BELFAST - 2

[True Blue]

Gate 22

Well said, that just about sums it up. I have been asking for a year now, how come Bhd keep adding routes and pax keep falling, never can get an answer. Look at the most recent Caa stats, pax bhd - Lgw down again. Yet haven't Flybe added another flight weekdays on that route? What has that done for the yield? If Easy add more freqencies to Lgw it will be by Flybe as well. Also Ncl not doing well.

True Blue

[True Blue]

Ei at Bfs

A poster on another forum is reporting that a friend of his at Ei has been offered a transfer to Man for a new base opening there. So the assumption is being made that the new base will be in Man not Bfs.

True Blue

[gate 22]

EI base,

There a lot of rumours floating around about where it will be from Latvia to Bristol. The hard stuff is what circulates in the media. I would say its between BHX and BFS as published in the papers last week. Although it was announced by a politician, I would say he went public with actual facts known to himself. Also the Man threads are quiet on this subject. With LHR as a winner and other possibilities I feel BFS has a good chance. The only problem is 15 destinations, but they don't have to be daily. Toulose and I think Bordeaux are options with EI from Dublin, but I think I am correct in saying they only operate a couple of times a week for example. Also BHX/MAN have a lot of competition, and if EI move in Ryanair will just react with a massive expansion at LPL/EMA. However I suppose they could expand at Londonderry if EI opened up at BFS, or although I think unlikely Ryanair could go to BHD. But BHD wouldn't suit the Ryanair model, I don't think they could operate a base there due to 1. Restrictions 2. Space.

To throw another spanner in the works is Ryanair still trying to buy EI, and if so what would the outcome be, oh this is complicated-a way out to sit in the rain.

[OltonPete]

EI Base

gate 22

In ABTN there is a direct quote from Enda Corneille (that's how it is spelt)
EI Commercial Director stating Birmingham, Glasgow, Manchester and Belfast are being considered. They are also not ruling out UK-US flights (article is still viewable).

I'm a BHX local and everyone is tight-lipped here but a few weeks ago it was thought to be in the bag by some (due to various reasons), one of which was the switching of the BHX-ORK schedule on Tuesdays, Thursdays & Saturday for winter 2007/8 from a Cork based aircraft to a BHX based aircraft.

It is still shown as the same now and there has been no change to the BHX - DUB schedule to accommodate the Cork. It was thought that the aircraft might route DUB-BHX-ORK-BHX-DUB.

They are going to great lengths to keep everyone guessing, just wish
they would put us out of our misery.

Pete

[gate 22]

Find it difficult to understand what all the fuss about Jet 2 and ski flights to Chambery from BFS is about - Flybe have operated Chambery ski charters from BHD every winter for at least the past 5 years!

Yes but apart from folk in Northdown and East Belfast who actually wants to use BHD on a holiday flight. I mean if your delayed there's actually nothing to do. Car parking options are limited. If there's high winds which quite often happens (especially in winter) then you will be diverted to BFS anyway. Give me one reason why anyone outside the above areas would want to drive into Belfast when they can use BFS. You use the west link - carpark and you may get a brick on the head. I live just outside Belfast and BHD by distance is closer. When going to Aldergrove on a flight you head out into the country side on open roads and in 10mins you are parking at BFS relaxed stress free, knowing that the aircraft probably will arrive back in the same airport. Going to bhd its like commuting to work-I tell you after a stuggle through Belfast to arrive at that airport and hear your flight is delayed - HELL!!!. Most destinations are now available from BFS and that will suit most people which is good, however I don't think are any flights to Verona this year from BFS, I am thinking of going next year, if they don't do Verona there is always Milan. Does anyone know if Verona is available from BFS-I'll have to have a word with Thompson/Ingrams about that.

[keepitlit]

Gate 22
I have been reading your misleading information/slating BHD and the only conclusion I can come to is either you have shares at BFS or you feel the harbour is a threat to your lively hood, the 2 airports serve different purposes and both do it very well, I believe there is a big enough community/population to service both, I suggest you build a bridge and get over it.

If you should do a small search on the internet i.e. BHD web site you would have gained the info about a flight to VRN, but I’ll save you the bother,
Yes it operated in the winter as a ski charter and now as a beach holiday to Garda for the summer, it’s been going twice on Saturday for about 3 weeks and they are using a 319(144 config).
With regards to who would use it, I’ve operated it over the last couple of weeks and the lowest pax figure was over 130(for a 144 I'd say that’s popular wouldn't you)

"(Especially in winter) then you will be diverted to BFS anyway"
What are facts have you based this assumption on, I’ve operated into BHD for 8 years and have diverted once due to fog not because of winds, very few have so get some facts before you bring our profession into question.

"Going to bhd its like commuting to work-I tell you after a struggle through Belfast to arrive at that airport and hear your flight is delayed - HELL!!!."
HELL! You don’t know how lucky you are, you want to try getting to airports in London.

Both have purpose, for one we are glad to have BFS as a diversion and im sure some of my easy colleagues would say the same for BHD.

rgds

K.I.L.

[Belboy]

The idea that Ryanair will start anything from the city is surely not realistic. Is the runway at Harbour not shorter than CODA, and they are having to take houses down to facilitate RYR? Can you see the local director of friends of the earth and the other good burgers of Kinnegar alloowing that one to happen? Baby will not be moving and Jet 2 are also at BFS to stay despite attempts to woo them away. BD have a dilema, the most profitable route on their network, the only one with out competition, is being decimated despite the fact that the competition is not even to the same airport LHR, but to the other London airports, and now you have a realistic threat of direct competition, BFS - LHR. BD realise that the decision to move in 2001 was for all the wrong reasons and are now seriously considering how they should react to secure this ultra lucretive route. If EI don't announce a BFS - LHR beforehand I think you will see a move back up the road by BD, at least in a limited form, 4 daily including late night arrival to BFS, but this will only be the precursor to moving all services back.

[keepitlit]

BEL

You may see a late rotation but they wont move just yet, they are happy to stick with situ at the min as its doing the job nicely

Rgds

K.I.L.

[gate 22]

My interests from Bfs point of view are plain and simple COMMON SENSE. I know of several folk who live under the flight path (and are fed up with the noise) and having worked under the flight path myself I think from a COMMON SENSE safety and enviromental, point of view, there is no reason as to having an airport in a built up area when there is one just up the road. (I mean for the size of Belfast this is just common sense, nothing else). People will reply with nonsense about living beside airports is desirable and they do not annoy folk, (these folk can only be spotters). Speaking on behalf of myself (I know that I am mad in the head for saying this but I would not like to live right under the flight path, aeroplanes are NOISY. Like wise I would not like to live beside a motoway or a nuclear power station as a result of this I DON'T. However not everyboby has this choice and these people need protection (the planners have not treated BCA like LCY is, no 737's A320 operate in the latter.
NI plc does not need BCA. In fact their owners are a construction firm, and I am sure we are not far from a point when the value of the land for development occupied by BCA is greater than the value of running the airport. Belfast is short of housing, rather than destroy the countryside BCA should be developed as an area for high density housing. This would be welcomed by most. This decision will be based on economics by the owners and will happen as the value of land keeps on rising at a rediculous rate. I think this happened in Hong Kong.

As for diversions keepitlit, you are lucky the amount of folk I know who have been diverted to BFS would put anybody of, for reasons such as high winds, late arrivals or as you say fog. You obviously work for BD which they seem to operate pretty well with relation to delays but not BE on friday night (I think) there were 2 diversions.

[keepitlit]

Youve shown your colours "(and are fed up with the noise)"


As for safety please explain your point are you suggesting we are unsafe!
I can furnish you with our requirements which are above and beyond legal requirements.


"the planners have not treated BCA like LCY is, no 737's A320 operate in the latter."
I think youll find LCY is getting approved for 319's. its nothing to do with it being a city airport its the steep approach criteria which has to be met!

If the owners wanted to sell for development why would they apply to expand it!

Ive heard this all before but I think BHD will outlive both of us!

rgds

K.I.L.

[eastern wiseguy]

Actually KIL I suspect you are correct in the assertion that it will "outlive us both" HOWEVER a very strong case can be made for the existence of two airfields so close together actually STIFLING overall growth.The duplication of costs and lack of interchange between airlines (pain in the bum in places like BHX/MAN/GLA/EDI if you miss a BEE and see there is an EZY departing for a different airfield) not useful for business travellers. A flight from the capital which leaves ridiculously early in the evening doesn't help.The total number of passengers in the same place might actually act as a pump primer for MORE services from the US /EUROPE and dare I say it beyond?. Noise IS a factor for many people who did NOT move beside the airfield (IT actually moved in with THEM .A naval air station morphs into a facility which is regulary shifting in the region of 1,000,000 people per annum)..
The solution IS BFS .....as unpalatable as it may be to us rich folk in North Down.

[keepitlit]

Mabe, but it anit going to happen any time soon, I hear they are to put the noise gear in so the jurys out on that one.

Im just happy to work out of both,


As for "to us rich folk in North Down" I wish LOL

Rgds

K.I.L.

[cuthere]

Having used both airports many, many times over the years I'd like to say getting delayed at either is HELL. In fact, getting delayed at any airport is HELL. In BHD's defence, at least, providing the delay is long enough, which on occasion it has been, you can hop on the bus into Belfast city centre (and on more than one occasion the nice peeps at Flybe check-in even took my number to give me a call if a miraculous fix to any delay was achieved) . At BFS you're sort of stuck there.

Anyway, isn't it in the interests of everyone in Northern Ireland to have three thriving, successful airports, with BFS as the main or hub international airport; Belfast City providing the service it already does, for business travel, regional passengers, a selection of charters and easy access to flights for the people in its immediate catchment area; and for City of Derry to provide a selection of regional and charter routes to the 400,000 people or so in the NW of Ireland (Derry City Council figures), for whom travelling to either Belfast airport can be an expensive pain in the bum?

It seems in the south of Ireland any town of any size has an airport (Galway, Waterford, Knock (not much urban sprawl there!), Kerry, Sligo etc etc), and they seem to be doing ok. So why should the north be any different?

I don't see the need for the "my airport is better than yours" bickering....but there you go.

[gate 22]

Keepitlit,

• ‘shown my true colours’ well the ‘noise’ doesn’t actually bother me I don’t live under a flight path, but there are people who do if you have no regard for them well fair enough.
• Safety-I would like to think every airport satisfies the highest safety requirements or the CAA will shut you down. An accident is most likely to occur while an aircraft is taking off or landing therefore as BHD is located in a built up area there would be a higher risk involved with respect to casualties because 1. its harder to perform an emergency landing in a housing estate as opposed to open fields, 2. Because there is high density housing the risk is higher to the number of casualties on the ground. You can throw the book at me all you want but one cannot argue with this ‘risk assessment’. I mean if you were to site an airport at a city that didn’t have one, and you had a blank canvas, the airport would be sited away from built up areas.

"(Especially in winter) then you will be diverted to BFS anyway"
What are facts have you based this assumption on, I’ve operated into BHD for 8 years and have diverted once due to fog not because of winds, very few have so get some facts before you bring our profession into question

BEE132

GLASGOW

22:55

22:55

DIVERTED FROM

I used the term high wind diversions loosely to imply that there is a high chance of a diversion at BHD. The above extract was copied from the BFS arrivals board earlier this evening, I wonder where that has been diverted from, I wouldn’t want to bring any ones profession into question

[richardnei]

Must agree with Gate 22.

Flybe diversions at BFS are becoming more and more regular. Some weeks it's a daily occurance. It must cost them alot in coach transfers, crew taxis and out off hours ground handling.

It only seems to be Flybe. You very rarely see a bmi divert to BFS.

[eastern wiseguy]

Anyway, isn't it in the interests of everyone in Northern Ireland to have three thriving, successful airports

Frankly no...for the reasons given above

[cuthere]

Surely the economic drivers within the aviation industry will determine the need or otherwise for two, three or ten airports in NI. Are we to believe that airlines will keep operating unprofitable, underused routes, when pressures such as fuel costs etc are considered? Especially BMI, whose slots at LHR are no doubt valuable to them?

If, as some on here seem to be suggesting, BHD is superfluous, then surely that will become all too obvious in the cold light of hard economics and the likes of Flybe and BMI will take their aircraft and routes elsewhere.

[eastern wiseguy]

I think you have to look at the type of deals airlines are given by ALL airports in NI. The fact remains that if you were to take a cold look at what was best for NIplc you would come to the conclusion that TWO airports(ignore City of Derry..it is a specific niche) chasing fundamentally the same business is not economical nor sensible.

[cuthere]

If that's correct the result will be one of the airports in question becoming economically untenable, with inevitable loss of business and possible closure; and surely that can't be good news.

[eastern wiseguy]

If you were an accountant and you looked at it long and hard ...what would you do?.As it is they are there,seperate,competing, and I believe it to be a poor use of resources.