Aer Lingus - 3

[gaelgeoir]

Originally Posted by 840

If Dublin is to be turned into a hub, it will be one for passengers heading from Europe to the US and Canada, so the sooner the bilateral can be sorted out, the better.

Dublin will never be a hub, given that its terminal layout doesn't meet the minimum requirements for connecting passengers and that its only based carrier with long haul equipment- Aer Lingus, is rapidly becoming a point-to-point operator, with no strategy in place to co-ordinate long haul/short haul schedules.

Shannon does have a suitable terminal layout but is unlikely to attract a based carrier.

[akerosid]

Originally Posted by gaelgeoir

Regarding the possibility of Aer Lingus opening up three additional U.S. routes as per the interim bilateral deal negotiated last year, I've just seen a statement by an Irish M.E.P (Jim Higgins) quoting a letter to him from Transport Commissioner Barrot. It states that the 18-month transitional period (during which these routes may commence) begins "as and from the date that full agreement has been reached and Open Skies is in operation."

This indicates that Ireland-U.S. Open Skies will commence 18 months later than Europe-U.S. Open Skies. It also seems to me that there's no way Aer Lingus can plan for the opening of the three additional gateways until Europe-U.S. Open Skies is in place, which realistically precludes any new route launch before 2008 at the earliest. What a shambles by the Irish administration!

It is a disaster, but I am not quite sure that M. Barrot's word is
final; first of all, while the EU had a part in this deal (insofar as it
had a Community air clause included), it was still a deal between
Ireland and the US and one of these bilateral parties can revoke the
deal, if it so wished. Theoretically, if the Americans agreed (and I can't see the objecting), the Irish govt could say, "well, sod the side deal, we're going to full O/S from Day One".

I think that the current position is that the EU and US are going all
out to get a deal done by June (and it may well be done by next month),
so we may well have a deal by the Summer, BUT if that isn't done and the
obstacle to a deal turns out to be something that was demanded
(unreasonably) by the US - say cabotage, for example - and as a result
of this, our ability to access new routes was effectively sabotaged by
the EU as a result of its unreasonable demands, what then?

However, if the deal is done in June, the likelihood is that the
transitional period would start in November and we'd go back to 3:1 for
next Summer. In practical terms, this might be better, because with the
state DUB is likely to be in next Summer, I can't see it being able to
accommodate a huge influx of new t/a flights.

You can see how EI is vexed and finds it very hard to predict exactly when it can access new markets. However, the likelihood that new carriers like Fly Asia Express and Jetstar will serve DUB at some point makes it imperative that EI looks further east. It needs to flesh out what it sees a long haul low cost operation looking like; is it necessarily wise to be "just another full service carrier", to add to the dozens already flying the route.

HOWEVER, in preparation for this, thinking has to go into aircraft type in the short term. Flying to Asia (and particularly back) is a big undertaking; BKK-LHR on a 747 is around 12h40; on a 330 to DUB, you'd be talking about 14hrs; doable, with a decent load - particularly in a long haul low cost configuration? I doubt it (EI insiders can put me right on this). So, what's the alternative? A340 wouldn't make it out of DUB; perhaps the 777 could make it to BKK, but at pretty much full welly - but do they want a mixed fleet. An A330 could do it one-stop, but what's the point in that (yes, I know Fly Air Asia is going to do that - but that's their problem)?

(One solution would be to lengthen the runway, of course; logical answer, but unlikely to happen; interest isn't there at govt level or DAA level).

[blaggerman]

Originally Posted by 840

If Dublin is to be turned into a hub, it will be one for passengers heading from Europe to the US and Canada

An interesting aside: if EI want to avail of the proposed US customs pre-clearance facility, then connecting passengers would need to collect and recheck their bags in Dublin so that they can clear US customs. That would not make a very attractive proposition for connecting passengers... as if connecting in Dublin would have any attractions anyway

[johnrizzo2000]

Well passengers who arrive in the US, have to collect their bags and put them onto a transfer belt, at their first point of entry in the United States. Having to do this in Dublin cant be that much hastle, if a transfer belt was organised!!!!

[akerosid]

FR has another go at EI:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/18012007/214...er-lingus.html

This time, it's fuel surcharges; I guess they have a point, given that jet fuel has come down about $20 since the surcharges were introduced.

Incidentally, DM is speaking at UCC tonight, so with any luck, he might spill a few beans and answer a few questions ...

[akerosid]

EI and Asia

Just thinking about the prospects for EI and Asia. With Fly Asia Express starting next year (and likely to consider DUB) and Jetstar, likewise, when it gets its 787, the sooner EI does this, the better. However, it seems to me that EI is in a bit of a quandary:

- The A332 shouldn't have any problem getting from DUB to either HKG or BKK, but getting back will be difficult, with a decent load. HKG, from a pax/ cargo feed point of view is preferable and HKG-DUB is shorter than BKK-DUB, which will have problems with the Himalayas, Indian ATC and the fact that (based on BKK-LHR, which is around 12h40 on a BA 744) it will be close to 14h - too long for a 332.

- The 777 is an interesting option; it certainly wouldn't have any problem coming back from Asia, but based on the understanding that DL had some payload limitations with 777s when it operated from DUB, that may cause problems.

- The A340 is out. Runway length at DUB just won't allow it.

So, what then? Highest possible thrust rated A332 (-203X) and hope for the best? However, as a new carrier to Asia, the last thing EI wants to be doing is offloading pax on a regular basis and cargo out of HKG should be a pretty lucrative business. The 777 would probably be a more suitable aircraft, if the DAA could be persuaded to add a few hundred feet (i.e. 1300') to 10/28. Unlikely (indeed, as unlikely as 777s).

The thing is, EI has been talking about doing Asia for how long now? Four years? The business is definitely there, particularly with the stresses of having to fly through LHR (not to mention the extra taxes); if EI is to do this, however, it needs to get it right. Get the scheduling right, pick the right aircraft, have a consistent service standard (e.g. modern IFE on all aircraft), interline agreements; "one chance to make a good first impression" ...

Just thinking out loud on a wet, windy and miserable Friday evening ...

[johnrizzo2000]

Well, either way, they need to kick it into gear!!!! They badly need to upgrade their J cabin, and with FR going after them at DUB, they need to expand into the more profitable Long haul routes. DL has put J on their DUB-JFK routes, and CO will increase the number of J seats on its flights to Newark from May, so competition for the premium fliers is intensifying!!!

[akerosid]

In fairness, a new J Class is imminent; I understand one of the 330s has gone to Filton to be refitted. The new J Class will have flatbeds, AVOD and will be a considerable improvement on the current product.

[johnrizzo2000]

Oh, thats a surprise, and good news!!! I may actually try AerLingus J sometime, if thats the case!!!

[akerosid]

The A330s that have gone to the UK are actually there for repainting; the cabin mods will be done by SR Technics in Dublin.

Interestingly, in addition to the new J Class and PTV in Economy, crew rest areas are being fitted to the 332s (and the new 332 will have this too). That's a pretty good indication that the airline is looking at introducing some long haul route later this year (even though it will also be welcomed by crews on the LAX route!).

[apaddyinuk]

Lame question I am afraid.

Do any of you know if the new J class flatbeds are actually "Flat" beds or angled???

[EI-SHN]

The new beds will be " angled". However much a developement the new seats will be, i think that EI could have done better. I think they should have gone for a wider seat. Sure the new one will become wider by two inches in sleeper mode, but in seat position it could have been wider. But i think the best thing for EI to have chosen would be the Iberia Business Plus seat. Almost fully flat ( less angled than others) wider than new seat and only needs a 60 inch seat pitch and has been receiving praise for comfort. But i think EI will do something great and will be sufficient enough for the time being. Besides with the great staff, it should still be a pleasant experience.

[akerosid]

Which is more than you can ever say about flying with Iberia!

I see that there is talk in some of the papers about the possibility that the EU might force FR to sell off its shareholding in EI. I'm just wondering if that would necessarily be a good thing. For a start, it's a big chunk of the airline, but more seriously, the fact that FR has a holding in EI means it's less likely to turn the heat full on in competing against EI; if it didn't have that holding, what reason would it have to hold back? And that being the case, who would want to buy shares in EI in the knowledge that FR could launch a very aggressive attack on it? In other words, while I'm glad FR won't be gaining control of EI, I think the fact that it has a significant minority shareholding can act as an insurance policy for EI.

[akerosid]

Fasten your seat belts ...

Turbulence ahead over cost cutting plans:

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=15153

[akerosid]

So far, they've only mentioned the reduction in overtime and holidays; what other changes is he looking for?

[ryan2000]

Cork

Anything in it about the hotel arrangements for Cork based crews.

[akerosid]

Presumably, if agreement is reached on the changes EI wants to make, we might see some significant announcements in March?

[EI-SHN]

Deal may offer one stop flight to Australia

January 25, 2007 11:27
A deal by an airline based in the Middle East is expected to cut journey times on flights to Australia.
The United Arab Emirates national airline Etihad Airways may press ahead with plans to fly from Dublin to Abu Dhabi, offering onward connections to the Middle East and Australia.
If the deal goes ahead, passengers would make one stop off in Abu Dhabi, cut hours off their journey.
Etihad Airways spokesman Ian Burns says the airline is still doing the number crunching on the new route.
He says that the airline hopes to make an announcement in a few weeks and he believes there is huge growth in the market.
Aer Lingus already has a "one-stop" trip to Australia - with a stop at Dubai and onwards.

If the new deal goes ahead Irish passengers will also be able to make onward connections from the United Arab Emirates to the Philippines, Singapore and Malaysia.
The potential deal follows contacts between the airline and Taoiseach Bertie Ahern last week while he was on a trade mission to the Middle East.
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Well I think that Aer Lingus should have marketed the fact that passengers can travel to the Oceanic region with only one stop already i.e. Ireland to LAX to Australia/ New Zealand. With codeshares with QF this could have easily been done ( even codeshare with NZ). The only problem with this is the Americans " no transit here" rule, so unless you leave the gate area you have to clear customs, however on a flight from Ireland this can be cleared in DUB.
However as is typocal with EI the dont bother their holes to do anything about that and they lose out.

[waffler]

Most Aer Lingus flights to LAX are full so there is no need to sell flights to Australia as you dont have any seats for people to buy.
Secondly if you read the article properly you will see that Etihad ( which is not a major airline) have not said that they will be flying from Ireland but that they will consider it ,which if they are clever, they will not do as it means flying one of their few aircraft to the furthest country in Europe to be the number 3 airline doing the same thing.I suspect that they will take the free publicity and say thank you.

[EI-SHN]

Yes most flights are full but with the indtroduction of daily fligths this summer to LAX, I believe they should start to advertise the fact that Irish passengers can easily transfer onto QF flights. I'd say it is more likley that they( Etihad) will fly here in the coming 12 months. Etihad have said they are willing to lose money on new routes at first so as to establisgh a strong presence, something which GF can't do. Aer Lingus have their well known brand in Ireland to help them out if the going gets tough. I think that they should advertise the possibility of connection via LAX, aswell as opening up the long awaited route to the far east. HGK being the best for them at this time, with connections with CX and QF to other destinations in Asia and Oz. If they advertise their FFP more they may convince more people to join who will then have more tendancy to be loyal to EI.