DUBLIN
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
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Given that Air India comes in the best tradition of "Indian business practices", if they did get into T2 would the roof not fall in, the airbridges collapse and the Executive Lounge be declared unfit for human habitation?
This would be followed by a news conference with a spokesman telling the world that everything was fine. That of course would never happen in the real world.......would it?
Hmm you should look closely at Air India?!? This is something of a past-time where they throw money at friends, relatives and shiny new toys before unveiling the magical airliners.net dartboard of route planning.
Sophisticated and competent they are not!
This would be followed by a news conference with a spokesman telling the world that everything was fine. That of course would never happen in the real world.......would it?
After all airlines don't want to be throwing money away.
Sophisticated and competent they are not!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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But that $14million saving was based on their FRA hub system, Id bet they are saving a shed load more by operating non stop.
1 stop: Airport Fees at Indian end, Fees at DUB and then fees at USA end. Also higher fuel costs as you have 2 climb outs and 2 decents
0 stop: Fees at Indian end, fees at USA end and lower fuel costs as the intermidiate decend/climb has been eliminated.
1 stop: Airport Fees at Indian end, Fees at DUB and then fees at USA end. Also higher fuel costs as you have 2 climb outs and 2 decents
0 stop: Fees at Indian end, fees at USA end and lower fuel costs as the intermidiate decend/climb has been eliminated.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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rather than some half ass airlines that stays for a few months and fecks off after getting a there palms crossed with a few coins as a bribe too use Dublin
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Just for info, it is sometimes cheaper to land and refuel then endure the higher fuel burn of carrying the extra 60 tonnes of fuel to Chicago.Figure it out.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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To add my tuppence worth to the whole DAA / Air India lark, I think Declan Collier and co. would be better off focusing their attention on Kingfisher rather than Air India as they are more ripe for the type of package on offer.
Think about it - all long haul flights which Kingfisher serve (London being the furthest away) use Airbus A330's which are obviously suitable for Dublin and the airline are planning to expand their network to, among others, North America. They are awaiting delivery of new aircraft to do this and most of those on order are A330's also so it makes sense that Dublin could be their scissors hub.
They don't strike me as a cargo carrying airline so take-off weight should not be a problem for Dublin's runway. After all, I flew non-stop from DUB to Cape Town with LTU a few years ago and there were no issues...and that was a 12 hour flight. The likes of Delhi and Bangalore would only be about 10 hours.
Most importantly, there are a Skytrax rated 5 star airline. I flew with them internally from Bangalore to Mumbai and they were excellent. So you can imagine what their international flights are like. I think they would be a great coup for the DAA, especially with all the trade Ireland is now doing with India.
And were there not rumblings that a few Indian and Chinese airlines were interested in serving Dublin once Terminal 2 opened? Hopefully Kingfisher were one of these.
So maybe there's some life still in this story after all!
Think about it - all long haul flights which Kingfisher serve (London being the furthest away) use Airbus A330's which are obviously suitable for Dublin and the airline are planning to expand their network to, among others, North America. They are awaiting delivery of new aircraft to do this and most of those on order are A330's also so it makes sense that Dublin could be their scissors hub.
They don't strike me as a cargo carrying airline so take-off weight should not be a problem for Dublin's runway. After all, I flew non-stop from DUB to Cape Town with LTU a few years ago and there were no issues...and that was a 12 hour flight. The likes of Delhi and Bangalore would only be about 10 hours.
Most importantly, there are a Skytrax rated 5 star airline. I flew with them internally from Bangalore to Mumbai and they were excellent. So you can imagine what their international flights are like. I think they would be a great coup for the DAA, especially with all the trade Ireland is now doing with India.
And were there not rumblings that a few Indian and Chinese airlines were interested in serving Dublin once Terminal 2 opened? Hopefully Kingfisher were one of these.
So maybe there's some life still in this story after all!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: dublin
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The issue with the LTU flights was it just carried pax and bags no cargo, in order to make that kinda route work, cargo would need to be carried to increase revenues, Yes the LTU A330 would have made it from Dublin but i wud guess would be airbourne close to St Margarets to get enough steam built up to take off.
The LTU flights were fanfastic to deal with and did prove that a long haul market all be it seasonal does exist, but least we forget the A2B airlines before that, that couldnt make it with a 767 and had to stop in PMI?
I think that the DAA may just surprise us all and pull a rabbit so to speak out of the hat, maybe even steal the BA LCY-SNN-JFK gig from SNN as it has just been far far too rumour free on here and other outlets and the various smoking areas around the airport where so much meathy gossip passes from company to company!!!!
The LTU flights were fanfastic to deal with and did prove that a long haul market all be it seasonal does exist, but least we forget the A2B airlines before that, that couldnt make it with a 767 and had to stop in PMI?
I think that the DAA may just surprise us all and pull a rabbit so to speak out of the hat, maybe even steal the BA LCY-SNN-JFK gig from SNN as it has just been far far too rumour free on here and other outlets and the various smoking areas around the airport where so much meathy gossip passes from company to company!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Think about it - all long haul flights which Kingfisher serve (London being the furthest away) use Airbus A330's which are obviously suitable for Dublin and the airline are planning to expand their network to, among others, North America. They are awaiting delivery of new aircraft to do this and most of those on order are A330's also so it makes sense that Dublin could be their scissors hub.
I suppose dreaming big is fine as we all need ambition, but why not start on a smalle scale, and then when its proven it works, use it to attract more carriers, because at the moment, DUB has NO airline actually operating a scheduled XXX-DUB-USA route.
For example, Biman Bangladesh is looking to restart its DAC-MAN-JFK routing. Im sure this route, even if it is just 2 weekly would have been perfect for that pre clearance thingy and a chance for DUB to show how exactly it is done, even though I still dont see the huge attraction of it? But in its ambition to secure an Indian hub, maybe the DAA missed this one. Yes BG may have no intention of serving DUB, but surely the DAA could have at least contacted them about it?
Secondly, If A330's with Kingfisher are in the running, then personally, I think BHX will offer much more. One of the largest Indian communities outside the Indian subcontinent, Cargo oppertunities, small airport for quick turn-around and less competition on the North American routes so more chance to fill up the cabins in both directions.
DUB may have a fair few pax travelling to India, especially on EY, but maybe this is the vast bulk of them? I mean, why no EK or QR yet to suppliment EY? Why no other indian carriers saying 'If AI dont want DUB, we will'?
Im sorry, but I just dont see why would someone like Kingfisher turn down the above at BHX just to save its pax a few minutes at ORD/EWR/JFK etc?
I suppose dreaming big is fine as we all need ambition, but why not start on a smalle scale, and then when its proven it works, use it to attract more carriers, because at the moment, DUB has NO airline actually operating a scheduled XXX-DUB-USA route.
For example, Biman Bangladesh is looking to restart its DAC-MAN-JFK routing. Im sure this route, even if it is just 2 weekly would have been perfect for that pre clearance thingy and a chance for DUB to show how exactly it is done, even though I still dont see the huge attraction of it? But in its ambition to secure an Indian hub, maybe the DAA missed this one. Yes BG may have no intention of serving DUB, but surely the DAA could have at least contacted them about it?
Secondly, If A330's with Kingfisher are in the running, then personally, I think BHX will offer much more. One of the largest Indian communities outside the Indian subcontinent, Cargo oppertunities, small airport for quick turn-around and less competition on the North American routes so more chance to fill up the cabins in both directions.
DUB may have a fair few pax travelling to India, especially on EY, but maybe this is the vast bulk of them? I mean, why no EK or QR yet to suppliment EY? Why no other indian carriers saying 'If AI dont want DUB, we will'?
Im sorry, but I just dont see why would someone like Kingfisher turn down the above at BHX just to save its pax a few minutes at ORD/EWR/JFK etc?
Join Date: Feb 2001
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1. With BG's really poor on-time performance, there will be huge issues with CBP provision. There is very little trade between Ireland and Bangladesh also, whilst Manchester has a significant expat population.
2. How do you know that the DAA have not spoken to Biman?
2. How do you know that the DAA have not spoken to Biman?
Join Date: Feb 2010
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With BG's really poor on-time performance, there will be huge issues with CBP provision
And Air Indias performance is near perfect is it? ATQ-BHX-YYZ was know not to turn up until the next day in some instances! Didnt stop the DAA persuing them though!
Also, when you are trying to make pre clearance pay, is it worth turning away any chances that could come your way?
How do you know that the DAA have not spoken to Biman?
Judging by the Air India statements comming from the DAA, Im sure they would have said something RE biman if they were on the hunt also.
There is very little trade between Ireland and Bangladesh also, whilst Manchester has a significant expat population.
Yes MAN has the larger population, but it only has up to 90 seats allocated anyway. Therefore theres no pressure for DUB to fill up the plane, and also as seen as so many think there are so many pax going to India, could be another (cheap) way to get there for DUB pax?
And Air Indias performance is near perfect is it? ATQ-BHX-YYZ was know not to turn up until the next day in some instances! Didnt stop the DAA persuing them though!
Also, when you are trying to make pre clearance pay, is it worth turning away any chances that could come your way?
How do you know that the DAA have not spoken to Biman?
Judging by the Air India statements comming from the DAA, Im sure they would have said something RE biman if they were on the hunt also.
There is very little trade between Ireland and Bangladesh also, whilst Manchester has a significant expat population.
Yes MAN has the larger population, but it only has up to 90 seats allocated anyway. Therefore theres no pressure for DUB to fill up the plane, and also as seen as so many think there are so many pax going to India, could be another (cheap) way to get there for DUB pax?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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It will all come down too how much it is going to be worth an airline to call into DUB and how much they can get in bribes I mean grants to put pax thru the CBP etc.
As time is ticking on one would think that airline would want to start announcing plans for post opening so that they can at least start selling seats/cargo space etc etc even if it is only a few seats or one or two pallet positions on an airacraft.
I am surprised the the DAA have not at least indicated that additional carriers may be at least thinking about DUB as an option?
As time is ticking on one would think that airline would want to start announcing plans for post opening so that they can at least start selling seats/cargo space etc etc even if it is only a few seats or one or two pallet positions on an airacraft.
I am surprised the the DAA have not at least indicated that additional carriers may be at least thinking about DUB as an option?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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The issue is that most "good" carriers don't want the hassle and expense of a stop en-route, most passengers want to get there in one hop. Hence the only people you'll get are carriers who don't have the equipment to do it in one go or those using Skippy's Patented Airliners.net Magic Dartboard of Route Planning.
Neither would be exepcted to last long. BA use Shannon for the A318 because they have no choice. Most carriers have a choice to use appropriate equipment and fly direct. With the greatest respect, Ireland is quite seasonal with regard to the US routes as capacity rightly collapses in the winter. This added cost coupled with the need to pay landing and handling charges at three airports instead of two is less than ideal.
Also what would be the point of US-DUB-xxx given there is no advantage on the way back? It would little more than a fuel stop which is fine, but hardly worth the hoohaa that's being spun here.
Neither would be exepcted to last long. BA use Shannon for the A318 because they have no choice. Most carriers have a choice to use appropriate equipment and fly direct. With the greatest respect, Ireland is quite seasonal with regard to the US routes as capacity rightly collapses in the winter. This added cost coupled with the need to pay landing and handling charges at three airports instead of two is less than ideal.
Also what would be the point of US-DUB-xxx given there is no advantage on the way back? It would little more than a fuel stop which is fine, but hardly worth the hoohaa that's being spun here.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I agree 100%, it will be a plane spotters paradise for a few months with all the wacky and crazy colour schemes and airliners in, then when the economic realities hit, its good bye dublin and hello majove desert parking!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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The issue is that most "good" carriers don't want the hassle and expense of a stop en-route, most passengers want to get there in one hop. Hence the only people you'll get are carriers who don't have the equipment to do it in one go
I actually agree with you here. Thats what I was trying to put across regarding the DAA going after indian carriers who can do it non stop, whereas BG require the stop en-route so could have been ripe for DUB. Like I said, 2 weekly may not seem a lot, but when you have just opened a brand new terminal and raving about the pre clearance facility, you need all the airlines you can to make it work.
Its the same with PIA. they are required by US border clearance to stop their LHE-JFK route at MAN for additional security checks. Now, I know again they are happy with MAN (and may get shot down by MAN supporters for this), but why dont the DAA go after them.
Its only a 3 weekly 1-way service, but isnt that sort of flight exactly perfect for pre clearance?
With thos 2 carriers, you already have 7 weekly flights, 7 sources of revenue and all that business for pre-clearance?
I actually agree with you here. Thats what I was trying to put across regarding the DAA going after indian carriers who can do it non stop, whereas BG require the stop en-route so could have been ripe for DUB. Like I said, 2 weekly may not seem a lot, but when you have just opened a brand new terminal and raving about the pre clearance facility, you need all the airlines you can to make it work.
Its the same with PIA. they are required by US border clearance to stop their LHE-JFK route at MAN for additional security checks. Now, I know again they are happy with MAN (and may get shot down by MAN supporters for this), but why dont the DAA go after them.
Its only a 3 weekly 1-way service, but isnt that sort of flight exactly perfect for pre clearance?
With thos 2 carriers, you already have 7 weekly flights, 7 sources of revenue and all that business for pre-clearance?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I think at this stage the DAA would be talking with any one with an airplane that wants to cross the atlantic to north america and vica versa regardless of how outlandish at this stage it appears.
So far on here i think we have mentioned:
AIR INDIA
VIRGIN
AIR BALTIC
CYPRUS AIRWAYS
BIMAN
PIA
BA
Not exactly a full list that would inspire, although I doubt any are really serious, I still believe that someone who has managed to get a second hand 767-200 or some such aircarft on good leasing terms will try, but only time will tell, but on current airlines T2 CBP will be in effect closed by mid afternoon most days of the week, hardly a good use after all the talk of its benefits to customers.
So far on here i think we have mentioned:
AIR INDIA
VIRGIN
AIR BALTIC
CYPRUS AIRWAYS
BIMAN
PIA
BA
Not exactly a full list that would inspire, although I doubt any are really serious, I still believe that someone who has managed to get a second hand 767-200 or some such aircarft on good leasing terms will try, but only time will tell, but on current airlines T2 CBP will be in effect closed by mid afternoon most days of the week, hardly a good use after all the talk of its benefits to customers.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I think T2 is a beautifully planned and designed modern facility and as a gateway one we can be proud of. I'll dismiss your negativity dispatch and banish you to spend the rest of your travelling life with the great unwashed in T1. :-)
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Not exactly a full list that would inspire
Not exactly a full list that would come true either.
Virgin- No way they would come to DUB for a border clearance stop. It wouldnt make any viable commercial sense at all
BA- I think the LCY-USA services will continue to use SNN even when DUB opens. SNN is a smaller quieter airport, so the BA is a quick in-out. DUB could have delays as is busier both on the tarmac and through security.
CY- they dont have plans to serve the USA and dont even serve DUB on a scheduled basis, so little chance of that happening
BT- maybe? They seem to be a carrier on an expansion iniciative, and they could have long haul plans up their sleeve. Would imagine they go direct though as even their B757's are capable of doing it non-stop.
PK/BG- These 2 could have been perfect candidates for DUB, but like I mentioned earlier, they are happily entrenched at MAN no so I fear the DAA have missed the boat now.
Not exactly a full list that would come true either.
Virgin- No way they would come to DUB for a border clearance stop. It wouldnt make any viable commercial sense at all
BA- I think the LCY-USA services will continue to use SNN even when DUB opens. SNN is a smaller quieter airport, so the BA is a quick in-out. DUB could have delays as is busier both on the tarmac and through security.
CY- they dont have plans to serve the USA and dont even serve DUB on a scheduled basis, so little chance of that happening
BT- maybe? They seem to be a carrier on an expansion iniciative, and they could have long haul plans up their sleeve. Would imagine they go direct though as even their B757's are capable of doing it non-stop.
PK/BG- These 2 could have been perfect candidates for DUB, but like I mentioned earlier, they are happily entrenched at MAN no so I fear the DAA have missed the boat now.