Security gone mad, or have I?
Tightgit
It's sad really. They are doing all this in a futile attempt to prevent the possibility that a member of the crew may be a terrorist, with the aim of taking the aircraft on a 'last trip'. Yet they have missed the obvious. If one of the pilots has decided to take aircraft and passengers to oblivion all he has to do is wait till about 500 ft agl, point the nose at the deck and whack the throttles back! So as an obvious method of prevention, I suggest an armed security man to each pilot, with a pistol loaded and made ready, pointed at his/her pilots head. Then, should the vicious passenger hating maniac steering, decide that the moment has come..............
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: lgw
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cruise alt...Ans B
Recently positioning thru bfs in civvies i was subject to a "random" search. The chap emptied my flight bag and looked at everything like the chimp he was. He ignored the obvious pilot paraphinalia, didnt ask or notice that i had an airside pass unde my t shirt, and generally tried to humiliate me. Having returned my belongings from the scanner he said i could repack my scattered flight bag. Now, my question is, who is responsible to repack it, and why waste a random search on someone who is already cleared airside.
He didnt even notice the two eastern gentlemen in dish dash and sunglasses smelling of marzipan that passed behind me.
One time in bfs in uniform, operating i had a safety balde removed from me and returned by the despatcher for safe keeping when the loadsheet was deliverd.
F@cking morons.
Recently positioning thru bfs in civvies i was subject to a "random" search. The chap emptied my flight bag and looked at everything like the chimp he was. He ignored the obvious pilot paraphinalia, didnt ask or notice that i had an airside pass unde my t shirt, and generally tried to humiliate me. Having returned my belongings from the scanner he said i could repack my scattered flight bag. Now, my question is, who is responsible to repack it, and why waste a random search on someone who is already cleared airside.
He didnt even notice the two eastern gentlemen in dish dash and sunglasses smelling of marzipan that passed behind me.
One time in bfs in uniform, operating i had a safety balde removed from me and returned by the despatcher for safe keeping when the loadsheet was deliverd.
F@cking morons.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: LHR ( EGLL )
Age: 57
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember clearly the week after 9/11 landing at MCO, getting inside the terminal building to find a huge queue and then being searched - ON THE WAY IN !
I always suspected that the company had bubbled us all up for eating the cheese and was determined to catch us with the afters.
And as a result, the TSA.
I always suspected that the company had bubbled us all up for eating the cheese and was determined to catch us with the afters.
And as a result, the TSA.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
No this ain't airport security, this is the airport crew harassment squad!
There's no doubt in MY mind that there is a minority of these secuity "officers" who have got it in for aircrew.
I've typed out an extensive overview HERE, which I hope provides (some) resolution for those of us who are willing to put some time into doing more than just chucking a "hissy fit" about it.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dublin
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello Mike, good to see your still alive and still with NaffJets I take it.
I just posted this over at Pirep:
"Yes this is an international problem and I think its about time that we professionals got together and did something about it.
We are not against security, quite the contrary all we want is to be treated with some respect and courtesy.
Maybe if we started lobbying our various unions and members of parliament, congressmen, MEPs, senators and T.D.s etc. we could get somethings changed. "
Maybe they would start listening to the professionals and not the wannabe 007s and Andy McNabs.
I just posted this over at Pirep:
"Yes this is an international problem and I think its about time that we professionals got together and did something about it.
We are not against security, quite the contrary all we want is to be treated with some respect and courtesy.
Maybe if we started lobbying our various unions and members of parliament, congressmen, MEPs, senators and T.D.s etc. we could get somethings changed. "
Maybe they would start listening to the professionals and not the wannabe 007s and Andy McNabs.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: South of the Watford Gap, East of Portland
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is yet another thread to add to the many posted on this site since 9th September, 2001, concerning the ludicrous so-called 'security' measures which government agencies have mindlessly introduced in the name of preserving (in actuality irradicating) freedom. My blood almost reaches boiling point when I read such tales of farce; what pushes it over boiling point is the fact that tens of thousands of literate, reasonably well-educated people around the world, namely the flightcrew community, accept this crap day in day out and do nothing about it!
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Staines, Middlesex
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do I now have to get my laptop out of it's bag when I go through security? Surely a small amount of leather isn't going to confuse the x-ray machine...
And why do I have to leave nail scissors at home when I have easy access to razor sharp scissors in the aircraft medical kit... AND A JEMMY...
I now think that in the interest of security, cups of tea should be forbidden on aircraft. It's very easy to use one to gain access to the flight deck... My method is the "ring once and wave it in front of the camera technique. The door then magically opens
And why do I have to leave nail scissors at home when I have easy access to razor sharp scissors in the aircraft medical kit... AND A JEMMY...
I now think that in the interest of security, cups of tea should be forbidden on aircraft. It's very easy to use one to gain access to the flight deck... My method is the "ring once and wave it in front of the camera technique. The door then magically opens
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: 58-33N. 00-18W. Peterborough UK
Posts: 3,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Evidence that security searches are absolutely non-effective - some short time ago I was in the security line at a Nevada airport, idly kicking my brief case along the floor ahead of me. I noticed the brand new, multi million dollar scanning machines ahead, which triggered a thought. I knew that one of the two new Leathermans I had was in my checked bag - but where was the other one?
Oh dear! In the brief case at my feet. What to do? Own up - or wing it? The latter won and my brief case disappeared into the bowels of the machine. Meanwhile, I went though the arch, rang a bell and was frisked. During this frisking a TSA guy walks towards me, my brief case in hand. Here we go I thought - this could take some time. Not a bit of it.
This yours sir?' Yes I replied. It was handed over with have a nice trip.
Relief. I changed aircraft in Phoenix, after spending two hours airside, and then boarded a flight to, of all places, DC.
Security? Laughable.
Oh dear! In the brief case at my feet. What to do? Own up - or wing it? The latter won and my brief case disappeared into the bowels of the machine. Meanwhile, I went though the arch, rang a bell and was frisked. During this frisking a TSA guy walks towards me, my brief case in hand. Here we go I thought - this could take some time. Not a bit of it.
This yours sir?' Yes I replied. It was handed over with have a nice trip.
Relief. I changed aircraft in Phoenix, after spending two hours airside, and then boarded a flight to, of all places, DC.
Security? Laughable.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Staines, Middlesex
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The stupidist thing I see is the metal detector arches that beep for every single person that go through. If they are so sensitive that they pick up buttons and tie pins there is no point having them....
aka Capt PPRuNe
Join Date: May 1995
Location: UK
Posts: 4,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not about what you can or can't get through 'security'. As pointed out above, it matters not one iota that you can get a Leatherman or a gun through security. It is the 'person' that is the weapon.
If you have no intent to cause harm, either directly or by aiding someone else to do so, then the fact that you managed to get something through security proves that it is little more than a cosmetic exercise. What is not properly addressed, and I run the risk of upsetting various tree huggers and assorted vegans with this proposal but, what is required is passenger profiling. I know it is a dirty word for some who do not properly understand what it really is but unless it is taken seriously and the beancounters are able to comprehend the difference between real safety and profit then we are all going to continue to get upset at some of the antics we regularly see being acted out in the name of 'security'.
Passenger profiling is really an exercise in 'intelligence' and we all know what an oxymoron that is when it comes to airport 'security'. As this topic gets raised every few weeks and follows the same, predictable path, I will move it as it certainly isn't 'news' any more.
If you have no intent to cause harm, either directly or by aiding someone else to do so, then the fact that you managed to get something through security proves that it is little more than a cosmetic exercise. What is not properly addressed, and I run the risk of upsetting various tree huggers and assorted vegans with this proposal but, what is required is passenger profiling. I know it is a dirty word for some who do not properly understand what it really is but unless it is taken seriously and the beancounters are able to comprehend the difference between real safety and profit then we are all going to continue to get upset at some of the antics we regularly see being acted out in the name of 'security'.
Passenger profiling is really an exercise in 'intelligence' and we all know what an oxymoron that is when it comes to airport 'security'. As this topic gets raised every few weeks and follows the same, predictable path, I will move it as it certainly isn't 'news' any more.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pacific
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is all about Airport Security. If you think about it for a while, it is only marginally connected to the real problem which is Aircraft Security. Airports do not get hijacked or flown into buildings; airplanes do.
It is not possible to protect airplanes from a point on the ground and all this cr@p we go through is for show and profit. It has nothing to do with making us safer.
So far the only things that have been done about the real problem of airplane security have been to make the flight deck doors stronger and order them always locked (so what about a Jetstream or Bandit?) and to make sure there are sufficient F16s to protect the politicians on the ground, who see themselves as targets and are even afraid of little Cessna 150s.
Taking stuff off passengers and crew is worse than stupid. Remember that scene in Crocodile Dundee where the mugger pulled out a 4 inch knife and Mick Dundee countered with his 12 inch blade? Now picture a hijacker with a box cutter against a plane load of angry pax with leather mans, scissors etc.
There are plenty of ways to get weapons on board a commercial flight; disarming the honest people who might be able to fight back (isn't that the point?) makes no sense at all.
It is our fault; we elected these morons who are responsible for the situation we find ourselves in now.
It is not possible to protect airplanes from a point on the ground and all this cr@p we go through is for show and profit. It has nothing to do with making us safer.
So far the only things that have been done about the real problem of airplane security have been to make the flight deck doors stronger and order them always locked (so what about a Jetstream or Bandit?) and to make sure there are sufficient F16s to protect the politicians on the ground, who see themselves as targets and are even afraid of little Cessna 150s.
Taking stuff off passengers and crew is worse than stupid. Remember that scene in Crocodile Dundee where the mugger pulled out a 4 inch knife and Mick Dundee countered with his 12 inch blade? Now picture a hijacker with a box cutter against a plane load of angry pax with leather mans, scissors etc.
There are plenty of ways to get weapons on board a commercial flight; disarming the honest people who might be able to fight back (isn't that the point?) makes no sense at all.
It is our fault; we elected these morons who are responsible for the situation we find ourselves in now.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: somewere
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While operating out of NWI airport last sumer in uniform i was violated by one off their female security staff and it will stay with me for life. She checked under the wire of my bra, round my waist, up my inside legs and there was some cupping of the bum cheeks.
I was so shocked that i never said anything until i saw her doing it to another member of staff ( it was the look of shock on her face that gave it away) What the hell did she think i had under my bra and bum cheeks. If i ever meet this over friendly person again i shall be having a strong word
I was so shocked that i never said anything until i saw her doing it to another member of staff ( it was the look of shock on her face that gave it away) What the hell did she think i had under my bra and bum cheeks. If i ever meet this over friendly person again i shall be having a strong word
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Consol
Operated through the "new" Doncaster airport last year. Went through the screening in uniform. I didn't beep the metal detector but was still called aside for a pat down by an older security "gentleman". Pat down was more like a full body massage. Then asked to show the soles of my shoes. Then asked to take out my wallet. He then proceeded to check behind each credit card, for what I don't know. Then asked me to take my ballpoint pen out of my shirt pocket and show him the nib. Has anybody else met this fine proffesional and what is his problem?
Last edited by Eaglestar7; 22nd May 2006 at 21:13.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: third rock from the sun
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Eaglestar's opinion excellently represents the problems we are facing. He/she actually thinks that he/she is doing the aviation comunity a favor by checking the insides of a pen. We have all gone absolutely mad.
Now if you find me in front of your security gate I will be totally polite and as long as there is no internal body checks, I will basically not complain, but that is just because I NEED TO GET TO WORK! And the company allows me only 45 minutes to get the plane ready so it seems the best way. But that means, in no way at all that I agree with it. Letīs say these guys slow me down for 20 minutes because of some idiotic searching through my bags. Now I have to preflight my plane in 25 minutes. And yes I know I am not suppost to take shortcuts, but in the end we all walk around the plane with a bit more speed and do a briefing with a bit higher speech rate. Good for air safety... NO WAY!
So what is it about my belt, my wings, my cup of coffee or my shoes which is so dangerous to air safety. I have at my disposal on board: A solid fire axe, scissors in the medical kit, a metal cutlery set, a leatherman (we have them standard in the cockpit, so no worries about getting them through security
). Apart of these seemingly harmless items, quite often i get a handgun in the cockpit, because of the standard rule, gun in cockpit, bullets in the back. Ultimately if all else fails I could basically dump the pressure at 30.000 feet and point the nose to mother earth.... Sorry to say it mister/misses but you have no alternative but to start TRUSTING us. I have been screened thoroughly enough, more then you have!
I hate this 1984 world that we have become. Security is out of control and we all have to except it, because of the terrible fear of terrorism. The most dangerous part of my day is the car ride to the airport, where I stand a 10.000 time higher change of getting killed then by a terrorist on a plane. That is fact, not your idiotic course 1, 2 or 3. But you go right ahead and keep making money of the aviation industry. Security tax in Amsterdam is now up to 28 euro per pax per trip.... At least I get my money's worth, I counted today the amount of security checks. No less then 8 times did I go through the old beeping gate. Pretty soon I won't need a reading light any more at night...
Now if you find me in front of your security gate I will be totally polite and as long as there is no internal body checks, I will basically not complain, but that is just because I NEED TO GET TO WORK! And the company allows me only 45 minutes to get the plane ready so it seems the best way. But that means, in no way at all that I agree with it. Letīs say these guys slow me down for 20 minutes because of some idiotic searching through my bags. Now I have to preflight my plane in 25 minutes. And yes I know I am not suppost to take shortcuts, but in the end we all walk around the plane with a bit more speed and do a briefing with a bit higher speech rate. Good for air safety... NO WAY!
So what is it about my belt, my wings, my cup of coffee or my shoes which is so dangerous to air safety. I have at my disposal on board: A solid fire axe, scissors in the medical kit, a metal cutlery set, a leatherman (we have them standard in the cockpit, so no worries about getting them through security
). Apart of these seemingly harmless items, quite often i get a handgun in the cockpit, because of the standard rule, gun in cockpit, bullets in the back. Ultimately if all else fails I could basically dump the pressure at 30.000 feet and point the nose to mother earth.... Sorry to say it mister/misses but you have no alternative but to start TRUSTING us. I have been screened thoroughly enough, more then you have!I hate this 1984 world that we have become. Security is out of control and we all have to except it, because of the terrible fear of terrorism. The most dangerous part of my day is the car ride to the airport, where I stand a 10.000 time higher change of getting killed then by a terrorist on a plane. That is fact, not your idiotic course 1, 2 or 3. But you go right ahead and keep making money of the aviation industry. Security tax in Amsterdam is now up to 28 euro per pax per trip.... At least I get my money's worth, I counted today the amount of security checks. No less then 8 times did I go through the old beeping gate. Pretty soon I won't need a reading light any more at night...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dublin
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These guys are only doing what there told to do, some do it more diligently than others and some are just downright rude and arrogant. Its the government, airport authority and the security companies that tell them what to do and expect us to put up with it.
The main instigator for all this nonesense in the U.K. is the DfT, Department for Transport and until they are made to listen to us, the people who actually use the airport and one of main reason they've got an airport in the first place and not the wannabe Andy McNabs and 007s that run the security companies then nothing is going to change.
The main instigator for all this nonesense in the U.K. is the DfT, Department for Transport and until they are made to listen to us, the people who actually use the airport and one of main reason they've got an airport in the first place and not the wannabe Andy McNabs and 007s that run the security companies then nothing is going to change.
Last edited by DogsDiner; 23rd May 2006 at 09:16.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for your reply Mike.
It more or less concurs with what Ive experienced, especially carrying tools whilst positioning as crew. (ie, on duty, uniformed, ID, etc)
Whilst I agree security checks are needed, as many posters have stated, it's completely out of control, where much of the so called 'security' has become just unjustified pointless hassle!
Perhaps this is something we could get BALPA to look into.There must be an alternative to the current state of affairs.
It more or less concurs with what Ive experienced, especially carrying tools whilst positioning as crew. (ie, on duty, uniformed, ID, etc)
Whilst I agree security checks are needed, as many posters have stated, it's completely out of control, where much of the so called 'security' has become just unjustified pointless hassle!
Perhaps this is something we could get BALPA to look into.There must be an alternative to the current state of affairs.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rijswijk NL
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The alternative???????
Recently the scareport security
in AMS tested new screening equipment.It's straight out of sfi-fi "Total recall"
and who do they test in on??
Aircrew offcourse!
The results were satisfactory for the security people but the guinneepigs objected.
Crewmembers had to walk thru a passage while they were being "scanned"
Security personel could monitor them on a screen without their clothes.
Every "foreign" object on their body was visible on the TV screens.
As a precaution the machine blanked out their faces.
Is this what we want instead of the magicwand treatment?
I am not so sure.
dnx
Wonderful race, the Romans
Eaglestar7
Please get a grip Eaglestar. The individual concerned was acting the idiot, plain and simple and if he wants to pprune he can without giving away top secret information. I afford a great deal more respect to security people who do there jobs well rather than make a point, throw their weight around or try to humiliate pilots by pointless and over the top security rituals. At some point in every system there has to be some people who are trustworthy or nothing works.
Please get a grip Eaglestar. The individual concerned was acting the idiot, plain and simple and if he wants to pprune he can without giving away top secret information. I afford a great deal more respect to security people who do there jobs well rather than make a point, throw their weight around or try to humiliate pilots by pointless and over the top security rituals. At some point in every system there has to be some people who are trustworthy or nothing works.
