Security gone mad, or have I?
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Consol
It is quite possible that the person you spoke to was acting like an idiot, this happens in all lines of work unfortunately. The problem we have as aviation security officers, is that ALL staff working in airside locations feel that they should have special rights and should be allowed to avoid security procedures. It must be understood that it has to be the same for everybody. It is only a small part of the day for a pilot, cabin crew, ramp operative etc, so why all the fuss. We as aviation security officers, many ex forces, police and other ex professionals have to take flack off people like you, day in, day out. It is just a shame that you feel you are so much more important than the rest of us. As for Mobile phones, pens & shoes, these things can be adapted into guns and bombs. (remember everyone has to be treated the same passenger, staff & crew alike) basically, stop filling yourself with self-importance we all sleep, **** and die, we are all the same.
It is quite possible that the person you spoke to was acting like an idiot, this happens in all lines of work unfortunately. The problem we have as aviation security officers, is that ALL staff working in airside locations feel that they should have special rights and should be allowed to avoid security procedures. It must be understood that it has to be the same for everybody. It is only a small part of the day for a pilot, cabin crew, ramp operative etc, so why all the fuss. We as aviation security officers, many ex forces, police and other ex professionals have to take flack off people like you, day in, day out. It is just a shame that you feel you are so much more important than the rest of us. As for Mobile phones, pens & shoes, these things can be adapted into guns and bombs. (remember everyone has to be treated the same passenger, staff & crew alike) basically, stop filling yourself with self-importance we all sleep, **** and die, we are all the same.
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Common Sense
DogsDiner
The main instigator for all this nonesense in the U.K. is the DfT, Department for Transport and until they are made to listen to us, the people who actually use the airport and one of main reason they've got an airport in the first place and not the wannabe Andy McNabs and 007s that run the security companies then nothing is going to change.[/quote]
Thank you DogsDiner. Some common sense is out there. As with anyone, they can do the job well and be polite about it or they are complete plonkers. I am not going to name and shame as this is not the area for doing so, but from my experience there are 'good' crew and 'bad' crew and quite frankly some are downright abusive and obnoxious. We are all playing the game and as such we should play it with some degree of decorum. If crew get bolshi then you can bet your life that the security 'officer' will take their time and hinder the passage through to airside. If plesant and polite, then the 'officer' will no doubt be quick and apologetic. Whats the old saying 'do unto others as others do unto you', if you are polite, i am sure they will be polite, and if not, why not casually enquire as to why they are not, it could be that this is the 70th bag they have done that morning and they have been up since 2.30!
Security staff do not particularly like going through bags or body searching, but its part of the job and as you said we are just doing what we are told. I try to always be polite (even when the proverbial is hitting the fan), but it does grate when you are just doing a job and getting flack for it. Security staff get the hassle from both ends of the spectrum those earning 100k flying and those going on holiday.
Common sense is the way to go and quite frankly the rules laid down by the DfT are, more often than not stupid. If a pilot wished to crash a plane he could and no amount of body searching would stop him, but the rule states that if a person (any person) bleeps then they are subject to a search. As well as that a percentage of non-bleepers should be randomly checked as well, be it staff or passengers. And so we do as it states.
A last note, some airports are not doing the correct ratios as laid out by the DfT, while others are following them to the letter. Maybe one has to question the reasons why this is so. Do the 'powers that be' know something that the security officer and pilots do not have access to? Is there some information at a higher level that those in the front line are not being told? Just think about it........
:- P
The main instigator for all this nonesense in the U.K. is the DfT, Department for Transport and until they are made to listen to us, the people who actually use the airport and one of main reason they've got an airport in the first place and not the wannabe Andy McNabs and 007s that run the security companies then nothing is going to change.[/quote]
Thank you DogsDiner. Some common sense is out there. As with anyone, they can do the job well and be polite about it or they are complete plonkers. I am not going to name and shame as this is not the area for doing so, but from my experience there are 'good' crew and 'bad' crew and quite frankly some are downright abusive and obnoxious. We are all playing the game and as such we should play it with some degree of decorum. If crew get bolshi then you can bet your life that the security 'officer' will take their time and hinder the passage through to airside. If plesant and polite, then the 'officer' will no doubt be quick and apologetic. Whats the old saying 'do unto others as others do unto you', if you are polite, i am sure they will be polite, and if not, why not casually enquire as to why they are not, it could be that this is the 70th bag they have done that morning and they have been up since 2.30!
Security staff do not particularly like going through bags or body searching, but its part of the job and as you said we are just doing what we are told. I try to always be polite (even when the proverbial is hitting the fan), but it does grate when you are just doing a job and getting flack for it. Security staff get the hassle from both ends of the spectrum those earning 100k flying and those going on holiday.
Common sense is the way to go and quite frankly the rules laid down by the DfT are, more often than not stupid. If a pilot wished to crash a plane he could and no amount of body searching would stop him, but the rule states that if a person (any person) bleeps then they are subject to a search. As well as that a percentage of non-bleepers should be randomly checked as well, be it staff or passengers. And so we do as it states.
A last note, some airports are not doing the correct ratios as laid out by the DfT, while others are following them to the letter. Maybe one has to question the reasons why this is so. Do the 'powers that be' know something that the security officer and pilots do not have access to? Is there some information at a higher level that those in the front line are not being told? Just think about it........
:- P
Just play the game. Get the metal out, throw the bag in the machine, take off your coat. Is that really too much to ask?
See, it's all about compromise. We want your airport to be better protected than a trainstation, yet we don't want a full cavity search on every passenger. Everything in between will allways be a compromise.
And compromises are by definition not perfect, they will always cause debate.
If you ask passengers to take their laptops out of their luggage you will achieve a greater level of security. But then pilots on pprune will scream rape and murder, because it slows things down even further.
When you alleviate certain rules to speed up the security process, the same pilots on pprune will say: see, this security has more holes than a Swiss cheese.
So just play the game. And let the security-agent do his/her job.
See, it's all about compromise. We want your airport to be better protected than a trainstation, yet we don't want a full cavity search on every passenger. Everything in between will allways be a compromise.
And compromises are by definition not perfect, they will always cause debate.
If you ask passengers to take their laptops out of their luggage you will achieve a greater level of security. But then pilots on pprune will scream rape and murder, because it slows things down even further.
When you alleviate certain rules to speed up the security process, the same pilots on pprune will say: see, this security has more holes than a Swiss cheese.
So just play the game. And let the security-agent do his/her job.
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Polehill.flt70
I am polite but there are still those that behave like "plonkers" which in my opinion has to do with something that stands out in your post those earning 100k flying.Must feel good for some to be dressed up in a uniform with limited education and or skills and stop a pilot who makes a 100K a year and hold him up in front of a bunch of pax,there are polite screeners and they are just doing there job,it's the one who things there is guy making a 100K a year flying planes and i have the power to say:TAKE YOUR SHOES OF!!! that is the problem.
Just a little power trip for some, give me a break about procedures etc.
Cheers
I am polite but there are still those that behave like "plonkers" which in my opinion has to do with something that stands out in your post those earning 100k flying.Must feel good for some to be dressed up in a uniform with limited education and or skills and stop a pilot who makes a 100K a year and hold him up in front of a bunch of pax,there are polite screeners and they are just doing there job,it's the one who things there is guy making a 100K a year flying planes and i have the power to say:TAKE YOUR SHOES OF!!! that is the problem.
Just a little power trip for some, give me a break about procedures etc.
Cheers
Like someone mentioned earlier, there are loosers in any profession.
However, dare I say that most of this 'I can command a pilot who earns 100K to get of his shoes' business is something that goes on mostly in your mind.
Still, I wouldn't blame a security-agent to feel slightly vindicated with the power he has, seeing how some of you judge these people (stupid, dumb, no education).
However, dare I say that most of this 'I can command a pilot who earns 100K to get of his shoes' business is something that goes on mostly in your mind.
Still, I wouldn't blame a security-agent to feel slightly vindicated with the power he has, seeing how some of you judge these people (stupid, dumb, no education).
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There is a misconception by many pilots that security officers are all unskilled with little knowledge of anything. That may apply to some, but alot are actually ex professionals like I said before, some are graduates, former police officers and even former special forces.
Trouble is you do not want to play the game.
Come on guys, what does it matter if an agent is ex-SAS or just barely finished any education? He's there to do a job. This contempt for a fellow's education is very very dull.
What do you expect, Phd in radiology to sit behind the x-ray?
As if a pilot really knows what makes his plane fly.
He knows enough to do the job. And so does the agent.
Come on guys, what does it matter if an agent is ex-SAS or just barely finished any education? He's there to do a job. This contempt for a fellow's education is very very dull.
What do you expect, Phd in radiology to sit behind the x-ray?
As if a pilot really knows what makes his plane fly.
He knows enough to do the job. And so does the agent.
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This threading is winding up like an ammonite. It is getting boring too, and if life doesn't come back to it soon it will end up like the above cephalopod and become extinct!
Just thought I wouldn't get serious - yet!
PPP
Just thought I wouldn't get serious - yet!
PPP
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The contempt comes in if you are not treated with a little common courtesy,what is so difficult about asking somebody to please go back through instead of GO BACK!
If i come through and say good morning and someone doesn't have the time to wish me the same and instead start barking orders i think what a looser.
You can do your job and still be polite,or not? There is no reason at all to be rude or is there?
Behave like a professional and you get treated like one.
If i come through and say good morning and someone doesn't have the time to wish me the same and instead start barking orders i think what a looser.
You can do your job and still be polite,or not? There is no reason at all to be rude or is there?
Behave like a professional and you get treated like one.
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Yes PRuNe POP it's turning into a dick measuring contest.
EagleStar Its not about who searched who for what and it's not about who's a plonker and who's not.
Penko and Polehill thanks for your input and I don't for one minute think this is about "I can f*%~k around with these guys who earn 100K".
If you read the earlier posts, it's about respect and dignity.
Respect and dignity on both sides. We both have jobs to do.
Why do we as crew have to go through all the vetting, background checking and hoop jumping (box ticking if you like) to be issued with company and airport authority I.D. cards, and for them to mean nothing when it comes to actually getting to the airplane to carry out the job for which we have been vetted and background checked. If the DfT were to take proper responsibility for airside passes and to issue them themselves then a lot of of this quite unessercary checking could be stopped. ie Sorry your not allowed through Manchester 'cos you've got a Birmingham I.D.card.
The quite frankly absurd procedure that I had to go through on Saturday(the first post in this thread) to get from landside to airside I have since found out was entirely at the instigation of the DfT.
I know that to some of you security agents(officer? what is the correct title?) do think that to us it is only a small part of the day to go through the checks. But that might only be at your airport. With multiple sectors per day and commercial positioning before, after or in the middle of the duty day it is not unreasonable to assume that one particular crew or crew member could be checked four times in one day. Standing in line with all your passengers for the forth time in a day wondering how long it's going to take this time on top of being concerned with possible technical problems, ATC delays, duty times etc. just adds to the frustration of what possibly has been already a long frustrating day.
Aviation is still quite a small industry and background and character checks are or should be fairly easy to carry out. If the government or the E.U. had the will to standardise the checks and to issue the relevent passes then our whole life ( and I mean the security agents as well ) could be made easier. Imagine if there was a special security area only for crew and airport staff, would that not be easier to police than having the crew mixing with the passengers where in a lot of airports inbound and outbound pax still meet?
Would it not reduce the pressure on the security personnel by easing the manpower reqirements?
As I said before this is about cowardly politcians being lead by greedy security companies.( and I am a capitalist ).
The security measures in place at the moment do very little to heighten security and I think from reading all the posts here that both sides agree on that.
The question is WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?
EagleStar Its not about who searched who for what and it's not about who's a plonker and who's not.
Penko and Polehill thanks for your input and I don't for one minute think this is about "I can f*%~k around with these guys who earn 100K".
If you read the earlier posts, it's about respect and dignity.
Respect and dignity on both sides. We both have jobs to do.
Why do we as crew have to go through all the vetting, background checking and hoop jumping (box ticking if you like) to be issued with company and airport authority I.D. cards, and for them to mean nothing when it comes to actually getting to the airplane to carry out the job for which we have been vetted and background checked. If the DfT were to take proper responsibility for airside passes and to issue them themselves then a lot of of this quite unessercary checking could be stopped. ie Sorry your not allowed through Manchester 'cos you've got a Birmingham I.D.card.
The quite frankly absurd procedure that I had to go through on Saturday(the first post in this thread) to get from landside to airside I have since found out was entirely at the instigation of the DfT.
I know that to some of you security agents(officer? what is the correct title?) do think that to us it is only a small part of the day to go through the checks. But that might only be at your airport. With multiple sectors per day and commercial positioning before, after or in the middle of the duty day it is not unreasonable to assume that one particular crew or crew member could be checked four times in one day. Standing in line with all your passengers for the forth time in a day wondering how long it's going to take this time on top of being concerned with possible technical problems, ATC delays, duty times etc. just adds to the frustration of what possibly has been already a long frustrating day.
Aviation is still quite a small industry and background and character checks are or should be fairly easy to carry out. If the government or the E.U. had the will to standardise the checks and to issue the relevent passes then our whole life ( and I mean the security agents as well ) could be made easier. Imagine if there was a special security area only for crew and airport staff, would that not be easier to police than having the crew mixing with the passengers where in a lot of airports inbound and outbound pax still meet?
Would it not reduce the pressure on the security personnel by easing the manpower reqirements?
As I said before this is about cowardly politcians being lead by greedy security companies.( and I am a capitalist ).
The security measures in place at the moment do very little to heighten security and I think from reading all the posts here that both sides agree on that.
The question is WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?
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Recent years have seen numorous press trying to gain entry airside at a number of airports with various devises posing as a member of staff. They have had security vetting. One of the biggest fears in aviation security is terrorists posing as an airport worker. The problem is that sleeper cells are not forced to have a criminal record and yet they could even get a job as a cabin crew attendant.
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Make your mind up.....
Worked at MAN for just over 4 yrs as a ramp op..upon till last wednesday i never had any trouble getting my leatherman through security. As I passed through the staff gate in t2 i was told under no circumstances was i allowed to go airside with it...ive had no problems in the previous 4 yrs i replied...you aint having it said the nice ASO they ARE NOT ALLOWED...okey dokey i says give it me back and i'll go back landside. I then proceded to North Gate approx 300 yds away manned by the same company and walked straight into work no questions asked...I just leave it in my locker now to save any more hassles.....
