MANSTON - 4
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kent
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"As I'm sure you're aware, Manston is covered by a legal agreement with the local Council, which applies punitive financial penalties to movements between 23:00 and 07:00. Pray tell us how they are going to build to 24hrs a day."
Yet again you are quite correct !!
However, you seem a little confused
- i said that they were looking to build through the night ( 24 hour operation )
This does not mean than any aircraft would be operating outside of the opening hours.
Freight turns up at many times during the day and night sometimes, and to allow this freight to be built into outbound loads takes many hours.
With the increase from inbound and outbound cargo, it makes more sense to allow this activity to happen through the night, rather than having it wait for day staff to turn up for work and fit it in around aircraft turn-arounds.
I hope this clears up any confusion
Yet again you are quite correct !!
However, you seem a little confused
- i said that they were looking to build through the night ( 24 hour operation )This does not mean than any aircraft would be operating outside of the opening hours.
Freight turns up at many times during the day and night sometimes, and to allow this freight to be built into outbound loads takes many hours.
With the increase from inbound and outbound cargo, it makes more sense to allow this activity to happen through the night, rather than having it wait for day staff to turn up for work and fit it in around aircraft turn-arounds.
I hope this clears up any confusion
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi fj1
The agreement is most certainly binding on Infratil. I can't remember the exact wording, but it bound the original signatories and anyone who subsequently owned the airport. I think the acid test will be the night flights that took place in the run-up to Christmas. By my reckoning there must be at least £10,000 of fines to be paid. It could be a lot more. If Infratil pay these fines it will prove they accept the agreement to be binding on them.
The agreement is most certainly binding on Infratil. I can't remember the exact wording, but it bound the original signatories and anyone who subsequently owned the airport. I think the acid test will be the night flights that took place in the run-up to Christmas. By my reckoning there must be at least £10,000 of fines to be paid. It could be a lot more. If Infratil pay these fines it will prove they accept the agreement to be binding on them.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Herne Bay
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"10 additional ramp staff are being sought at the moment to allow freight to be built 24 hrs a day."
To allow freight to be built.
what has that got to do with taking off and landing at night. Is the fact that staff will be working nights at the airport a problem ?
To allow freight to be built.
what has that got to do with taking off and landing at night. Is the fact that staff will be working nights at the airport a problem ?
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There's nothing to stop staff working at the airport at night. However, I can't see the need to employ more staff unless additional business is on the cards. As I haven't seen an MK in the last week, I'd have to say that things are looking decidedly quiet.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Catflaps said "As I haven't seen an MK in the last week, I'd have to say that things are looking decidedly quiet."
Monday29th An12 with freight
Tuesday 30th MK with freight
Wednesday 31st MK and Egyptair both with freight
Friday 2nd Egyptair with freight
Today MK with freight
It seems you must have driven through on Thursday and today
And before you ask, these weren't the only movements this week, they are just the freight ones.
Also as has been said, building up loads overnight etc makes it a much easier and quicker task to load the aircraft when they come in.
Monday29th An12 with freight
Tuesday 30th MK with freight
Wednesday 31st MK and Egyptair both with freight
Friday 2nd Egyptair with freight
Today MK with freight
It seems you must have driven through on Thursday and today
And before you ask, these weren't the only movements this week, they are just the freight ones.
Also as has been said, building up loads overnight etc makes it a much easier and quicker task to load the aircraft when they come in.
Last edited by Twitcher; 4th Feb 2007 at 19:31. Reason: missed out some info
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Small private charter jets regularly carry in a few people at a time, technically these are passenger movements on a small scale. Here are examples.
Monday 29th 2 x private jet
Tuesday 30th 2 x private jet
Also,
Wednesday 31st airline circuit training
Saturday 3rd airline circuit training
These airlines just fly around in circuits but on each 'lap' they touch down, for doing this Manston charge a fee, This then earns revenue to the airport, a phrase you're not keen to hear.
Monday 29th 2 x private jet
Tuesday 30th 2 x private jet
Also,
Wednesday 31st airline circuit training
Saturday 3rd airline circuit training
These airlines just fly around in circuits but on each 'lap' they touch down, for doing this Manston charge a fee, This then earns revenue to the airport, a phrase you're not keen to hear.
Last edited by Twitcher; 4th Feb 2007 at 21:07.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote From New Zealand Herald
"Infratil shares are not cheap, and have never looked cheap," says McEwen. "But its strategy of focusing on long-term growth sectors like energy and airport assets is proving a good one as these are highly sought after sectors and, when managed well, highly profitable."
Infratil are always saying that they are in for the long haul an dthis quote from analysts in NZ seems to back them up.
Hopefully this strategy will apply at MSE and in the long run jobs can be created for East Kent and in particular Thanet.
MDIS
Infratil are always saying that they are in for the long haul an dthis quote from analysts in NZ seems to back them up.
Hopefully this strategy will apply at MSE and in the long run jobs can be created for East Kent and in particular Thanet.
MDIS
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the ADVFN noticeboard a couple of years ago somone asked about training circuit revenue.
There was a reply from someone who reckoned they were "in the know" who said it was a faily nominal amount, stating "I find it hard to get excited about training bumps - I doubt if it even pays for one ATC."
There was a reply from someone who reckoned they were "in the know" who said it was a faily nominal amount, stating "I find it hard to get excited about training bumps - I doubt if it even pays for one ATC."
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Training Flight Revenue
The amount is irrelevant, it is all money EARNT that they wouldn't have had if those aircraft didn't use the airport.The air traffic controller was there already, so it cost nowt extra for Manston to do.
Your comments were a perfect example of having to knock everything that is said in support of the airport
Your comments were a perfect example of having to knock everything that is said in support of the airport
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 36
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I saw the Oasis 744 on saturday look great doing touch & goes on rwy 10 I think at MSE.Comes into MSE quite alot after its flight from hong kong to LGW. Any news on BMed doing cargo flights or is that old news now wonder what will happen with BMI now the new owners of BMed.Hope DAS get the come back 
james
wonder what will happen with BMI now the new owners of BMed.Hope DAS get the come back james
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Twitcher-
Your posts today and 4 Feb contain personal attacks, albeit mild ones, which the moderators have specifically instructed us not to do.
Such comments are in breach of posting guidelines, and contribute nothing to the material facts of the discussion.
Although your comments were mild, such things have a habit of escalating, and I would not wish to see you banned from the forum.
Lets stick to discussing the airport, rather than questioning another member's right to hold a particular point of view.
Your posts today and 4 Feb contain personal attacks, albeit mild ones, which the moderators have specifically instructed us not to do.
Such comments are in breach of posting guidelines, and contribute nothing to the material facts of the discussion.
Although your comments were mild, such things have a habit of escalating, and I would not wish to see you banned from the forum.
Lets stick to discussing the airport, rather than questioning another member's right to hold a particular point of view.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Posted by Twitcher:
"The amount is irrelevant"
I beg to differ. If the amount of revenue being raised by the airport is too little it will go bust. There is good an substantive evidence to support this thesis. It's happened before.
"The amount is irrelevant"
I beg to differ. If the amount of revenue being raised by the airport is too little it will go bust. There is good an substantive evidence to support this thesis. It's happened before.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
26th January, AN26 operated by RAF Avia of Latvia departed for Ostend carrying engine parts for MK Airlines jet plane on the tarmac at Ostend. Which MK are we talking about?
Whose is the 747 with a blue tail fin which has landed today ? This Blue tailed bird has been in few times over the past two weeks?
Whose is the 747 with a blue tail fin which has landed today ? This Blue tailed bird has been in few times over the past two weeks?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'blue tailed bird' is an MK machine.
As for the amount being irrelevant, I was just pointing out that even if just £1000 was generated it is more than the airport would have got if the aircraft hadn't used the facility. It isn't enough to run the airport on I agree, but each of these small amounts added up make a difference.
As for the amount being irrelevant, I was just pointing out that even if just £1000 was generated it is more than the airport would have got if the aircraft hadn't used the facility. It isn't enough to run the airport on I agree, but each of these small amounts added up make a difference.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Catflaps
The engine parts for the MK was only a replacement engine cowl for an aircraft in Africa. The part was taken from MSE to OST and then went on another MK to Africa.
MK over the weekend should have gone from MSE to Brize and on to Basra but they used a different aircraft due to the late arrival of the originally scheduled one from Cairo.
The blue tail was 9G-MGU an MK going to NBO.
I think Twitcher is saying that all revenue is important and as long as it doesn't incur additional cost it will reduce the current losses. It could be said that £1000 is a drop in the ocean but it all helps.
MDIS
The engine parts for the MK was only a replacement engine cowl for an aircraft in Africa. The part was taken from MSE to OST and then went on another MK to Africa.
MK over the weekend should have gone from MSE to Brize and on to Basra but they used a different aircraft due to the late arrival of the originally scheduled one from Cairo.
The blue tail was 9G-MGU an MK going to NBO.
I think Twitcher is saying that all revenue is important and as long as it doesn't incur additional cost it will reduce the current losses. It could be said that £1000 is a drop in the ocean but it all helps.
MDIS
Last edited by MDIS; 7th Feb 2007 at 07:23.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ramsgate, Kent
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"..even if just £1000 was generated it is more than the airport would have got if the aircraft hadn't used the facility."
If you have a fully-equipped airport handling many flights per day this would of course be true. However, if you have a handful of flights per day the economic analysis changes. You are having to provide fire and rescue services, air-traffic control, customs, security, ground-staff etc. etc. All of this is costing you money. The longer you are open for each day the more it costs you.
Consequently, the cost to you of providing facilities to accept that one flight far exceed the revenue you obtain from it. Far better to close down and divert the one flight somewhere else. Perhaps you could persuade the proper airports to pay you a finders fee every time you send them a plane.
If you have a fully-equipped airport handling many flights per day this would of course be true. However, if you have a handful of flights per day the economic analysis changes. You are having to provide fire and rescue services, air-traffic control, customs, security, ground-staff etc. etc. All of this is costing you money. The longer you are open for each day the more it costs you.
Consequently, the cost to you of providing facilities to accept that one flight far exceed the revenue you obtain from it. Far better to close down and divert the one flight somewhere else. Perhaps you could persuade the proper airports to pay you a finders fee every time you send them a plane.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the day in question there were a further 48 aircraft movements (takeoffs, landings, internal flights etc). These were all between the hours of 10:12 am and 4:34pm. Therefore the airport was busy enough to justify having all the required services (atc, fire etc) in attendance on the day. The 747 doing training was a bonus.
If the airport was kept closed on quiet days to save money, no doubt somebody would chip in that there could be a missed opportunity in the event there was problem at a major airport nearby and Manston could not take any diversions.
Anyway on another note I shall take the bait no longer from now on and will keep my fingers away from the keyboard in response to certain types of posts from users that are just made to stir up reaction.
If the airport was kept closed on quiet days to save money, no doubt somebody would chip in that there could be a missed opportunity in the event there was problem at a major airport nearby and Manston could not take any diversions.
Anyway on another note I shall take the bait no longer from now on and will keep my fingers away from the keyboard in response to certain types of posts from users that are just made to stir up reaction.
Last edited by Twitcher; 8th Feb 2007 at 15:34. Reason: ammended a word