised. And thirdly – this one I really couldn’t get my head around – how to run a daily operation with seven crews, each one of which had overnighted in a different city?
The pattern was simple, leave the origin airport at about 06:45, transit the hub in a 20-minute window about an hour later and arrive at destination around 09:30 – 09:45. Repeat in reverse around midday, then repeat the whole pattern in the afternoon/evening with the returning southbounds ideally timed for the end of the business day.
I envisaged a dead-simple fare structure – one price for a ‘short’ sector South of the hub, one for a ‘long’ sector and one for a two-sector journey, priced in between first-class and second-class rail. I also envisaged some innovative frills, an aim would be to develop a strong brand and customer loyalty.
I didn’t bother going deeply into the cost side, although it was clear that the planned pattern gave an impressive aircraft utilisation. However a few back-of-an-envelope calculations showed that on the revenues alone I’d never get rich.
Mostly, though, I identified a number of huge drawbacks. Firstly, the operation was incredibly vulnerable to disruption since it was so reliant on transfer traffic at the hub. Early morning fog, or a tech problem, at any one of my departure airports, would really screw everything up. Secondly, while the timings for the morning northbounds and the evening southbounds were commercially extremely attractive, the other half of the programme would be very poorly patronised. And thirdly – this one I really couldn’t get my head around – how to run a daily operation with seven crews, each one of which had overnighted in a different city?
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Air Taxi, Shuttle bus type op.
Maybe set fee's - although obviously that would be, well, low yield to say the least.
The concept, in all I think would be a very 'everyday' option as opposed to what we have now. Could even work as a feeder service for LCCs at airports located near more infromal airstrips.
Maybe set fee's - although obviously that would be, well, low yield to say the least.
The concept, in all I think would be a very 'everyday' option as opposed to what we have now. Could even work as a feeder service for LCCs at airports located near more infromal airstrips.
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Didn't Dan-Air do something they called a "bus-stop" operation years ago. I think from Bournemouth up to Glasgow with intermediate stops i.e. Cardiff, Newcastle and others?
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DB777:
It's a perfectly good question, and as sanook says, doing the costings is a very interesting exercise.
As an inaccurate ballpark starting point just to give you a rough idea, I've plugged some assumptions into the commercial software I use for this kind of thing. I took BRS-MAN as a sector, not because it's a feasible route for this, but because it seemed a reasonable average sector length. I used a Jetstream 31 with 18 seats (low capital costs etc.) and I got total fixed costs per one-way sector of about £900 (that's the cost just to crew and fuel the plane and put it in the air - it doesn't include per-passenger costs, nor does it include marketing, sales, distribution, etc. etc.).
I would also note in passing that there are very large costs associated with starting an airline from scratch - in the absence of very deep pockets, the easier way to go, at least at first, is to wet-lease an aircraft from an existing AOC holder.
C.
It's a perfectly good question, and as sanook says, doing the costings is a very interesting exercise.
As an inaccurate ballpark starting point just to give you a rough idea, I've plugged some assumptions into the commercial software I use for this kind of thing. I took BRS-MAN as a sector, not because it's a feasible route for this, but because it seemed a reasonable average sector length. I used a Jetstream 31 with 18 seats (low capital costs etc.) and I got total fixed costs per one-way sector of about £900 (that's the cost just to crew and fuel the plane and put it in the air - it doesn't include per-passenger costs, nor does it include marketing, sales, distribution, etc. etc.).
I would also note in passing that there are very large costs associated with starting an airline from scratch - in the absence of very deep pockets, the easier way to go, at least at first, is to wet-lease an aircraft from an existing AOC holder.
C.
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Sorry, but it's been muted many times before. It usually ends in tears.
I'll give you a tip.
Do some marketing (it takes money) and decide where, what and why a service is needed, and with what equipment. Employ an accountant to make a business plan. Get the funds in place, depending on the aircraft, £3-5m will do it. Then of you go!
Simple! No it isn't and your questions are therefore not able to be answered here.
But.......if you are doing a degree and you are phishing................well!
Btw, I have done it - TWICE!
I'll give you a tip.
Do some marketing (it takes money) and decide where, what and why a service is needed, and with what equipment. Employ an accountant to make a business plan. Get the funds in place, depending on the aircraft, £3-5m will do it. Then of you go!
Simple! No it isn't and your questions are therefore not able to be answered here.
But.......if you are doing a degree and you are phishing................well!
Btw, I have done it - TWICE!
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Basically, I think i'm just gonna start a paper airline, brand & market it using all the free avenues, create a website asking for honest feedback, see what interest comes from that! I can do that for free so will get my audience to create a refined business plan then wait for a strong investor - maybe a que-bored business person, keen on aviation, who like to see something begin.
Anyone know Richard Bransons Mob number?
Now, how about names?
- Feedair
- Full circle airlines (bit of a contridiction!!!)
Anyone know Richard Bransons Mob number?
Now, how about names?
- Feedair
- Full circle airlines (bit of a contridiction!!!)
