Keeping a girl happy - with a silly question!
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Keeping a girl happy - with a silly question!
Hi everybody!
We have all been there - people know you are a pilot. They naturally assume that you are the sage of all knowledge on aviation - you do, of course try not to disappoint !!
A girl who I know is training in some kind of management thing - you know, the annoying "bonding, building bridges, bollocking and organisational change" type stuff!!
She has been pestering for some time now for information about the airline industry.. So - can anyone help a man in distress?
1, does ANYONE out there know how many "airlines" there are in Europe (by this I mean the ones that fly aircraft of ATR size upwards)?
2, Can anyone enlighten me (and her, by proxy!) on the one world system whereby airlines are grouping together for mutual benefit?
That is it - she is fairly vague in what she wants and I'm fairly clueless!
Thanks to all who can help (and to all those who quietly shake your heads and say: "get a life"!!!)
P.S I know that the TSR 2 was just that. I just couldn't get that username and I don't have the imagination for anything better!!
We have all been there - people know you are a pilot. They naturally assume that you are the sage of all knowledge on aviation - you do, of course try not to disappoint !!
A girl who I know is training in some kind of management thing - you know, the annoying "bonding, building bridges, bollocking and organisational change" type stuff!!
She has been pestering for some time now for information about the airline industry.. So - can anyone help a man in distress?1, does ANYONE out there know how many "airlines" there are in Europe (by this I mean the ones that fly aircraft of ATR size upwards)?
2, Can anyone enlighten me (and her, by proxy!) on the one world system whereby airlines are grouping together for mutual benefit?
That is it - she is fairly vague in what she wants and I'm fairly clueless!
Thanks to all who can help (and to all those who quietly shake your heads and say: "get a life"!!!)
P.S I know that the TSR 2 was just that. I just couldn't get that username and I don't have the imagination for anything better!!
Join Date: Nov 2001
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does ANYONE out there know how many "airlines" there are in Europe
http://www.evasions.com/airlines6.htm
and another ....
http://www.kls2.com/airlines/europe.html
one more ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associa...opean_Airlines
I suspect a good bit of Google research might be required to refine to a true list ....
and One World .....
http://www.oneworld.com/
or better still try this Google search ....
http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=...+airlines&meta=
Join Date: May 2003
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At last count there were 198 carriers in Europe -
143 majors/regional/2nd tier
35 Low Cost Carriers
20 Charter airlines
The airline alliances were formed in the 1990s in an attempt to facilitate seamless travel between a potentially vast number of worldwide points by integrating the networks and schedules of 20-30 member airlines. Typically each alliance will have at least one major player in the USA, in Europe, in Latin America and in Asia plus a dozen or more regional carriers across all continents.
Often carriers "codeshare" meaning that on the ticket of a passenger originating in Des Moines, Iowa and flying with American to Chicago and then BA to London and onto Edinburgh, the whole trip will appear as "AA" on the ticket, even though most of the trip is operated by BA. Codesharing gives passengers peace of mind that psychologically they are travelling with their local carrier (and therefore the safety of their local carrier) regardless of where they are going in the world. It also gives the alliance clout in the reservation system as the routings with several codes will appear several times versus routings with a single carrier would only appear once. For example BMI's London-Edinburgh route carries codes of about 8-9 other carriers so will appear on 8-9 lines of the CRS even thoiugh it is a single flight!
The alliance model does have its flaws though. It has been built around the concept of a number of large hub airports (e.g. Dallas, Chicago, Frankfurt, Amsterdam) and is very much focussed on facilitating connecting traffic. Quite often an alliance will try and "poach" passengers from the backyard of another alliance whilst charging it's own originating passengers a fortune.
For an illustration of what I mean go onto ba.com and look at the price for a Club World ticket from London to Dallas. Now on the same website enquire about the same flight but this time start your journey in Amsterdam. Note the huge price differential! It is often up to 50% cheaper to start your journey in Amsterdam than it is in London.
Meantime KLM is offering similarly good fares to UK passengers transiting through Amsterdam whilst charging a lot more to the Dutch boarding in Amsterdam!
All that happens in the end is that everybody poaches everybody elses passengers!
Worse still the AMS-LGW-DFW passenger costs the airline a lot more to carry than the LGW-DFW passenger as there is both the additional AMS-LGW leg as well as the cost of the transit (moving bags etc).
You can now begin to see why so many alliance carriers are in such a financial mess!
Throw in Low Cost carriers into the short-haul market and the future of alliances looks quite bleak. I can see the allaince model being suitable only for trips where part or all of the journey is long-haul within the next few years.
Hope this insight is of use.
143 majors/regional/2nd tier
35 Low Cost Carriers
20 Charter airlines
The airline alliances were formed in the 1990s in an attempt to facilitate seamless travel between a potentially vast number of worldwide points by integrating the networks and schedules of 20-30 member airlines. Typically each alliance will have at least one major player in the USA, in Europe, in Latin America and in Asia plus a dozen or more regional carriers across all continents.
Often carriers "codeshare" meaning that on the ticket of a passenger originating in Des Moines, Iowa and flying with American to Chicago and then BA to London and onto Edinburgh, the whole trip will appear as "AA" on the ticket, even though most of the trip is operated by BA. Codesharing gives passengers peace of mind that psychologically they are travelling with their local carrier (and therefore the safety of their local carrier) regardless of where they are going in the world. It also gives the alliance clout in the reservation system as the routings with several codes will appear several times versus routings with a single carrier would only appear once. For example BMI's London-Edinburgh route carries codes of about 8-9 other carriers so will appear on 8-9 lines of the CRS even thoiugh it is a single flight!
The alliance model does have its flaws though. It has been built around the concept of a number of large hub airports (e.g. Dallas, Chicago, Frankfurt, Amsterdam) and is very much focussed on facilitating connecting traffic. Quite often an alliance will try and "poach" passengers from the backyard of another alliance whilst charging it's own originating passengers a fortune.
For an illustration of what I mean go onto ba.com and look at the price for a Club World ticket from London to Dallas. Now on the same website enquire about the same flight but this time start your journey in Amsterdam. Note the huge price differential! It is often up to 50% cheaper to start your journey in Amsterdam than it is in London.
Meantime KLM is offering similarly good fares to UK passengers transiting through Amsterdam whilst charging a lot more to the Dutch boarding in Amsterdam!
All that happens in the end is that everybody poaches everybody elses passengers!
Worse still the AMS-LGW-DFW passenger costs the airline a lot more to carry than the LGW-DFW passenger as there is both the additional AMS-LGW leg as well as the cost of the transit (moving bags etc).
You can now begin to see why so many alliance carriers are in such a financial mess!
Throw in Low Cost carriers into the short-haul market and the future of alliances looks quite bleak. I can see the allaince model being suitable only for trips where part or all of the journey is long-haul within the next few years.
Hope this insight is of use.
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1. OAG lists 168 airlines flying scheduled passenger services based in one of the countries that make up the European single market for aviation (EU25+Norway+Iceland+Switzerland)
2. Global alliances (OneWorld, Star and Skyteam) exist basically because there are massive barriers to crossborder airline mergers. Every airline has a ‘nationality’ which limits where it can fly internationally. If these barriers did not exist, you would see global brands such as you get in the hotel industry (Marriott, Sheraton etc). The alliances are an attempt to create virtual global brands within the bounds of what’s possible.
2. Global alliances (OneWorld, Star and Skyteam) exist basically because there are massive barriers to crossborder airline mergers. Every airline has a ‘nationality’ which limits where it can fly internationally. If these barriers did not exist, you would see global brands such as you get in the hotel industry (Marriott, Sheraton etc). The alliances are an attempt to create virtual global brands within the bounds of what’s possible.
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Thanks guys - I will pass on all of the information to my friend - it might also come in useful when (if) I ever get far enough to maybe try an interview with for a real flying job!!!!
Thanks again - much appreciated!!!!!
John
Thanks again - much appreciated!!!!!
John
