Security gone mad, or have I?
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Security gone mad, or have I?
Well airport security has gone mad alltogether.
Yesterday commercial positioning BRU-LHR. Checked in and was asked the usual questions, "Is this your bag" etc.
Went through the security check, hand baggage X-rayed, jacket, keys, coins etc.
Got to gate, passport and boarding card checked.
Arrived Heathrow and passport checked by Immigration. Collected bags and walked from Terminal 1 arrivals upstairs to Departures level. Got into an Air Links bus and drove round to gargo side of airport. Where we were met by an ITS Security man and escorted through a security gate in to a sterile area inside the warehouse. Once inside we shown to a crew room that was locked and could only be opened by a security pass which not being LHR based we didn't have, so the security man let us in with our bags. After about 40 minutes guy came and told us the aircraft had arrived and did we want to go out to it.
After leaving the crew room we went through another security gate into the warehouse and then had to have our luggage x-rayed again and the usual pat down and magic wand treatment.
Got into a company vehicle and drove 200 meters to the plane which was clearly visisble from the warehose.
After getting out of the bus we walked to the bottom of the steps and F*%#K ME if we weren't frisked again before we were allowed on to the aircraft!
I came out a little later did the walkround and was frisked again before I was allowed back on board!
What is the point of all this hassle? Who are we trying to protect from who?
After cheking in and going through security as a passenger I could have bought everything from the gift shops and the pharmacy to make a perfectly deadly bomb or incendiary device and tooled myself up with all the weapons I could want, penknives, scissors etc. to take over a fleet of planes. But we don't need to do that, if we wait until we get to work the airline give is a very good fire axe and usually a perfectly serviceable autopilot with which we can create all the mayhem we could possibly want.
I have worked for this company for 4 years. I have been a U.K. licenced flight engineer for 30 years. I have held a British passport since I was fifteen and been a British citizen all my life. My colleagues had worked for the company for 8 and 12 years. We have company I.D.cards, Airport authority I.D. cards, passports and national I.D. cards and licenses. We have had background checks and vetting and still were treated like maximum security prisoners.
If one quarter of the effort being put into making our working life intolerable was spent in stopping and deporting illegal immigrants, failed asylum seekers and arresting general everyday thieves, rapist, murders and peadophiles then the U.K. would be one of the greatest places on earth to live.
Who are these security companies? It seems to be that the security companies advise the Airport Authority and possiblby the government on the proceedures that need to be in place so they can charge more to service the proceedures that they have recommended and hire more personnel so that they can then recommend more proceedures because they are now large companies and must therefore be experts in their field.
This is a multibillion pound industry and it is going to get bigger.
1984 can't be all that far away.
Roll on retirement.
Yesterday commercial positioning BRU-LHR. Checked in and was asked the usual questions, "Is this your bag" etc.
Went through the security check, hand baggage X-rayed, jacket, keys, coins etc.
Got to gate, passport and boarding card checked.
Arrived Heathrow and passport checked by Immigration. Collected bags and walked from Terminal 1 arrivals upstairs to Departures level. Got into an Air Links bus and drove round to gargo side of airport. Where we were met by an ITS Security man and escorted through a security gate in to a sterile area inside the warehouse. Once inside we shown to a crew room that was locked and could only be opened by a security pass which not being LHR based we didn't have, so the security man let us in with our bags. After about 40 minutes guy came and told us the aircraft had arrived and did we want to go out to it.
After leaving the crew room we went through another security gate into the warehouse and then had to have our luggage x-rayed again and the usual pat down and magic wand treatment.
Got into a company vehicle and drove 200 meters to the plane which was clearly visisble from the warehose.
After getting out of the bus we walked to the bottom of the steps and F*%#K ME if we weren't frisked again before we were allowed on to the aircraft!
I came out a little later did the walkround and was frisked again before I was allowed back on board!
What is the point of all this hassle? Who are we trying to protect from who?
After cheking in and going through security as a passenger I could have bought everything from the gift shops and the pharmacy to make a perfectly deadly bomb or incendiary device and tooled myself up with all the weapons I could want, penknives, scissors etc. to take over a fleet of planes. But we don't need to do that, if we wait until we get to work the airline give is a very good fire axe and usually a perfectly serviceable autopilot with which we can create all the mayhem we could possibly want.
I have worked for this company for 4 years. I have been a U.K. licenced flight engineer for 30 years. I have held a British passport since I was fifteen and been a British citizen all my life. My colleagues had worked for the company for 8 and 12 years. We have company I.D.cards, Airport authority I.D. cards, passports and national I.D. cards and licenses. We have had background checks and vetting and still were treated like maximum security prisoners.
If one quarter of the effort being put into making our working life intolerable was spent in stopping and deporting illegal immigrants, failed asylum seekers and arresting general everyday thieves, rapist, murders and peadophiles then the U.K. would be one of the greatest places on earth to live.
Who are these security companies? It seems to be that the security companies advise the Airport Authority and possiblby the government on the proceedures that need to be in place so they can charge more to service the proceedures that they have recommended and hire more personnel so that they can then recommend more proceedures because they are now large companies and must therefore be experts in their field.
This is a multibillion pound industry and it is going to get bigger.
1984 can't be all that far away.
Roll on retirement.
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Originally Posted by DogsDiner
:
This is a multibillion pound industry and it is going to get bigger.
1984 can't be all that far away.
Roll on retirement.
This is a multibillion pound industry and it is going to get bigger.
1984 can't be all that far away.
Roll on retirement.
Amen to that!!!!!!
You think this is madness. Try the (totally deprived of any sense of humor) TSA in the USA.
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If you want to make real money set up a security company and then invent things to check, the goverment is so frightend of the press that you can charge them for anything...........................this is now not about protecting the public from terrorists it is about protecting the goverment from fleet street.
Oh ! i almost forgot that it also keeps those to stupid to do a real job off the unenployment lists (good secondary effect for the goverment)
Oh ! i almost forgot that it also keeps those to stupid to do a real job off the unenployment lists (good secondary effect for the goverment)
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Apperently in CPH you now get frisked and x-rayed between leaving the airplane and getting landside.
Isn't it about time the crews started an airport user group, pressure group or somesuch to try and get some sense and intelligence (my bad using the words airport security and intelligenge in the same thread) to bring some reality to the situation?
What are the unions, BALPA, IAPLA etc doing?
Surely they cant accept this situation! can they?
Isn't it about time the crews started an airport user group, pressure group or somesuch to try and get some sense and intelligence (my bad using the words airport security and intelligenge in the same thread) to bring some reality to the situation?
What are the unions, BALPA, IAPLA etc doing?
Surely they cant accept this situation! can they?
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...ditto HKG arriving at cargo apron. Though pax arriving at the cargo apron (there are a few flights, though not many) get straight through the security barrier with no checks. Not just pointless security, but inconsistent pointless security.....
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CPH: From cargo apron, bus to pax terminal, get out at security post half way round, and go through the whole magic wand business, however, bags left in bus, unchecked. Utter madness serving absolutely no purpose whatsoever, other than inconveniencing knackered crew trying to get to bed.
In common with most, I am fully in favour of sensibly, tight security measures applied in the right places, but the industry is already a monster and is set to ruin EVERYBODY's life. Before too long every door on a field will have 2 goons and an xray machine. Its a sorry state.
In common with most, I am fully in favour of sensibly, tight security measures applied in the right places, but the industry is already a monster and is set to ruin EVERYBODY's life. Before too long every door on a field will have 2 goons and an xray machine. Its a sorry state.
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Having suffered similar treatment on all major airports in the EU (crown of abuse going to AMS and BHX) I can only concur
It seems that wearing a uniform makes you target prone and most officials take a malign revenge in scanning belongings, indecently searching crew, this most times in FULL VIEW OF OUR PAX
No this ain't airport security, this is the airport crew harassment squad!
It seems that wearing a uniform makes you target prone and most officials take a malign revenge in scanning belongings, indecently searching crew, this most times in FULL VIEW OF OUR PAX
No this ain't airport security, this is the airport crew harassment squad!
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Inconsistencies
At the risk of wandering off thread slightly, I have a question...
What is the official line on bona fide aircrew carrying small tools, ie leathermans etc?
I am led to believe that (in the uk) this is forbidden, but I know several pilots that carry these tools with no problems. I have tried it with limited sucess.
BAA have an inconsistent approach. In the past I have not had problems in EDI or ABZ, but at LHR it appears to depend on the day.
At LHR I was told that I could not carry such tools unless I was performing an engineering function. It is a daft rule that prevents aircrew performing minor tasks (adjusting headsets, opening panels, replacing lamps etc), but the inconsistency with its application is frustrating.
Any thoughts?
What is the official line on bona fide aircrew carrying small tools, ie leathermans etc?
I am led to believe that (in the uk) this is forbidden, but I know several pilots that carry these tools with no problems. I have tried it with limited sucess.
BAA have an inconsistent approach. In the past I have not had problems in EDI or ABZ, but at LHR it appears to depend on the day.
At LHR I was told that I could not carry such tools unless I was performing an engineering function. It is a daft rule that prevents aircrew performing minor tasks (adjusting headsets, opening panels, replacing lamps etc), but the inconsistency with its application is frustrating.
Any thoughts?
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Amen to that... This morning I spend more time going through security, than my commute here ( CPH)
When they tow aircrafts from the Hangars to the gates, the driver is met by security with their wands... because he has been out of the "secure" area...
When they tow aircrafts from the Hangars to the gates, the driver is met by security with their wands... because he has been out of the "secure" area...
Doncaster
Operated through the "new" Doncaster airport last year. Went through the screening in uniform. I didn't beep the metal detector but was still called aside for a pat down by an older security "gentleman". Pat down was more like a full body massage. Then asked to show the soles of my shoes. Then asked to take out my wallet. He then proceeded to check behind each credit card, for what I don't know. Then asked me to take my ballpoint pen out of my shirt pocket and show him the nib. Has anybody else met this fine proffesional and what is his problem?
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I'm sad to say that it seems increasingly apparent that these security "screeners" have neither the intelligence, nor the interpersonal skills to secure a position in the local sheltered workshop..they then opt for a position in aviation security
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This is indeed for the purposes of "exhibition" to make the public feel somewhat secure whilst making the government look like the big protector ... yeah of their own careers
This is unecessary as we all know but what's worrying is the fact that by constantlu prying through aircrew's wallets, items and uniforms they are eventaully going to find something one day that will satisfy their urge to call a security alert! Ruining some poor bloke's career for no reason at all. 1984 I think we're in it already aren't we.
As a matter of interest are celebrities still passed through rigorous security as well. Maybe they could pat down David Beckham and when he asks what security are looking for they can reply "Sorry Sir, we're searching for talent under your celebrity status!".
This is unecessary as we all know but what's worrying is the fact that by constantlu prying through aircrew's wallets, items and uniforms they are eventaully going to find something one day that will satisfy their urge to call a security alert! Ruining some poor bloke's career for no reason at all. 1984 I think we're in it already aren't we.
As a matter of interest are celebrities still passed through rigorous security as well. Maybe they could pat down David Beckham and when he asks what security are looking for they can reply "Sorry Sir, we're searching for talent under your celebrity status!".
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Originally Posted by haughtney1
I'm sad to say that it seems increasingly apparent that these security "screeners" have neither the intelligence, nor the interpersonal skills to secure a position in the local sheltered workshop..they then opt for a position in aviation security
The government (elected or unelected, ie EU) set the reqirements for airport security, the airport authority or operator hires a security firm to impliment and advise on security. The more security breaches, imagined or overwise,the security company can identify, the more security is required. The security company then has to hire more moroms, sorry, agents to accomplish the task and the bigger the task the more money the security company makes. When the governments want advice on security who do they ask? The security companies of course, they're the experts.
The whole thing is driven by profit. Because the words Airport and Security are used in the same sentence then no one ever questions whether it is right or wrong. The politicians look good because they have put the security in place, the airport authority look good because they have implemented more than the minimum reqirements and the security company get the money.
This industry (security) is becoming a monster.
No one is going to complain about security checks being carried out if they are done with as little inconvieniance as possible and also if the measures are practical but at the moment it seems that new and different procedures are implemented for no other reason than to allow the security companies to hire more people.
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This is still within the realms of the thread and has puzzled me for some while.
I work at BHX and every single day I HAVE to put my food through the x-ray machine as the 'security' guards will not allow it to be passed over the machine and given a going over with the wand. It goes as far as them passing cups of coffee (honestly!! ) through the machine which they then proceed to spill everywhere.
Does anyone know if there are any health issues with your food being x-rayed each day? It's not normal...and there has to be a reason radiographers in hospitals sit in a lead tomb behind a bombproof wall.
No doubt it wouldn't be allowed in other walks of life...but as we're aircrew.....
I work at BHX and every single day I HAVE to put my food through the x-ray machine as the 'security' guards will not allow it to be passed over the machine and given a going over with the wand. It goes as far as them passing cups of coffee (honestly!!
) through the machine which they then proceed to spill everywhere.Does anyone know if there are any health issues with your food being x-rayed each day? It's not normal...and there has to be a reason radiographers in hospitals sit in a lead tomb behind a bombproof wall.
No doubt it wouldn't be allowed in other walks of life...but as we're aircrew.....
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I totally understand the frustration that is being felt and that there are many people who are justifing their positions.
However the message still isn't getting through to many people.
Recently I passed through Heathrow to see a rather broad chap arguing with security as to why he couldn't take his baseball bat on as hand luggage!
Or the secuity in Dubai that made me take off my shoes et al, and put them through the x-ray, only to see the dimwit behind the monitor not even looking at the screen and talking to the doris next to him.
When I complained to the BA gate manager, that I didn't mind being screened, however people should at least do their job, she made a thinly veiled threat that she could have me off loaded!
I have since realised - Never argue with a fool, they will only bring you down to their level.
However the message still isn't getting through to many people.
Recently I passed through Heathrow to see a rather broad chap arguing with security as to why he couldn't take his baseball bat on as hand luggage!
Or the secuity in Dubai that made me take off my shoes et al, and put them through the x-ray, only to see the dimwit behind the monitor not even looking at the screen and talking to the doris next to him.
When I complained to the BA gate manager, that I didn't mind being screened, however people should at least do their job, she made a thinly veiled threat that she could have me off loaded!
I have since realised - Never argue with a fool, they will only bring you down to their level.
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The problem with the UK security industry (and I'm sure this extends to Airport security) is that the grossly over-inflated fees charged by the security companies are not passed on to the 'operators'. They regularly get paid barely above the basic minimum wage, often have to work 60 + hour weeks and are stuck in mind-numbing routines.
And you know how the saying goes, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
So it's hardly surprising that Johnny Jobsworth and Desmond ******** are often going to be found dressed up in a nice uniform and given a position whereby they can exercise some degree of authority over the person whose job they would desperately love to be doing.
If you want efficient, motivated, practically minded and sensible security operators, the industry needs to make the role truly vocational with real structure and career progression, train staff properly, pay a decent wage and have sensible work patterns.....and employ people who are doing the job because they want to do it, not because its the only job they can get.
Is it ever going to happen? I'm not going to hold my breath.
Rant over. Signing off.
2close
And you know how the saying goes, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
So it's hardly surprising that Johnny Jobsworth and Desmond ******** are often going to be found dressed up in a nice uniform and given a position whereby they can exercise some degree of authority over the person whose job they would desperately love to be doing.
If you want efficient, motivated, practically minded and sensible security operators, the industry needs to make the role truly vocational with real structure and career progression, train staff properly, pay a decent wage and have sensible work patterns.....and employ people who are doing the job because they want to do it, not because its the only job they can get.
Is it ever going to happen? I'm not going to hold my breath.
Rant over. Signing off.
2close
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Question - What is the best way to improve Aircraft Security in Britain?
a) To overturn the convictions of a group of armed Afgan Hijackers who took over an aircraft at gunpoint, then grant them the right to live in the UK and award them with a full array of state benefts thus obvously deterring similar attacks in the future.
b) Make sure all thoroughly background searched professional pilots are not able to get to their aircraft unless thay have had their sandwiches x rayed and searching between the credit cards in their wallet.
a) To overturn the convictions of a group of armed Afgan Hijackers who took over an aircraft at gunpoint, then grant them the right to live in the UK and award them with a full array of state benefts thus obvously deterring similar attacks in the future.
b) Make sure all thoroughly background searched professional pilots are not able to get to their aircraft unless thay have had their sandwiches x rayed and searching between the credit cards in their wallet.
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Dogs Diner,
I have the answer and it is pure and simple. Department for Transport! there is no way to avoide the rules of this furry little beast and its cohorts.
You have to be escorted by the fat man, x-rayed, frisked and frisked again by the inept gaurd (as many times as you go up and down those steps). Its the same for every member of ground staff and I agree with you that it is a tad silly.....
D.H.Love
I have the answer and it is pure and simple. Department for Transport! there is no way to avoide the rules of this furry little beast and its cohorts.
You have to be escorted by the fat man, x-rayed, frisked and frisked again by the inept gaurd (as many times as you go up and down those steps). Its the same for every member of ground staff and I agree with you that it is a tad silly.....
D.H.Love