NCL-MAN Route?
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NCL-MAN Route?
Was there not some talk some time ago about a NCL-MAN route? I am sure I read in a local newspaper that a carrier was looking at this but I havent seen anything else.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
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I have never heard of this idea but If it did go through contenders to me would be Eastern Airways or some other regional operator. Thanks for bringing this comment to light NCLBASE. Very intresting news!
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I think a NCL-MAN route would be great for the North East - I know many people from the region travel from MAN to long haul destinations and have to either drive or rely upon the rail.
Lets keep fingers crossed!
Lets keep fingers crossed!
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Originally Posted by pwalhx
I think in the various rumours that were spread about Easyjet and manchester, a Manchester -Newcastle route was mentioned.
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EGBE0523,
Danair did NCL-MAN-BOH-BHX-MAN-NCL in the morning, and reverse dirction in the evening....and it was a Nord262. It used to shut down the left engine to let the pax[dis]embark, fire it up and away. Turn round less than 5 mins
[don't tell Ryanair ]
For non-IATA peeps the route was...EGNT-EGCC-EGHH-EGBB-EGNT
And I think CWL/EGFF featured on these rotations....
watp,iktch
Danair did NCL-MAN-BOH-BHX-MAN-NCL in the morning, and reverse dirction in the evening....and it was a Nord262. It used to shut down the left engine to let the pax[dis]embark, fire it up and away. Turn round less than 5 mins
[don't tell Ryanair
]For non-IATA peeps the route was...EGNT-EGCC-EGHH-EGBB-EGNT
And I think CWL/EGFF featured on these rotations....
watp,iktch
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It's under 2 1/2 hours drive from Manchester to Newcastle, and approx the same on the train.
Doesn't really make sense to fly unless the fares are competitive with other transport modes and door to door times are quicker. Flight time must be about 20-25 mins in a jet a/c, subject to routing, but the "check-in" to "out of the airport door" times must be similar to car/train times.
Don't know enough about potential pax loads on the route, but I'd certainly use it if the price was right.
Doesn't really make sense to fly unless the fares are competitive with other transport modes and door to door times are quicker. Flight time must be about 20-25 mins in a jet a/c, subject to routing, but the "check-in" to "out of the airport door" times must be similar to car/train times.
Don't know enough about potential pax loads on the route, but I'd certainly use it if the price was right.
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wont happen
the trouble with man is that you can spend half an hour getting in and taxing arround when its busy..smae with BHX but its only 2 and a half hours by car fm ncl..the train is about the same and when you add up the time to travel to the apt check in wt for your flt , fly to man I bet you dont save much time over the drive.
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ncl-man route
Gill Airways certainly did have at least a twice business-daily service MAN/NCL/MAN using Shorts 330/360 aircraft and NEAS (now Swissport) was the handling company in NCL receiving them.
.
The route economics was similiar to any short-haul private company, at that was peak demand from businessmen early into NCL or MAN and later back who may or may not turn up and usually had fully flexible refundable cpns
.
European Airways(L8) co-operated on this route for a small time trying out the market NCL/MAN/and onwards to France but didn't last long as not easy to market a J31 16 SEATER with payload limited sectors and a strategy that seemed to change daily in the marketing of this route.
.
Landing and handling fees at both NCL and MAN ate any profit margin very quickly so it needs a HS146 reasonably fully loaded with no refundable tkts to get the revenue stream attractive to attempt to market again.
.
Both NCL/MAN and NCL/SOU suffered from PAYLOAD whether it be a S330/360 or J31 and that is because it was very limited on ZFW/TOW/RLW for load control planning which often left genuine full fare commuter businessmen behind (particularly NCL/SOU) which became an early version of a codeshare between Gill Airways (9C)and European Airways (L8).
.
(For info..European Airways started life in NCL as(HY) which was the code of the financial arm of Uzbekistan Airways and the aircraft was leased from Maersk in BHX I recall)
PROBLEMS WITH NCL/MAN/NCL and NCL/SOU/NCL were
1/Mostly male passengers commuting
NORTH/SOUTH
NORTHEAST/NORTHWEST
.
2/Reasonable fuel and diversion fuel uplift required over Pennines due not Cat 3b !!
3/Baggage (that dreaded word that Flybe/Ryanair/easyJet don't want to hear)
.
The competition on NCL/MAN is the roadways 2.5 hrs NCL/MAN
A69 to Carlisle
M6 to Knutsford for the airport or earlier turn to city centre
THEN any combination to get through the jams to MAN
or
A1 5 MILES from NCL A/P and turn onto M62/3 over Pennines.
.
Train services of any speed were discounted as genuine competition.
.
I hope this helps those with fond memories of these routes and also any airline that may wish to evaluate rekindling the sectors but you will need deep pockets or good start-up marketing discounts with the airport authorities in both NCL and MAN plus ultra-cheap ground handling if you are to make a commercial viability success of this route against competition of the roads.
Maybe the answer is easyBus MAN/NCL/MAN !!!!!!
.
.
The route economics was similiar to any short-haul private company, at that was peak demand from businessmen early into NCL or MAN and later back who may or may not turn up and usually had fully flexible refundable cpns
.
European Airways(L8) co-operated on this route for a small time trying out the market NCL/MAN/and onwards to France but didn't last long as not easy to market a J31 16 SEATER with payload limited sectors and a strategy that seemed to change daily in the marketing of this route.
.
Landing and handling fees at both NCL and MAN ate any profit margin very quickly so it needs a HS146 reasonably fully loaded with no refundable tkts to get the revenue stream attractive to attempt to market again.
.
Both NCL/MAN and NCL/SOU suffered from PAYLOAD whether it be a S330/360 or J31 and that is because it was very limited on ZFW/TOW/RLW for load control planning which often left genuine full fare commuter businessmen behind (particularly NCL/SOU) which became an early version of a codeshare between Gill Airways (9C)and European Airways (L8).
.
(For info..European Airways started life in NCL as(HY) which was the code of the financial arm of Uzbekistan Airways and the aircraft was leased from Maersk in BHX I recall)
PROBLEMS WITH NCL/MAN/NCL and NCL/SOU/NCL were
1/Mostly male passengers commuting
NORTH/SOUTH
NORTHEAST/NORTHWEST
.
2/Reasonable fuel and diversion fuel uplift required over Pennines due not Cat 3b !!
3/Baggage (that dreaded word that Flybe/Ryanair/easyJet don't want to hear)
.
The competition on NCL/MAN is the roadways 2.5 hrs NCL/MAN
A69 to Carlisle
M6 to Knutsford for the airport or earlier turn to city centre
THEN any combination to get through the jams to MAN
or
A1 5 MILES from NCL A/P and turn onto M62/3 over Pennines.
.
Train services of any speed were discounted as genuine competition.
.
I hope this helps those with fond memories of these routes and also any airline that may wish to evaluate rekindling the sectors but you will need deep pockets or good start-up marketing discounts with the airport authorities in both NCL and MAN plus ultra-cheap ground handling if you are to make a commercial viability success of this route against competition of the roads.
Maybe the answer is easyBus MAN/NCL/MAN !!!!!!
.
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Remember Metropolitan Airways? If I remember right they flew Manchester-Birmingham-Bournemouth on Mon,Wed & Fri and Manchester-(Bristol or Carfiff)-Bournemouth on Tue and Thu. Showing my age now!
Originally Posted by GOLF-INDIA BRAVO
But can you remember the Nord 262 that Dan Air used on their link city services back in early 70`s
For business travellers the difficulty with such a route is low frequency. Two flights a day ends up cutting out a lot of potential who just can't fit into the schedule. There are the "going for a meeting" people, where 10.30 to 15.30 is wanted, maybe even that's a bit long, and there's the "doing a chargeable day" people, where 09.00 to 17.30 is required at the office being visited. The train generally is able to offer both options, but car is completely flexible.
And with just one homeward flight you can't have flexibility in your day. If the meeting runs on you can be stuffed. Even though you may never have actually transferred to the last departure of the day, it's nice to know it's there. Your car will always wait for you.
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Alas I can remember the Dan-Air DC3s used on Bristol - Cardiff - Liverpool/Manchester - Teesside - Newcastle that were an even earlier incarnation of this.
For business travellers the difficulty with such a route is low frequency. Two flights a day ends up cutting out a lot of potential who just can't fit into the schedule. There are the "going for a meeting" people, where 10.30 to 15.30 is wanted, maybe even that's a bit long, and there's the "doing a chargeable day" people, where 09.00 to 17.30 is required at the office being visited. The train generally is able to offer both options, but car is completely flexible.
And with just one homeward flight you can't have flexibility in your day. If the meeting runs on you can be stuffed. Even though you may never have actually transferred to the last departure of the day, it's nice to know it's there. Your car will always wait for you.
For business travellers the difficulty with such a route is low frequency. Two flights a day ends up cutting out a lot of potential who just can't fit into the schedule. There are the "going for a meeting" people, where 10.30 to 15.30 is wanted, maybe even that's a bit long, and there's the "doing a chargeable day" people, where 09.00 to 17.30 is required at the office being visited. The train generally is able to offer both options, but car is completely flexible.
And with just one homeward flight you can't have flexibility in your day. If the meeting runs on you can be stuffed. Even though you may never have actually transferred to the last departure of the day, it's nice to know it's there. Your car will always wait for you.
Dont think the Man - Ncl would work unless it was high frequency and very low cost. Wont happen!.
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Dan-Air's milk run used to be flown by Doves in the early-mid 1960s, and the routings seemed to vary from one season to the next. Sometimes MAN was included, sometimes LPL. Before BOH was added on the end they finished in either BRS or CWL.
I remember when the Doves were withdrawn, the two of them putting on an amazing impromptu display, beating up the airfield with some crazy flying.
There was also Cunard Eagle Sunday flight MAN-NCL-BGO (Bergen) with a DC6, at that time the biggest aircraft ever to visit NCL. Don't know if it carried local traffic MAN-NCL though.
Anyway, in those days it took half a day to do the journey either by road or by rail.
I remember when the Doves were withdrawn, the two of them putting on an amazing impromptu display, beating up the airfield with some crazy flying.
There was also Cunard Eagle Sunday flight MAN-NCL-BGO (Bergen) with a DC6, at that time the biggest aircraft ever to visit NCL. Don't know if it carried local traffic MAN-NCL though.
Anyway, in those days it took half a day to do the journey either by road or by rail.
Originally Posted by fl dutchman
Dont forget the Airspeed Ambassadors (Elizabethans) also used on this and other DA and B. K. S. routes.
When the Ambassador fired up its engines at Liverpool in the morning the exhaust smoke was probably visible from Manchester tower !
I remember when the Doves were withdrawn, the two of them putting on an amazing impromptu display, beating up the airfield with some crazy flying.
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DAN AIR Elizebethans
Originally Posted by WHBM
Don't think Dan-Air used Ambassadors on this route - too large. But they did use them on a Liverpool - Amsterdam daily schedule for some years. They certainly picked up an extraordinary selection of routes.
When the Ambassador fired up its engines at Liverpool in the morning the exhaust smoke was probably visible from Manchester tower !
Hopefully not with the pax on board
When the Ambassador fired up its engines at Liverpool in the morning the exhaust smoke was probably visible from Manchester tower !
Hopefully not with the pax on board