Astraeus
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Oh dear! How many times do we have to say this?
I quote Hamrah
As an employee of Astraeus, I have as yet heard nothing. Therefore no-one can expect Hamrah to let 'gatwicknose' into the 'secret' first, can they?
Inside the company we have a MINIMUM of 26 rumours (A-Z) that are refreshed/expanded daily.
As he says, it is 'business' (and busy business) as usual right now, with all employees working hard at providing a good service to our customers.
A further quote from this thread
So, to sum it up:
discussions are in progress
it may or may not happen
if you are an Astraeus employee, you will be told as soon as possible of the result. The rest of the world will have to wait.
By all means let the rumours continue - that is what this site is about. Please re-read Hamrah's post above sentence by sentence. If you do not understand any of it, I will try to help you, but do NOT expect Hamrah or anyone else to be on here day after day to confirm or deny any of the random rumours (which have, incidentally, been 'flying' since I joined in 2004).
I quote Hamrah
Thanks for your interest, but the facts are simply this.
Astraeus is for sale. The sale might or might not complete. If the sale completes we will have a new owner. If it doesn't it will be business as usual.
There are lots of rumours. I can't comment on any one of them (legally).
If or when something is confirmed, the FIRST people we will tell will be the team, the people who are Astraeus.
Astraeus is for sale. The sale might or might not complete. If the sale completes we will have a new owner. If it doesn't it will be business as usual.
There are lots of rumours. I can't comment on any one of them (legally).
If or when something is confirmed, the FIRST people we will tell will be the team, the people who are Astraeus.
Inside the company we have a MINIMUM of 26 rumours (A-Z) that are refreshed/expanded daily.
As he says, it is 'business' (and busy business) as usual right now, with all employees working hard at providing a good service to our customers.
A further quote from this thread
Astraeus have appointed Cavendish Corporate Finance to negotiate with (unsolicited) would-be buyers.
However, Jonathan Hinkles (Commercial Director) said "Our existing shareholders are happy with the progress of the company and may conclude at the end of this process that we wish to retain the structure as it is"
Source: Airliner World - August 2006
However, Jonathan Hinkles (Commercial Director) said "Our existing shareholders are happy with the progress of the company and may conclude at the end of this process that we wish to retain the structure as it is"
Source: Airliner World - August 2006
discussions are in progress
it may or may not happen
if you are an Astraeus employee, you will be told as soon as possible of the result. The rest of the world will have to wait.
By all means let the rumours continue - that is what this site is about. Please re-read Hamrah's post above sentence by sentence. If you do not understand any of it, I will try to help you, but do NOT expect Hamrah or anyone else to be on here day after day to confirm or deny any of the random rumours (which have, incidentally, been 'flying' since I joined in 2004).
The Aquatone Article
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BOAC
That's a constructive, responsible and sound contribution, and entirely appropriate.
But for the rest of us, never forget that life is not always that tidy. In the real world you can't dismiss any rumour. Purchase negotiations involve many professional advisors and would-be buyers (and their advisors), and whatever professional ethics and Non-Disclosure Agreements may say, we're all human beings. And human beings can be staggeringly indiscreet, and they also tend to talk loudly in places where they shouldn't.
I found out that Dan Air had been bought for £1 by BA by eavesdropping on a conversation on the Gatwick Express, and knew about it before 99.8% of the Dan Air staff. And that was an event that had fairly profound implications for every one of them....
That's a constructive, responsible and sound contribution, and entirely appropriate.
But for the rest of us, never forget that life is not always that tidy. In the real world you can't dismiss any rumour. Purchase negotiations involve many professional advisors and would-be buyers (and their advisors), and whatever professional ethics and Non-Disclosure Agreements may say, we're all human beings. And human beings can be staggeringly indiscreet, and they also tend to talk loudly in places where they shouldn't.
I found out that Dan Air had been bought for £1 by BA by eavesdropping on a conversation on the Gatwick Express, and knew about it before 99.8% of the Dan Air staff. And that was an event that had fairly profound implications for every one of them....
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Oh no! Aztruck has just made that 27 and that is 2 under 'P'
Thunderball - hence the line in my post "By all means let the rumours continue - that is what this site is about." - it is just that 99.99% of all this is rubbish.
...and I was there for DanAir.
Thunderball - hence the line in my post "By all means let the rumours continue - that is what this site is about." - it is just that 99.99% of all this is rubbish.
...and I was there for DanAir.
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I think I can clear this up. XL recently placed a large order for furnishings for their new offices at explorer house. The Icelandic owners are heavy smokers so obviously the order included a large consignment of ASH TRAYS, which they ordered from the bulk trade supplier " ASH TRAYS R US".
This simple confusion with large ( although I heard nearer £400 quid) industial smoking accesory order may have started this nonsense. Hope this helps.
This simple confusion with large ( although I heard nearer £400 quid) industial smoking accesory order may have started this nonsense. Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by Farty Flaps
I think I can clear this up. XL recently placed a large order for furnishings for their new offices at explorer house. The Icelandic owners are heavy smokers so obviously the order included a large consignment of ASH TRAYS, which they ordered from the bulk trade supplier " ASH TRAYS R US".
This simple confusion with large ( although I heard nearer £400 quid) industial smoking accesory order may have started this nonsense. Hope this helps.
This simple confusion with large ( although I heard nearer £400 quid) industial smoking accesory order may have started this nonsense. Hope this helps.
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I think the rumours about XL buying Astraeus are rubbish!!
Astraeus has nothing really to bring to the party apart from a 757/767 TRTO which in itself isnt worth 10 million quid and i would like to bet that the sale would not include this anyway.
It is common knowledge that this airline from the very start was setup so one day it could be sold. It wasnt so much an airline but a plan to make a quick buck by those at the very top. Just ask any of the ex British World guys.
Astraeus has nothing really to bring to the party apart from a 757/767 TRTO which in itself isnt worth 10 million quid and i would like to bet that the sale would not include this anyway.
It is common knowledge that this airline from the very start was setup so one day it could be sold. It wasnt so much an airline but a plan to make a quick buck by those at the very top. Just ask any of the ex British World guys.
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Originally Posted by 3REDS
I think the rumours about XL buying Astraeus are rubbish!!
Astraeus has nothing really to bring to the party apart from a 757/767 TRTO
Astraeus has nothing really to bring to the party apart from a 757/767 TRTO
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XL will have ETOPs soon.
And anyway the 757 are not ETOPS in Astraeus. Only the 737 700's are, and if you ask me flying a 737 over the atlantic for 7/ 8 hrs plus from a pax comfort point of view is NUTS!!!
And anyway the 757 are not ETOPS in Astraeus. Only the 737 700's are, and if you ask me flying a 737 over the atlantic for 7/ 8 hrs plus from a pax comfort point of view is NUTS!!!
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Originally Posted by 3REDS
XL will have ETOPs soon.
And anyway the 757 are not ETOPS in Astraeus. Only the 737 700's are, and if you ask me flying a 737 over the atlantic for 7/ 8 hrs plus from a pax comfort point of view is NUTS!!!
And anyway the 757 are not ETOPS in Astraeus. Only the 737 700's are, and if you ask me flying a 737 over the atlantic for 7/ 8 hrs plus from a pax comfort point of view is NUTS!!!
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BOAC......PPRUNE= rumour site...conspiaracies and speculation are rife....Its obviously much more fun for the resy of us non AEU employees to speculate than for you...apologies if I struck a nerve....Whoever hamrah is, he is obviously well placed and well informed and usually quick to respond and comment with gravitas to anything the we all suggest or speculate upon...thats my point..pure and simple...pure speculation that is...I for one hope that AEU dont get sold to another carrier... a solid airline with good routes can stand on its own!!
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Gatwicknose
- probably why I have now posted twice
- or did you miss that?
- right on both counts
- ok, so you did NOT understand Hamrah's (or my) post. Get someone to explain them to you.
- I do not have nerves. Just fed up with people who cannot read.
Thank you for your final comments.
3Reds
The very same Hamrah has pointed out in past threads on ETOPS to Deer Lake that it is a far quicker rotation than many of our 737 flights. My 'personal best' was 4hrs 20m airborne YDF-LGW - a touch short of 8 hours?
BOAC......PPRUNE= rumour site...conspiaracies and speculation are rife
By all means let the rumours continue - that is what this site is about.
Whoever hamrah is, he is obviously well placed and well informed
and usually quick to respond and comment with gravitas to anything the we all suggest or speculate upon
apologies if I struck a nerve
Thank you for your final comments.
3Reds
The very same Hamrah has pointed out in past threads on ETOPS to Deer Lake that it is a far quicker rotation than many of our 737 flights. My 'personal best' was 4hrs 20m airborne YDF-LGW - a touch short of 8 hours?
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[QUOAnd is different in what way from 6.15 hrs on a hurgarda or sharm in the winter.TE][/QUOTE]
6.15 to Hurgarda !!! That is slow. Farty Flaps, thanks for proving my point that a 737 is not such a great A/C for long haul routes/etops. It was never designed to operate on such long flights.
6.15 to Hurgarda !!! That is slow. Farty Flaps, thanks for proving my point that a 737 is not such a great A/C for long haul routes/etops. It was never designed to operate on such long flights.
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Farty- that AshTrays thing was very funny.
This thread has got me thinking. What value has an airline with leased aeroplanes to another airline? They can just go lease more of their own without buying the whole business. I would have thought an airline such as Astraeus had intrinsic value to a non airline purchaser only- buying a ready made up airline business? A large part of Astraeus' work is away from London, so I'm not sure what value you could put on slots? Are many slots involved?
I can't help feeling a bit of trepidation. Looking at the whole history of airline mergers/takeovers, it tends to go badly for the junior partner (and its employees). Remembering Orion, Dan and numerous others. Crews of the dominant partner don't want to give up seniority, groundstaff often are duplicating jobs and departments already running happily in the dominant business, fleets maybe not very adaptable to the combined business.
Perhaps someone who has been through it all before could explain how such mergers and takeovers impact the junior partner because I don't really understand it all! I just fly the darn hardware and do as I'm told!
This thread has got me thinking. What value has an airline with leased aeroplanes to another airline? They can just go lease more of their own without buying the whole business. I would have thought an airline such as Astraeus had intrinsic value to a non airline purchaser only- buying a ready made up airline business? A large part of Astraeus' work is away from London, so I'm not sure what value you could put on slots? Are many slots involved?
I can't help feeling a bit of trepidation. Looking at the whole history of airline mergers/takeovers, it tends to go badly for the junior partner (and its employees). Remembering Orion, Dan and numerous others. Crews of the dominant partner don't want to give up seniority, groundstaff often are duplicating jobs and departments already running happily in the dominant business, fleets maybe not very adaptable to the combined business.
Perhaps someone who has been through it all before could explain how such mergers and takeovers impact the junior partner because I don't really understand it all! I just fly the darn hardware and do as I'm told!
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Well, Rainboe - as one (DanAir) who was 'stuffed' by one (BA) I can tell you that it hurts. On the other hand, BCAL pilots did well out of it.
The 'value' can also be expressed in 'goodwill' ie existing contracts, which should go to the new owner, as in the 28 routes BA acquired from DanAir.
However - back to Hamrah - wait and see. It might not hurt at all. One thing is for sure, no-one posting here knows.
The 'value' can also be expressed in 'goodwill' ie existing contracts, which should go to the new owner, as in the 28 routes BA acquired from DanAir.
However - back to Hamrah - wait and see. It might not hurt at all. One thing is for sure, no-one posting here knows.
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The dominant company staff will resent any surrender of seniority to the consumed company. Dan was gobbled up in a weak condition, BCAL was still fairly powerful and politically supported, hence that 'merger' was a different story. As far as the existing contracts are concerned, rather than buy a whole lot of intangibles and staff probably unneeded, why not simply underbid next time those contracts come up? Rather than specifically Astraeus matters, of which I am happy not to speculate at all and await firm news, I am interested in how such takeovers work out, and any lessons from the numerous previous takeovers in the charter industry where it really has been how big a fish you are, and how small a fish the other guy is, or whether you are Icelandic with a large wad of dollars in your back pocket! Being in BA all along, we were (or felt) very much immune to that, though there are a few jitters in BA at the moment about our own petrodollars from the Gulf coming back to haunt us.
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Today I got mail from West and East Africa, Canada, India,lots of Postcards from Greek islands as well as a few from santa's grotto at the Arctic circle. Some fishermen from Murmansk dropped me a line, and the Icelandics said ta for dropping all their airfares to Stansted. Even the French were happy and said please can I come back to visit Chambery more often. I said I would but in between I'd have to drop off in Algeria and the Cape verde islands.
Lots of people in Egypt and Jordan said hi and.in former times, Israel as well.
The bank says thanks cos its full of 90 million quid a year turnover, and I say thanks because i've never been paid late.
FYI 3reds Britworld was on the verge of going under well before anyone from Astraeus got near it.
If you think all of the above is worthless then thousands of passengers beg to differ.
BTW you'd best speak to the chaps at Boeing and tell them why their BBJ isnt suitable for people who fly across the Pacific.
6.15 is quite possible from HRG to LGW in the Winter, bit quicker on the way out tho!
Lots of people in Egypt and Jordan said hi and.in former times, Israel as well.
The bank says thanks cos its full of 90 million quid a year turnover, and I say thanks because i've never been paid late.
FYI 3reds Britworld was on the verge of going under well before anyone from Astraeus got near it.
If you think all of the above is worthless then thousands of passengers beg to differ.
BTW you'd best speak to the chaps at Boeing and tell them why their BBJ isnt suitable for people who fly across the Pacific.
6.15 is quite possible from HRG to LGW in the Winter, bit quicker on the way out tho!
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AZTRUCK
From what i am lead to believe British World was sunk by the management in order to make way for Astreaus. Funny enough these same managers now became owners and flew the old routes and aircraft that the late British World once had!!
The BBJ is suitable for the longhaul / atlantic crossings BECAUSE it isnt packed with 100+pax hence the name Boeing Business Jet. Sitting there in your 80'' pitch seat with 4 other people isnt quite the same as sitting on a 737-700 now is it?
The 737 is also quite slow at mach 0.79 which over a long distance makes a big difference compared to say 747-400 mach 0.84, 777 mach 0.84/85 and finally 767-300 mach 0.82.
Back to aircraft recognition school for you my friend
From what i am lead to believe British World was sunk by the management in order to make way for Astreaus. Funny enough these same managers now became owners and flew the old routes and aircraft that the late British World once had!!
The BBJ is suitable for the longhaul / atlantic crossings BECAUSE it isnt packed with 100+pax hence the name Boeing Business Jet. Sitting there in your 80'' pitch seat with 4 other people isnt quite the same as sitting on a 737-700 now is it?
The 737 is also quite slow at mach 0.79 which over a long distance makes a big difference compared to say 747-400 mach 0.84, 777 mach 0.84/85 and finally 767-300 mach 0.82.
Back to aircraft recognition school for you my friend