Carpatair Romania - Anybody know anything about them????
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Carpatair Romania - Anybody know anything about them????
Can't find out much about these guys, besides they have some Saabs and Fokkers but what are they like to work for??
Any info much appreciated.
Any info much appreciated.
A starting point is
Where you will find more info on a little operation that seems to have slowly and steadily expanded since perestroika.
Base is city of Timisoara in western Romania, in the Carpathian mountains (hence the airline's name). They started with ex-Crossair/Swiss Saab 340s, and have moved on to 2000s from the same source.
Back in socialist days all international business in Romania was through Bucharest, towards the east of the country. Timisoara is in the west, near the Serbian and Hungarian borders, and Carpatair's focus has been to develop an alternative network from there west, to Italy (in particular), Germany and elsewhere.
They also have a unique style of operation with a very low density hub operation. Aircraft start the day at a range of other Romanian cities, all arriving at Timisoara together, then to depart to the various western points. In the afternoon the reverse happens. The ramp at Timisoara must be manic twice a day, otherwise deserted. Most destinations are thus just once daily or even less, and aircraft utilisation is low. A lot of overnight aways for the crews as well, presumably, as few aircraft start the day at base.
I guess the fleet's about 10 aircraft at present, it's been quite fluid over the years with aircraft going back and forward to Swiss.
There are long-established cultural links betwen Romania and Italy (think Romania, think Roman, the language also is from a common root) and much of the emigration from Romania in recent years has been to Italy. Timisoara and Carpathia have to be among the poorest regions of Europe, and presumably Carpatair's base costs and salaries reflect this.
Where you will find more info on a little operation that seems to have slowly and steadily expanded since perestroika.
Base is city of Timisoara in western Romania, in the Carpathian mountains (hence the airline's name). They started with ex-Crossair/Swiss Saab 340s, and have moved on to 2000s from the same source.
Back in socialist days all international business in Romania was through Bucharest, towards the east of the country. Timisoara is in the west, near the Serbian and Hungarian borders, and Carpatair's focus has been to develop an alternative network from there west, to Italy (in particular), Germany and elsewhere.
They also have a unique style of operation with a very low density hub operation. Aircraft start the day at a range of other Romanian cities, all arriving at Timisoara together, then to depart to the various western points. In the afternoon the reverse happens. The ramp at Timisoara must be manic twice a day, otherwise deserted. Most destinations are thus just once daily or even less, and aircraft utilisation is low. A lot of overnight aways for the crews as well, presumably, as few aircraft start the day at base.
I guess the fleet's about 10 aircraft at present, it's been quite fluid over the years with aircraft going back and forward to Swiss.
There are long-established cultural links betwen Romania and Italy (think Romania, think Roman, the language also is from a common root) and much of the emigration from Romania in recent years has been to Italy. Timisoara and Carpathia have to be among the poorest regions of Europe, and presumably Carpatair's base costs and salaries reflect this.
Last edited by Hawk; 3rd Dec 2005 at 09:54.
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Well boys you allmost nailed it with the info. I fly for Carpatair and let me tell you a little bit about it. The hub and spoke operation does mean that you are away from home alot. Most likely a week at a time. Long days,depending on which base you got left overnight. Most takeoffs are at 7am the next day and landing between 4-6 pm. Again depending on delays etc... There are days when airports get closed in Italy/Romania and you end up stayin there, or coming home real late. The flyin is all good experience and you fly alot. Most likely between 50-100hrs a month. Now about the money.... the money is ok for Romania, considering a beer is about 80 euro cents. It gets kind of fun when you stay over the weekend somewheres since sundays the only flight is to budapest, and munich.
anyway if you need some more info let me know
ciao
anyway if you need some more info let me know
ciao
costin :
Thanks for the info. Just interested to ask -
How many crews are Romanians, how many Swiss or other expats ? Any crews based in Italy or Germany ?
Do you really get good loads transferring from all the Romanian cities to the Italian and German cities ?
Is there much ad hoc charter work ? You guys seem to pop up at sundry places from time to time like Palma.
Do crews do multiple days at the outstations or do you slip at Timisoara each day ?
Thanks for the info. Just interested to ask -
How many crews are Romanians, how many Swiss or other expats ? Any crews based in Italy or Germany ?
Do you really get good loads transferring from all the Romanian cities to the Italian and German cities ?
Is there much ad hoc charter work ? You guys seem to pop up at sundry places from time to time like Palma.
Do crews do multiple days at the outstations or do you slip at Timisoara each day ?
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I worked for Crossair and flew wet lease for Carpatair in 2003.
Here are some of the things we ran into during the wet lease:
1) "Mister Block fuel." Every morning when we showed up on the airport, we were met by a nervous handling agent who insisted on knowing how much block fuel we would take. When we asked relevant info like pax figures (max TOW), destination (minimum fuel required) and weather (extra fuel) he would say "I don´t know," as Carpatair simply makes up the planning as the go along. His job was dependant on ´on time performance´ and with only one fuel truck serving 7-8 aircraft he needed to know a number. When we asked what the local Saab 340 crew did, we found out that they would simply give a rough fuel figure and depart with it which makes one wonder about landing with minimum reserves...
2) SOP´s, maintanance and diverting: One Crossair Saab 2000 captain had to position MUC-Timisoara on a Carpatair Saab 340. When he boarded, he saw a lot of oil on the engine cover and pointed this out to the Carpatair captain who said it would be allright and pressed on.
Two days later this same aircraft had a "low oil quantity" warning enroute from Germany to Timisoara and the crew decided to continue without shutting down the engine. Of course a few minutes later the engine shut down by itself and the crew did not divert, but continued to Timisoara on one engine in icing conditions for more than one hour! The engine was wrecked which leaves you to wonder about their training/common sense. Grounding an aircraft or diverting is simply not an option with Carpatair.
3) De-icing in Sibiu. During the summer of 2003 the Swiss crews of the Saab 2000 frequently warned Carpatair for the need for de-icing in Sibiu. This was ignored and one frosty morning in October the aircraft was covered with ice after a nightstop. When the crew asked for de-icing, two guys ran to a shed and came back with a few big paint buckets and a broom. When asked what type of de-icing fluid was inside, or how old it was the usual"we don´t know" came as reply. They dipped the broom into the de-icing fluid and then started to scrub the aircraft with it. At this point the Crossair crew interveined (after having had a good laugh) and announced that they would wait for the sun to rise.
Needless to say that flights that day were severely delayed and Carpatair management was furious by this ´needless´ adherence to procedures. As revenge they decided to wet lease a Tarom ATR the following day, but when the Tarom crew also refused to fly because of lack of de-icing, it was decided to again send the smaller Saab 340 with local Carpatair ´we don´t ask any questions´ crew.
4) Pushing crews over max duty limits. One Swiss crew was asked (after already having flown 4 sectors) to fly an additional 2 sectors to Kichinau and back. As this would take them way over max duty, they refused. They were then assigned a shorter duty to Sibiu which the crew accepted. When the captain did his walk around, he saw that all luggage had "Chisinau" tags on them and when subsequently a bus with Chisinau passengers showed up he was simply told by Carpatair to ´get on with it and stop being such a pain.´ Local crews simply never say "no."
All in all these were my observations back in 2003. Things might have changed in the mean time, but I would be very carefull to go there!
Oh yes, one more thing I need to warn you for: Romanian women! They are incredibly beautiful!!
Here are some of the things we ran into during the wet lease:
1) "Mister Block fuel." Every morning when we showed up on the airport, we were met by a nervous handling agent who insisted on knowing how much block fuel we would take. When we asked relevant info like pax figures (max TOW), destination (minimum fuel required) and weather (extra fuel) he would say "I don´t know," as Carpatair simply makes up the planning as the go along. His job was dependant on ´on time performance´ and with only one fuel truck serving 7-8 aircraft he needed to know a number. When we asked what the local Saab 340 crew did, we found out that they would simply give a rough fuel figure and depart with it which makes one wonder about landing with minimum reserves...
2) SOP´s, maintanance and diverting: One Crossair Saab 2000 captain had to position MUC-Timisoara on a Carpatair Saab 340. When he boarded, he saw a lot of oil on the engine cover and pointed this out to the Carpatair captain who said it would be allright and pressed on.
Two days later this same aircraft had a "low oil quantity" warning enroute from Germany to Timisoara and the crew decided to continue without shutting down the engine. Of course a few minutes later the engine shut down by itself and the crew did not divert, but continued to Timisoara on one engine in icing conditions for more than one hour! The engine was wrecked which leaves you to wonder about their training/common sense. Grounding an aircraft or diverting is simply not an option with Carpatair.
3) De-icing in Sibiu. During the summer of 2003 the Swiss crews of the Saab 2000 frequently warned Carpatair for the need for de-icing in Sibiu. This was ignored and one frosty morning in October the aircraft was covered with ice after a nightstop. When the crew asked for de-icing, two guys ran to a shed and came back with a few big paint buckets and a broom. When asked what type of de-icing fluid was inside, or how old it was the usual"we don´t know" came as reply. They dipped the broom into the de-icing fluid and then started to scrub the aircraft with it. At this point the Crossair crew interveined (after having had a good laugh) and announced that they would wait for the sun to rise.
Needless to say that flights that day were severely delayed and Carpatair management was furious by this ´needless´ adherence to procedures. As revenge they decided to wet lease a Tarom ATR the following day, but when the Tarom crew also refused to fly because of lack of de-icing, it was decided to again send the smaller Saab 340 with local Carpatair ´we don´t ask any questions´ crew.
4) Pushing crews over max duty limits. One Swiss crew was asked (after already having flown 4 sectors) to fly an additional 2 sectors to Kichinau and back. As this would take them way over max duty, they refused. They were then assigned a shorter duty to Sibiu which the crew accepted. When the captain did his walk around, he saw that all luggage had "Chisinau" tags on them and when subsequently a bus with Chisinau passengers showed up he was simply told by Carpatair to ´get on with it and stop being such a pain.´ Local crews simply never say "no."
All in all these were my observations back in 2003. Things might have changed in the mean time, but I would be very carefull to go there!
Oh yes, one more thing I need to warn you for: Romanian women! They are incredibly beautiful!!
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First i'd like to start saying that saab 2000 driver kind of insulted me and i prob could say us, as in sf340 drivers.As in myself I had done my training in Canada and have not been brought up with the concept "never say no" . 1) there were times that we have refused to depart 2) diverted a bunch of times. About the block fuel yeah its kind of funny, they do tend to hunt you like a pack of dogs but its not that hard to give an figure to them. And most, actually almost everytime they can give you a pax estimate.
Kiwi red, currently there are some expats here. We had 3 from sweden, now down to 1, and currently 2 from germany( fr. swiss)
The duty times do sometimes get blown by but 99% of the time they get respected, as in you fly to the max.
No, there are no crews based in germany or italy. I wish that was true. As for charter work we get the odd one here and there. A lot of football team charters and in the summer charters to Thessalonik.
You do tend to sleep at the outstations. Im based in Constanta, but i never fly out of constanta, since the 2000 flies there now. Dead head to timisoara , and from there fly somewheres to italy/germany and then in the afternoon to another base. If you are based where the 2000 always flies to , most likely you are home everynight.
I dont know what else to tell ya off the top of my head but keep asking and ill answer.
P.S. PROPS TO SAAB 2000 DRIVER, THE WOMEN ARE VERY NICE......if you are foreign they love that, easy score kind of gals, ahahaha
Kiwi red, currently there are some expats here. We had 3 from sweden, now down to 1, and currently 2 from germany( fr. swiss)
The duty times do sometimes get blown by but 99% of the time they get respected, as in you fly to the max.
No, there are no crews based in germany or italy. I wish that was true. As for charter work we get the odd one here and there. A lot of football team charters and in the summer charters to Thessalonik.
You do tend to sleep at the outstations. Im based in Constanta, but i never fly out of constanta, since the 2000 flies there now. Dead head to timisoara , and from there fly somewheres to italy/germany and then in the afternoon to another base. If you are based where the 2000 always flies to , most likely you are home everynight.
I dont know what else to tell ya off the top of my head but keep asking and ill answer.
P.S. PROPS TO SAAB 2000 DRIVER, THE WOMEN ARE VERY NICE......if you are foreign they love that, easy score kind of gals, ahahaha
