Lufthansa

[newscaster]

The airline will be starting their own service to DOH from FRA via KWI from January with an A330, which version? and what about the code share on QR?

[mmeteesside]

A330-300 surely??

mmeteesside

[GroundScot]

Lufthansa buys 50% Garuda ??

Just heard rumours eminating out of Jakarta that Lufthansa have bought a 50% stake in Garuda ??

Does anyone know if this true - or have any more details ??

thanks...........

[ScootCargoOps]

I heard that the Indonesian government was opening up Garuda to foreign investment but I do think that LH would be able to purchase an equal share.

Qantas are looking at investing in a Low Cost Indonesian carrier.

[cheekycapt]

Garuda !

'Garuda executives have discussed partnership programs with international carriers but the talks are not about selling Garuda's shares,' State Minister for State Enterprises Sugiharto was quoted by the newspaper as saying.

[Buster the Bear]

Lufthansa considering Southampton, Bristol and Cardiff

German airline Lufthansa is considering operating services from more UK airports, including Bristol, Cardiff and Southampton.

Speaking to Travel Weekly, the airline's UK and Ireland general manager Dieter Grotepass said that Lufthansa was looking at operating flights from other hubs to ease congestion caused by the recent security alert at Heathrow.

Lufthansa's passenger traffic at airports outside London has been steadily growing, he noted.

"Growth from regional airports has been up ten per cent to twelve per cent since July and is increasing, especially from Manchester and Birmingham," he said, although the carrier did suffer a 17 per cent drop in business class passengers at Heathrow a week after the alert.

[682ft AMSL]

One wonders whether this interest in UK regional flying will see them taking a more relaxed approach to bmi regional's attempts to open up LBA-German routes. I've lost track of the slot applications put forward for LBA-MUC, FRA, DUS, CGN over the years, none of which have ever made it any further. The view has always been this is because of interference from LH who fear a negative impact on their MAN based operations. But it's obvious that bmi are desperate for things to do with their Embraers, so desperate in fact that the last 3 proposed route launches never made it off of the ground. LBA-MUC/FRA feels a much tighter strategic fit than LTN-BRU or SOU-AMS so let's hope the bigwigs at Lufthansa finally allow them a bit of scope to progress it.
682

[OltonPete]

Lufthansa considering new UK routes

As I have posted several times on the Birmingham thread about the
dismal summer at BHX, indeed Lufthansa (& possibly Bacon) have bucked
the trend. The CAA stats are as follows: -

Dusseldorf - BHX

April 14103 +11%
May 12378 +19%
June 12685 + 9%
July 9916 - 7% (whoops) LH reduced to 2 a day for July & Aug

Frankfurt - BHX (BA reduced from 5 to 4 a day from 2005 and all ERJ's)

April 25915 +19%
May 25161 +20%
June 24130 + 8%
July 25513 + 8%

Munich - BHX

April 11889 +10%
May 11320 +15%
June 11286 + 8%
July 12785 +15%

Also we know from BHX press releases all Midlanders stayed at home
and watched the World Cup - so nothing to do with the increases

I am sure there is quite a bit of low yielding connecting traffic on
Munich and Frankfurt but still a good performance.

Bring on LH to BRS, SOU, I say

BTW the Saturday afternoon Munich tomorrow should be a CRJ900
but as with LH at BHX you can get anything from a 321 down
these days.

Pete

BTW

[11Fan]

After all, it is a rumor network

Wednesday in Frankfurt should be interesting.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-12-05T210904Z_01_N05314508_RTRIDST_0_BOEING-LUFTHANSA-UPDATE-2.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna

[vapilot2004]

Lufthansa goes for 747i

According to the Seattle Times, Lufthansa will order 20 of the Boeing 747-8 or 747 Intercontinental.

Lufthansa plans to buy about 20 Boeing 747-8 planes worth $5 billion at list prices, a setback to Airbus, people familiar with the order said.

Lufthansa would be the first airline customer to purchase the passenger version of Boeing's newest 747. The carrier may announce the order tomorrow, said the people, who asked not to be identified because the discussions haven't been made public.

The decision lets Lufthansa upgrade and expand its long- haul fleet and brings Boeing's backlog for the 747-8 to 69 airliners with a list price of up to $19.5 billion. Boeing has been gaining on bigger rival Airbus this year. Lufthansa was among the earliest customers for Airbus's competing A380, now two years behind schedule.

"Lufthansa is one of the leading international carriers and this kind of order illustrates Boeing's growing lead in the wide-body aircraft market," said Craig Fraser, a Fitch Ratings analyst in New York. "They are pulling away from Airbus and taking advantage of Airbus's problems with the A380."

Boeing spokesman Tim Bader declined to comment. "No decision has been made yet," said Stefanie Stotz, a spokeswoman in Frankfurt for Cologne, Germany-based Lufthansa.

The carrier's supervisory board will meet tomorrow and approve an order for a minimum of 20 jetliners, one of the people said.

A second person said Lufthansa will announce an order tomorrow and that the size would be similar to what the Wall Street Journal reported earlier today. The newspaper said the carrier will buy 20 747s and take options for 20 more.

The 747-8 will be built using the more-efficient engines and wing design from Boeing's new 787 Dreamliner, and the plane will cost 21 percent less to operate than Airbus's A380, according to Boeing's Web site.

The 747-8 lists for up to $282.5 million each for passenger versions. The Airbus model lists for about $300 million.

Since Boeing introduced the 747-8 in November 2005, it has won a total of 49 firm orders. Boeing Business Jet has ordered three of the passenger version and Lufthansa would be the first outside airline client.




Expansion Plans

Lufthansa is still considering further purchases and is weighing Boeing's 787 model and Toulouse, France-based Airbus's A350 as the company aims to grow 4 percent to 6 percent a year.

The carrier ordered five 335-seat Airbus A330-300 aircraft in September for its long-haul fleet and 30 short-haul Airbus planes, worth $3.12 billion at list prices.

Chief Executive Officer Wolfgang Mayrhuber said in October he wanted to wait until he saw the final form of the A350 before deciding between that and the 787 for other orders to come in 2007.

Airbus is redesigning the A350 after complaints from potential customers. The planemaker won approval for the new project Dec. 1 from EADS, and the A350 XWB is now scheduled to enter service in 2013, five years after the 787. The program was in jeopardy because of cost overruns with the new 555-seat A380.

Lufthansa will have the world's second-largest A380 fleet, behind Emirates, once it receives all 15 on order, the first of which is now due to arrive in 2009.

Lufthansa will also probably decide in the next six months on an order for a "double-digit" number of regional aircraft, the company's fleet manager, Nico Buchholz, said Nov. 12.

The carrier has said it's in talks with Bombardier Inc. and Empresa Brasileira de Aeronautica SA, or Embraer. Bombardier executives said in October that the German airline is considering buying 12 CRJ900 aircraft, which can carry 75 to 90 passengers and have a list price of $35.2 million each.

Lufthansa currently operates 236 passenger aircraft, 61 percent of which are Airbus models. The rest are single-aisle 737 and twin-aisle 747 airliners made by Boeing.

[Taildragger67]

Here's a story from Bloomberg:

Lufthansa Plans to Order 20 Boeing 747 Jetliners, Journal Says
2006-12-05 13:24 (New York)

By Cesca Antonelli

Dec. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG may announce as soon as tomorrow that it is buying 20 Boeing Co. 747 jetliners worth more than $5 billion at list prices, the Wall Street Journal reported.

The airline would be the first to buy the passenger version of the plane and also will take options for 20 more, the Journal said, citing unidentified people familiar with the order.

The decision is a blow to Boeing's bigger rival, Airbus SAS. Lufthansa in 2001 was among the first customers for the A380 jet, which Airbus is selling as an alternative to the 747, the Journal said.

Boeing spokesman Jim Condelles didn't immediately respond to a voicemail message from Bloomberg today seeking comment.

"No decision has been made yet," said Stefanie Stotz, a spokeswoman in Frankfurt for Cologne, Germany-based Lufthansa.

--With reporting by Susanna Ray in Frankfurt and James Gunsalus in New York. Editor: Antonelli

[11Fan]

Decision Made

We'll have 20, beginning in 2010.

[Ignition Override]

Lufthansa's order for new Boeing 747 (800). Why?

These ads have appeared at least twice in "USA Today" and other media.

Is it political, as a result of public accusations about which production facility (no secret there, based upon previous media articles...) caused the most problems building the new A-380?

It appears to me to be a total surprise. Just for the record, initial training on 'my' first Airbus aircraft begins January 3rd, just in case somebody decides to read into these straight-forward questions, between the lines.

But I eat my pommes frites (French fries) with ketchup, not mayonnaise, fietspad or no fietspad.

[vapilot2004]

In our current climate of free trade, surely Lufthansa decides acquisitions according to economics and not politics. The Boeing Intercontinental must have been very attractive to them or they would not have made the order.

Lufthansa will soon operate both the longest (748) and largest (A380) prestigious jumbos in the world with this dual purchase.


USA Today is clearly biased - publishing anti-Airbus material - similar but opposite in tack from Flight Global which is often pro-Airbus. Editorial concerns aside, an ad is an ad and is paid for by someone outside of the publication in question.

Hamburg was at fault regarding a central but ,in the end, minor part of the 'wiring' snafu. It is my opinion that the ultimate blame for the A380 delays should rest on the shoulders of the two-headed beast that is Airbus management and nowhere else. Engineers seem to be the convenient and decidedly undeserving scapegoats in this case.

Good luck with the Airbus training. My experience with the latest generation of Airbii has to date been very positive.

[In trim]

Totally agree with the above post that LH will make decisions based on economics, not politics.

There are also some strong arguments for larger carriers to still mix their fleets as:

- Better buying power in the future being able to play one manufacturer off against another for the next wave of purchases in years to come.

- Not having "all your eggs in one basket" from a risk management point of view.

- Whilst the A380 will undoubtedly be best for some routes, the sector length combined with slightly lower passenger and probably slightly higher cargo carrying capacity (and revenue) on other routes will undoubtedly favour the 747-800.

With a large carrier such as LH they would have a large enough fleet of each type to still make each fleet viable in terms of economics, flexibility, crewing, training, etc. Yes there will inevitably be some disadvantages compared to a single manufacturer, but no doubt these are outweighed by the points above.

[Whitehatter]

Can't see the issue here.

They will have gotten a decent price as launch customer, and are to replace some GE powered 747s with newer GE powered 747s. For the same reason I would expect Air France to dip their toe into the 748I pond before much longer.

I still think if Boeing had offered to build it with a Trent derivative offered as well they could have picked up additional sales by now. That's a whole new debate though and probably won't have much effect in the long term on eventual units shifted.

[ManfredvonRichthofen]

Correct me if i am wrong but the ads are Boeing ads which state that LH is the launch customer etc

I am certain LH didn't pay anything towards the ad. In which case it is just standard marketing practice. Which when it concerns airliners is always gonna be political.

[ExSimGuy]

GE / RR Engines

Does the above indicate that Boeing don't offer RR engines these days? (or maybe GE-only on the new 74s?)

I find it rather surprising if they don't give a RR option on the 74 as there must be a lot of their "loyal customers" who have the Trent on (say) their 777s

Isn't that a bad marketing move? Or maybe it's just the first "batch" of 748s that can't be had with Trents?

[captainyonder]

With BA recently annoucing their new LGW-DRS service does this mean that LH will finally lower their fares from the mad price of £250 that they charge at the moment to fly via MUC, FRA or DUS?

[Ignition Override]

Why did Lufthansa order Boeing jets?

Are they unable to wait for the delayed deliveries of the A-380, or is it a 'tran-European' political reaction to recent public statements to the press?