GLOUCESTERSHIRE
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Thanks. I guess that is about right given the current 27 landing distance and around 160 metres "regained" at the 09 end.
In any event I dont think either LDA can go beyond 1199 metres within the current runway category, which presumably is not changing.
With all the recent negative airport news in the South-West, ie Filton and Plymouth, it is nice to see an airfield trying to improve and move foreward.
EGCA
In any event I dont think either LDA can go beyond 1199 metres within the current runway category, which presumably is not changing.
With all the recent negative airport news in the South-West, ie Filton and Plymouth, it is nice to see an airfield trying to improve and move foreward.
EGCA
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Just got back from the project managers' office having spent the day modelling the new distances and OLS with some fancy 3D software wizardry...
27 LDA will be 1161m (+/- 3m)
09 LDA will be 1199m
27 TOCS will be free of obstacles based on the current TODA of 1319 and 09 environment is significantly improved with the little bit of extra tarmac and removal of the entrance road and farm buildings.
27 LDA will be 1161m (+/- 3m)
09 LDA will be 1199m
27 TOCS will be free of obstacles based on the current TODA of 1319 and 09 environment is significantly improved with the little bit of extra tarmac and removal of the entrance road and farm buildings.
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What's GLO like wet? Is it grooved, does it usually have 'refective pools of water' when it's raining?
Still not enough LDA for commercial ops other than smallest of regional turboprops (19 seaters) and lightest of chartered private jets presumably - Mustang, C550 etc.?
Still not enough LDA for commercial ops other than smallest of regional turboprops (19 seaters) and lightest of chartered private jets presumably - Mustang, C550 etc.?
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The Q400 was for STOL PAPI training but we've had ATR42, 72, Dash 8 and even 146 pax ops before. We frequently see Citation & Hawker public transport ops, although these are sometimes limited to 09 (the current longest LDA), particularly in the wet. Gulfstream 5 and Globex have visited occasionally and there's a based F900 and Citation X.
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matspart3: Belatedly many thanks for the information.
Is the RESA work now complete apart from the ILS installation?
Have been checking the official website and the "view from the cafe" website to see if any recent images appeared showing the completed work, particularly at the 09 end, but nothing has appeared for a while.
Not a flyer by the way, just an interested enthusiast, appreciative of an airfield actually moving foreward and improving!
Edit: Re the comments above about Public transport aircraft, the distances at Gloucestershire do not look as challenging as those which applied at Plymouth which "did" have regular scheduled services.
Without trying to discuss numbers at this stage, the effective bringing back into use of around 160 m at the 09 end at Gloucestershire should help with TODAs as well as LDAs.
Regards
EGCA
Is the RESA work now complete apart from the ILS installation?
Have been checking the official website and the "view from the cafe" website to see if any recent images appeared showing the completed work, particularly at the 09 end, but nothing has appeared for a while.
Not a flyer by the way, just an interested enthusiast, appreciative of an airfield actually moving foreward and improving!
Edit: Re the comments above about Public transport aircraft, the distances at Gloucestershire do not look as challenging as those which applied at Plymouth which "did" have regular scheduled services.
Without trying to discuss numbers at this stage, the effective bringing back into use of around 160 m at the 09 end at Gloucestershire should help with TODAs as well as LDAs.
Regards
EGCA
Last edited by EGCA; 30th Jan 2012 at 16:13. Reason: additional comment
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But Plymouth was developed and operated by a home based carrier and in pre EU (open borders) days and when NQY was a military airfield, without customs/immigaration, with BMA operating a solitary LHR route, without anything (business routes) significant happening at EXT and without being plonked directly adjacent to the M5 and without being sandwiched inbetween such international airports as BRS, BHX and LHR!
Times moved on ... Where is Plymouth City Airport in the marketplace today? ..... Much the same place as Sheffield City Airport is!
Times moved on ... Where is Plymouth City Airport in the marketplace today? ..... Much the same place as Sheffield City Airport is!
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AM,
EGCA was making comparison between sizes of fields/runways and, if or not, scheduled services.
Had it not been for Bill Bryce and Brymon Airways Roborough (more recently known as Plymouth City Airport) might have remained a 3 grass runway'd field with the biggest things operating to/from it being Twotters.
Staverton (more recently known as Gloucestershire Airport or whatever) doesn't have a Bill Bryce nor a Brymon Airways nor a remoteness from other scheduled service airports that Roborough had back in the 1970's.
EGCA was making comparison between sizes of fields/runways and, if or not, scheduled services.
Had it not been for Bill Bryce and Brymon Airways Roborough (more recently known as Plymouth City Airport) might have remained a 3 grass runway'd field with the biggest things operating to/from it being Twotters.
Staverton (more recently known as Gloucestershire Airport or whatever) doesn't have a Bill Bryce nor a Brymon Airways nor a remoteness from other scheduled service airports that Roborough had back in the 1970's.
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Yes indeed, Plymouth had scheduled services of sorts from a 1160 metre runway, Gloucestershire with its little add-on bit at the 09 end is around 1431 metres, not necessarily all licenced runway I appreciate.
It will be interesting to see the new declared distances at EGBJ, which from matspart3's posting appear to be in the process of calculation. My point was however that they should be greater than those available at Plymouth and might therefore support more scheduled services at Staverton, if indeed runway length and hence aircraft type is a consideration, as it has to be.
Another poster above mentions Sheffield City, but wasn't that really built just to obtain grant money to recover a previous industrial derelict site rather than as a serious airfield operation? Anyway if Doncaster/Finningley closes that area around Sheffield will again be a business airfield wilderness again.
But thats another story....
EGCA
It will be interesting to see the new declared distances at EGBJ, which from matspart3's posting appear to be in the process of calculation. My point was however that they should be greater than those available at Plymouth and might therefore support more scheduled services at Staverton, if indeed runway length and hence aircraft type is a consideration, as it has to be.
Another poster above mentions Sheffield City, but wasn't that really built just to obtain grant money to recover a previous industrial derelict site rather than as a serious airfield operation? Anyway if Doncaster/Finningley closes that area around Sheffield will again be a business airfield wilderness again.
But thats another story....
EGCA
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EGCA,
1,160m was put in for DHC8's, before 1,160m the two PLH runways were circa 800m with one of those being circa 50% grass. Scheduled services, Islanders, Twotters etc, operated from PLH when it was grass, DHC7's joined the party once there was circa 800m of tarmac and DHC8's joined once there was 1,160m.
For how long has Staverton had grass and/or had 800m or more tarmac? PLH would have already had quite a significant route network at that stage, LHR, LGW, ABZ, EXT, NQY, BRS, ISC, JER, GCI, MXN, BES, ORK etc. so if it already hasn't happened for Staverton then I'd guestimate that it's not going to happen, well not anytime soon anyway.
1,160m was put in for DHC8's, before 1,160m the two PLH runways were circa 800m with one of those being circa 50% grass. Scheduled services, Islanders, Twotters etc, operated from PLH when it was grass, DHC7's joined the party once there was circa 800m of tarmac and DHC8's joined once there was 1,160m.
For how long has Staverton had grass and/or had 800m or more tarmac? PLH would have already had quite a significant route network at that stage, LHR, LGW, ABZ, EXT, NQY, BRS, ISC, JER, GCI, MXN, BES, ORK etc. so if it already hasn't happened for Staverton then I'd guestimate that it's not going to happen, well not anytime soon anyway.
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Fair comment. I am not privvy to Staverton's future plans, maybe they see their future more with business aviation, maintenance and the like. However they must be confident they have a viable future to expend money on the runway safety work. The reduced runway available if the safety work was not carried out would presumably have threatened both business-jet operations and the small-scale scheduled services operated by Manx2.
There is another airfield in the Midlands, recently revived, saying that it wants to see passenger flights back, Coventry, but that has gone rather quiet.
There is another airfield in the Midlands, recently revived, saying that it wants to see passenger flights back, Coventry, but that has gone rather quiet.
Last edited by EGCA; 31st Jan 2012 at 13:04.
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EGCA,
As I recall, brain cells fading and all that, Sheffield City Airport was the project of a pilot, a BCal pilot if I recall correctly.
The DHC7 was a recent thing in those days, PLH became developed for the DHC7, LCY was developed for the DHC7 and when LCY first opened it was a purely DHC7 airport with operations by Brymon and the Airlines of Britain Group (British Midland, Loganair, Manx etc) jumped on the DHC7 bandwagon with their 'London City Airways' and Sheffield City Airport was another "Jump on the DHC7 bandwagon'.
Alas the DHC7 was slow (circa 215kts) and, in less than ideal weather conditions, uncomfortable and, with 4 engines, more expensive to operate, I recall a route or few were considered from Sheffield, they didn't work out and the rest is history.
With regards to Staverton it's too close to, particularly, BHX for regular scheduled services besides the Channel Islands or similar, BRS and CWL also surround Staverton and LHR is only down the A40/M40.
As you point out CVT is crying out for work and CVT has an Airbus/Boeing sized runway, they're doing similar at Kidlington as they're doing at Staverton, and not forgetting West Wales Airport being developed at Aberporth, what is it about aviation that turns knowledgable and experienced businessmen who should know better in to 'boys and their toys'?
There simply isn't enough revenue passenger work around to support all these 'wannabee an airport' airfields!
As I recall, brain cells fading and all that, Sheffield City Airport was the project of a pilot, a BCal pilot if I recall correctly.
The DHC7 was a recent thing in those days, PLH became developed for the DHC7, LCY was developed for the DHC7 and when LCY first opened it was a purely DHC7 airport with operations by Brymon and the Airlines of Britain Group (British Midland, Loganair, Manx etc) jumped on the DHC7 bandwagon with their 'London City Airways' and Sheffield City Airport was another "Jump on the DHC7 bandwagon'.
Alas the DHC7 was slow (circa 215kts) and, in less than ideal weather conditions, uncomfortable and, with 4 engines, more expensive to operate, I recall a route or few were considered from Sheffield, they didn't work out and the rest is history.
With regards to Staverton it's too close to, particularly, BHX for regular scheduled services besides the Channel Islands or similar, BRS and CWL also surround Staverton and LHR is only down the A40/M40.
As you point out CVT is crying out for work and CVT has an Airbus/Boeing sized runway, they're doing similar at Kidlington as they're doing at Staverton, and not forgetting West Wales Airport being developed at Aberporth, what is it about aviation that turns knowledgable and experienced businessmen who should know better in to 'boys and their toys'?
There simply isn't enough revenue passenger work around to support all these 'wannabee an airport' airfields!
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what is it about aviation that turns knowledgable and experienced businessmen who should know better in to 'boys and their toys'?
Football being another prime example
Football being another prime example
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Phileas Fogg:
Just to tidy up the Sheffield City element of this discussion. I am not sure if the initial services in 1997 were DHC7 operated, but the runway length at EGSY was 1211m/3972ft which looks maginal for 146 operation. Destinations were Belfast, Amsterdam, Brussels, Dublin Jersey and London. Despite a bright start to these scheduled operations, traffic soon tailed-off, I suppose the inevitable result of these being relatively high-cost flights, at a time when cheap flights were the vogue.
Sheffield City was born out of a plan to reclaim a derelict industrial area, and Sheffield Development Corporation contracted mining engineers R J Budge to recover the coal and other material, but part-way through the contract R J Budge went into liquidation, so I dont know who actually completed the construction of the airfield.
Eventually in around 2002 Peel Airports became involved, at about the time they were developing Doncaster/Finningley, some will say therefore that Peel had little incentive to develop EGSY. There was also controvesy at the time regarding a 10-year reversionary clause in the original land sale agreement whereby the land could be bought back for a nominal £1 if the airport was shown not to be financially viable.
Anyway as they say, the rest is now history, and as far as I am aware the proposed business park on the site has not (yet) been built. The police and air ambulance operations remain at the eastern end of the site.
Lets hope Staverton/Gloucestershire has a brighter future, as I am sure it will have.
Regards
EGCA
Just to tidy up the Sheffield City element of this discussion. I am not sure if the initial services in 1997 were DHC7 operated, but the runway length at EGSY was 1211m/3972ft which looks maginal for 146 operation. Destinations were Belfast, Amsterdam, Brussels, Dublin Jersey and London. Despite a bright start to these scheduled operations, traffic soon tailed-off, I suppose the inevitable result of these being relatively high-cost flights, at a time when cheap flights were the vogue.
Sheffield City was born out of a plan to reclaim a derelict industrial area, and Sheffield Development Corporation contracted mining engineers R J Budge to recover the coal and other material, but part-way through the contract R J Budge went into liquidation, so I dont know who actually completed the construction of the airfield.
Eventually in around 2002 Peel Airports became involved, at about the time they were developing Doncaster/Finningley, some will say therefore that Peel had little incentive to develop EGSY. There was also controvesy at the time regarding a 10-year reversionary clause in the original land sale agreement whereby the land could be bought back for a nominal £1 if the airport was shown not to be financially viable.
Anyway as they say, the rest is now history, and as far as I am aware the proposed business park on the site has not (yet) been built. The police and air ambulance operations remain at the eastern end of the site.
Lets hope Staverton/Gloucestershire has a brighter future, as I am sure it will have.
Regards
EGCA
Last edited by EGCA; 1st Feb 2012 at 15:16.