SkyEurope
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Waiting for a robust response ( as usual ) from PeterPaul, but WHY if you had money to invest, would you invest in Sky Europe ? or indeed in ANY airline, WHY ? Beats me. . . 
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Well, it seemed like a good investment for a couple of years.
A new airline, without any real competitor, offering an attractive product to Central Europe's (at that time) growing middle-class. Starting with a single Embraer 125, going on to an expanding fleet of B.737, and finally with an impressive order of 737-700 aircraft; bases in Poland and in Hungary, it could have really covered quite a network. Motivation among all employees was great, unlike MANY other West-European LowCost-airlines.
Christian Mandl was a young, clever and enthusiastic guy who performed something like the "American Dream" in Slovakia.
Investing into this company seemed to be a very promising thing to do.
But that was years ago. For a long time now, all that happened was a steady decay of things. They changed their plans so often, even employees couldn't really keep up to date with them.
For example, millions of Euros were invested into Krakow-base, and then they shut it down only a few months later.
The people in Budapest-base were promised god and the world - base shut down, despite other announcements.
More often than not, even we pilots were surprised to read a totally new announcement, by coincidence, in a newspaper or on the company's website.
Decisions made by wannabe-trytobe-managers.
Unreliable information from above made it impossible for employees to make any long-term plans for their own lives. Wasting many good opportunities didn't really build up confidence either - there were plenty of suggestions being made by intelligent people, but nobody cared.
Experienced people usually left the company in disappointment after some time, always being replaced by inexperienced new yes-guys. There was one manager, who even quit his job again after less than two weeks - he was then replaced by a lovely sweet young Cabin Attendant.
Waste of cash: One example was starting their own ground-handling company and failing badly with it.
Finally the downfall: All they are doing now is to somehow try and make ends meet, looking straight into the abyss.
New 737-NGs are gone, salaries are slashed, no more glorious powerpoint-presentations, no more parties. Welcome to the hang-over.
And management still makes excuses about why this is so (fuel prices one year ago, general economic downturn, blablabla).
So why would somebody still invest?
Either some new investor is very "optimistic" (to use a friendly expression), or it's just money-laundering of some sort (which happens as well).
We shall see. "Fresh capital" is, has been, and will be, the magic word.
A new airline, without any real competitor, offering an attractive product to Central Europe's (at that time) growing middle-class. Starting with a single Embraer 125, going on to an expanding fleet of B.737, and finally with an impressive order of 737-700 aircraft; bases in Poland and in Hungary, it could have really covered quite a network. Motivation among all employees was great, unlike MANY other West-European LowCost-airlines.
Christian Mandl was a young, clever and enthusiastic guy who performed something like the "American Dream" in Slovakia.
Investing into this company seemed to be a very promising thing to do.
But that was years ago. For a long time now, all that happened was a steady decay of things. They changed their plans so often, even employees couldn't really keep up to date with them.
For example, millions of Euros were invested into Krakow-base, and then they shut it down only a few months later.
The people in Budapest-base were promised god and the world - base shut down, despite other announcements.
More often than not, even we pilots were surprised to read a totally new announcement, by coincidence, in a newspaper or on the company's website.
Decisions made by wannabe-trytobe-managers.
Unreliable information from above made it impossible for employees to make any long-term plans for their own lives. Wasting many good opportunities didn't really build up confidence either - there were plenty of suggestions being made by intelligent people, but nobody cared.
Experienced people usually left the company in disappointment after some time, always being replaced by inexperienced new yes-guys. There was one manager, who even quit his job again after less than two weeks - he was then replaced by a lovely sweet young Cabin Attendant.
Waste of cash: One example was starting their own ground-handling company and failing badly with it.
Finally the downfall: All they are doing now is to somehow try and make ends meet, looking straight into the abyss.
New 737-NGs are gone, salaries are slashed, no more glorious powerpoint-presentations, no more parties. Welcome to the hang-over.
And management still makes excuses about why this is so (fuel prices one year ago, general economic downturn, blablabla).
So why would somebody still invest?
Either some new investor is very "optimistic" (to use a friendly expression), or it's just money-laundering of some sort (which happens as well).
We shall see. "Fresh capital" is, has been, and will be, the magic word.
Last edited by Nightfire; 9th Apr 2009 at 10:45.
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Well, I have good news for SkyEurope. Bad news for some people here, it does answer questions, except for the unprecedented spat of money-laundering (can you mention another airline, ever, with same suspicions you have?), shame on you.
SAS pays price of selling its soul, SkyEurope sees some light, Air France-KLM rises - SHARE WRAP | Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation
I have insisted in other topics that SkyEurope will outlive competitors, would you take a bet? Probably not. Others do it, in millions of EUR, or in EUR 23 fares. Time to change your mind? Why not be on the winning side? Be rational, look after your interest man! How many more years do you need to be convinced?
There is perhaps some light at the end of the tunnel for SkyEurope (+13.0%), and it may not be the express train coming in the opposite direction - at least some investors think so. Reporting a small but significant 2.7% load factor improvement in Mar-2009, off a steeply reduced traffic base due to its diminished fleet (pax numbers down 39% for the month, year on year), SkyEurope also announced the arrival of a new CCO.
It doesn't take much to move a share price which has sunk as low as SkyEurope's, but there are still clearly some buyers out there who see there may now be some upside. The carrier is offering a large array of cheap fares over Easter, which should bolster its cash flow, as well as giving management a good idea of how things will go from here.
It doesn't take much to move a share price which has sunk as low as SkyEurope's, but there are still clearly some buyers out there who see there may now be some upside. The carrier is offering a large array of cheap fares over Easter, which should bolster its cash flow, as well as giving management a good idea of how things will go from here.
I have insisted in other topics that SkyEurope will outlive competitors, would you take a bet? Probably not. Others do it, in millions of EUR, or in EUR 23 fares. Time to change your mind? Why not be on the winning side? Be rational, look after your interest man! How many more years do you need to be convinced?
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"The light at the end of the tunnel may be the headlight of an oncoming train"
Time to change your mind?
Why not be on the winning side? Be rational, look after your interest man! How many more years do you need to be convinced?
I have no advantage or disadvantage from whichever side of the razor's blade SkyEurope will tip to. Personally, I hate to see it go down.
Having said that, here is my answer to you.
As I said in one of my previous posts further up, it may well happen once again that somebody comes along to pump a few millions into, and save, SkyEurope once more.
That's not "bad luck" for me at all; as I said, I wish all the best to my friends and ex-colleagues who are still working there.
But I don't share your optimism. Even though I admit that SkyEurope has surprised us all until now, I wonder what makes you assume that things are going to get better just now? A few more passengers (thus raising your load-factor), who are paying "23-Euro fares", as you just said?
The truth is, many tickets were sold long in advance, the money has already been spent, and now Skyeurope is going to have to fly passengers to their destinations without being able to pay for the fuel.
So no matter what the load-factor: unless there comes "fresh capital", SkyEurope is in a problem. Is that not so?
You are pointing at an increased load-factor, although you have just lost most of your planes. How many paying passengers do you have, and how much is the profit from that?
Even if you're about to get a few more leased old planes (which are quite available in times like these, I am sure): It is going to leave the fleet of SkyEurope exactly where it was in 2004 and 2005. Which means not only was it all for nothing, the new logo, new uniforms, new aircraft-interior, new corporate image. It also means SkyEurope has made zero-progress even during the best of times in the recent years.
So if Skyeurope doesn't make profit even when the times are good: What are you going to expect when things are going globally bad, like now?
Supposing SkyEurope really does get another credit, what is going to happen? Let me tell you:
Perhaps some changes in management. A new strategy will be announced. The same old phrases of "increased load-factors", some routes cancelled and others opened, and perhaps another base (VIE, BTS or PRG) suddenly being shut down "to concentrate on our market in...".
Some of the usual speeches about "issues in the past which we hope to improve by doing this-and-that!".
And by the end of the year, the cash will be gone again.
It has always been like that, and it won't change now.
Guess what, I'll be happy to book my next London-/Paris- to -Bratislava flight with SkyEurope again, the next time I'm travelling home. No hard feelings. I'm just telling you my honest opinion, which I seem to be sharing with the majority here.
Last edited by Nightfire; 9th Apr 2009 at 15:18.
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Well said Nightfire! I absolutly agree with you. And again no offense but having a manager from Malév
... knowing the past of the company seems just like the step of having a big friendly hug with MyAir.
PeterPaul any comment on my posts? It is nice to be waiting for something, but it was the same with the last two applicants willing to invest. I don't have anything against any competition if it is based on a rational and financially stable background. At this point it seems to me that NE managers are sitting around a big barrel and they are getting warm by burning the money inside. If I am wrong I will be among the first ones to appoligize and to admit it.
! I absolutly agree with you. And again no offense but having a manager from Malév... knowing the past of the company seems just like the step of having a big friendly hug with MyAir. PeterPaul any comment on my posts? It is nice to be waiting for something, but it was the same with the last two applicants willing to invest. I don't have anything against any competition if it is based on a rational and financially stable background. At this point it seems to me that NE managers are sitting around a big barrel and they are getting warm by burning the money inside. If I am wrong I will be among the first ones to appoligize and to admit it.
Last edited by Bubba_; 16th Apr 2009 at 16:58.
ots.at: EANS-Adhoc: SkyEurope Holding AG announces the further extension of York loans, postponement of the publication of its annual financial statements =
Deadling of loans to York and overdue publication date of audited accounts both extended another month to 15 May.
The loan repayment is one thing - essentially between York and SkyEurope. However the repeated deferral of the publication of audited accounts for a company formally list on a major stock exchange (OK - Vienna is not London or NY, but it's a serious outfit) is rather more cause for concern. Sounds like the auditors and Skyeurope's board of directors may have differing opinions on accountancy principles and what should or should not be signed off as giving a fair representation of the company's state.
Deadling of loans to York and overdue publication date of audited accounts both extended another month to 15 May.
The loan repayment is one thing - essentially between York and SkyEurope. However the repeated deferral of the publication of audited accounts for a company formally list on a major stock exchange (OK - Vienna is not London or NY, but it's a serious outfit) is rather more cause for concern. Sounds like the auditors and Skyeurope's board of directors may have differing opinions on accountancy principles and what should or should not be signed off as giving a fair representation of the company's state.
Deadling of loans to York and overdue publication date of audited accounts both extended another month to 15 May.
The loan repayment is one thing - essentially between York and SkyEurope. However the repeated deferral of the publication of audited accounts for a company formally list on a major stock exchange (OK - Vienna is not London or NY, but it's a serious outfit) is rather more cause for concern. Sounds like the auditors and Skyeurope's board of directors may have differing opinions on accountancy principles and what should or should not be signed off as giving a fair representation of the company's state.
The loan repayment is one thing - essentially between York and SkyEurope. However the repeated deferral of the publication of audited accounts for a company formally list on a major stock exchange (OK - Vienna is not London or NY, but it's a serious outfit) is rather more cause for concern. Sounds like the auditors and Skyeurope's board of directors may have differing opinions on accountancy principles and what should or should not be signed off as giving a fair representation of the company's state.
If the loans are extended then the auditors may be happier to sign Sky Europe off as a going concern and so assets can be recorded at depreciated historical cost as per normal.
Not being a going concern can have a seriously bad effect on your balance sheet!
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Sky Europe current fleet
What is the current Sky Europe fleet ?
Have they got their own 737-300's or are they still using Air Slovakia etc on lease ?
Anyone know what is operating the LTN/PRG ? I am booked on the 15:00 LTN/PRG next Wed 29/4. I do have a Wizzair flight booked the same day, just in case !
Have they got their own 737-300's or are they still using Air Slovakia etc on lease ?
Anyone know what is operating the LTN/PRG ? I am booked on the 15:00 LTN/PRG next Wed 29/4. I do have a Wizzair flight booked the same day, just in case !
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boeing boeing
I do have a Wizzair flight booked the same day
I do have a Wizzair flight booked the same day
There is a better chance that Wizzair goes bust first. So you have the SkyEurope flight for sure.
Most likely both airlines will be operating in the coming months. In this case, I agree that you prefer to fly with SkyEurope, and the ticket with Wizzair was only a spare.. SkyEurope is a far better airline. With superior service.
Have a nice flight.
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" There is a better chance that Wizzair goes bust first" 
You seem to have some difficulty to accept, that by all normal parameters, Sky is already bust, they are merely concealing it by A - extending their loans repeatedly. & B - Deferring release of their results repeatedly.
I don't dispute that this may well continue for some time, but by any reasonable assessment they ARE already bust. If not, how come so many aircraft were repossessed by the leasing companies ? couldn't pay the bills no ?
Sounds like a reasonable definition of bust to me, can't pay bills, leased assets removed by owner, Oh, and employees paid late repeatedly, and probably not fully.
You seem to have some difficulty to accept, that by all normal parameters, Sky is already bust, they are merely concealing it by A - extending their loans repeatedly. & B - Deferring release of their results repeatedly.
I don't dispute that this may well continue for some time, but by any reasonable assessment they ARE already bust. If not, how come so many aircraft were repossessed by the leasing companies ? couldn't pay the bills no ?
Sounds like a reasonable definition of bust to me, can't pay bills, leased assets removed by owner, Oh, and employees paid late repeatedly, and probably not fully.
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Fact or Fiction Skyeurope's "superior" service:
Last comment from airlinequality.com..
We had our flight Vienna to Amsterdam cancelled with short notice during our holiday. With few other flight options at times suitable to us, we requested a refund - though SkyEurope was very keen to have us take a voucher, but being based in Australia it is unlikely we will be in Europe again in the near future and would never touch this airline again. We have been waiting three months for our refund, with no response to emails, calls to the reservation centre or letters sent. I would strongly advise anyone thinking of using this airline to reconsider. Their service is terrible.
Last comment from airlinequality.com..
We had our flight Vienna to Amsterdam cancelled with short notice during our holiday. With few other flight options at times suitable to us, we requested a refund - though SkyEurope was very keen to have us take a voucher, but being based in Australia it is unlikely we will be in Europe again in the near future and would never touch this airline again. We have been waiting three months for our refund, with no response to emails, calls to the reservation centre or letters sent. I would strongly advise anyone thinking of using this airline to reconsider. Their service is terrible.
Bubba - even on the world's finest airlines, it is always possible for a single passenger for things to just go badly wrong and have a terrible experience. Furthermore, I suspect that those who have a reasonable experience probably do not feel the need to write a review. A conclusive opinion as to the merits (or lack) of an airline probably needs rigorous polling of a large number of passengers on a variety of days.
While SkyEurope has a number of significant issues to deal with in the short-term, it is not possible to draw any conclusions from the experience of just one passenger.
While SkyEurope has a number of significant issues to deal with in the short-term, it is not possible to draw any conclusions from the experience of just one passenger.
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Well, having 12 bases, a fleet of 20 planes, plus another 70 on order is more than SkyEurope ever had, even during their best of times. So much for your attempt to slash out at Wizz.
But let us not talk about passenger-rants; I agree that SkyEurope's service onboard was always very good, and since I've never travelled with W!zz, I don't know them and can't judge on that.
However, warm smiles from the girls and fresh instant-coffee onboard won't save you. Right now, all you should be concerned about is your delayed financial report. Until we all read it, there is nothing new to be discussed about. You better have something good to say in it, not just a pink-painted picture.
Peter Paul, you suggested in your post from 19.April to have a bet.
Do you remember? Well, I would take it, but first I'd like to know with what you are going to pay me after you lose? with the salary that you didn't get?
But let us not talk about passenger-rants; I agree that SkyEurope's service onboard was always very good, and since I've never travelled with W!zz, I don't know them and can't judge on that.
However, warm smiles from the girls and fresh instant-coffee onboard won't save you. Right now, all you should be concerned about is your delayed financial report. Until we all read it, there is nothing new to be discussed about. You better have something good to say in it, not just a pink-painted picture.
Peter Paul, you suggested in your post from 19.April to have a bet.
Do you remember? Well, I would take it, but first I'd like to know with what you are going to pay me after you lose? with the salary that you didn't get?
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There is a better chance that Wizzair goes bust first. So you have the SkyEurope flight for sure.
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Best thing is to just ignore PeterPaul. Not worth fighting and getting upset about that personality-coach-talk. What else can he do in his position, anyway. It shows quite clearly how desperate NE is, if you want to view him as a representative of the company.
PeterPaul, just some advice to you: Don't talk too badly against Wizzair! You never know who reads this, and in a while from now you might have to walk up to them very humbly. Save yourself the embarrassment and us the bullsh**.
PeterPaul, just some advice to you: Don't talk too badly against Wizzair! You never know who reads this, and in a while from now you might have to walk up to them very humbly. Save yourself the embarrassment and us the bullsh**.