MANCHESTER
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Re: MANCHESTER
Taken from the EMA Thread.....
[SIZE="1"](Leicester Mercury Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)It is a long haul to India for the thousands of Leicestershire people who head there each year - but that could soon change.
Nottingham East Midlands Airport (Nema) is in talks with potential airlines in a bid to offer a regular service to the country.
The airport believes such a flight would prove hugely successful because of the huge Asian population of Leicestershire and surrounding counties.
The move has been welcomed by commuters, who say they are fed up with having to travel to London for regular flights to India.
Penny Coates , managing director of Nema, said: "Our customers in Leicester tell us destinations in the Indian subcontinent would be their priority for the development of our long-haul services.
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In respect of long haul Ex EMA is there not a conflict of interest here between Manchester Airport itself and the Manchester Airport Holding Company with ref to EMA.
With a massive Indian population in the N West surely Manchester Airport must be trying to promote Indian flights themselves ?
[SIZE="1"](Leicester Mercury Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)It is a long haul to India for the thousands of Leicestershire people who head there each year - but that could soon change.
Nottingham East Midlands Airport (Nema) is in talks with potential airlines in a bid to offer a regular service to the country.
The airport believes such a flight would prove hugely successful because of the huge Asian population of Leicestershire and surrounding counties.
The move has been welcomed by commuters, who say they are fed up with having to travel to London for regular flights to India.
Penny Coates , managing director of Nema, said: "Our customers in Leicester tell us destinations in the Indian subcontinent would be their priority for the development of our long-haul services.
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In respect of long haul Ex EMA is there not a conflict of interest here between Manchester Airport itself and the Manchester Airport Holding Company with ref to EMA.
With a massive Indian population in the N West surely Manchester Airport must be trying to promote Indian flights themselves ?
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Re: MANCHESTER
Originally Posted by MancRy
VHF Flyer. As far as short haul premium cabins go, Club Europe is good. As our flights are leisure orientated, we only tend to end up needing two rows for club (10 seats) so its quite intimate. Food is nice and on the longest flights, the starter is served separately although Malta is classed as a band 3 flight. Champagne offered all journey,drinks whenever you want of course. The seats are very comfortable.
Euro Traveller is also pleasant and the seat pitch is the same.
Euro Traveller is also pleasant and the seat pitch is the same.
MancRy
Thanks - Tempting since I've got the budget this time (although champagne at 7.00?
)Also I believe, a 'proper a/c' rather than the usual 'tight squeeze' on offer from MAN through BACX.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Indian pax might fly from NEMA who wouldn't trek North to MAN. They might use BHX for example.
It's all about increasing market share and increasing catchment and competing against BAA. That's why MAPLC bought NEMA.
It's all about increasing market share and increasing catchment and competing against BAA. That's why MAPLC bought NEMA.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Bagso - Your assertion that the North-West has a "massive" Indian population is not quite correct, but the misunderstanding is a common one. Because we are encouraged to refer to people originating from the sub-continent as "Asians" it is easy to lose sight of the reality. The North-West actually has a "massive" population of Pakistanis and a healthy population of Bengalis [Bangladesh], but Indians really do favour the Midlands. These ethnic groups are not randomly dispersed around the UK; immigrants from specific regions of the sub-continent like to settle in the towns made familiar by their preceeding kinsfolk. Hence Manchester Airport is particularly well served by flights to Pakistan (which do very well) but continues to provide a relatively unattractive prospect for Indian carriers compared to airports in the Midlands.
Personally, I think we would all be far better informed if PC types did not insist on promoting the "Asian" tag. We would have much greater understanding of the very different Indian / Pakistani / Bengali cultures if we were encouraged to recognise them as such. When I am introduced to an "Asian" I want to know whether to try out my Turkish, Buryat, Cantonese, Mongolian, Arabic or Urdu ... we never face the problem of being introduced to a "European" after all!
Humour aside, if we are to truly understand ethnic minorities (and the air travel markets they represent), it is a good start not to be coy about recognising them as who they really are and where they actually originate from.
Not too controversial for the forum I trust ...
SHED.
Personally, I think we would all be far better informed if PC types did not insist on promoting the "Asian" tag. We would have much greater understanding of the very different Indian / Pakistani / Bengali cultures if we were encouraged to recognise them as such. When I am introduced to an "Asian" I want to know whether to try out my Turkish, Buryat, Cantonese, Mongolian, Arabic or Urdu ... we never face the problem of being introduced to a "European" after all!
Humour aside, if we are to truly understand ethnic minorities (and the air travel markets they represent), it is a good start not to be coy about recognising them as who they really are and where they actually originate from.
Not too controversial for the forum I trust ...
SHED.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Shed you are quite right, we see more Bangaladeshis than Indians transferring through LHR, so on that basis it would make more sense to start a Bangladeshi route out of MAN.
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Re: MANCHESTER
To be honest rather than making sweeping genralisations I was infact actually comparing the UK census figures of 2001 by religous origination which although not as large as the Midlands does actually show a "sizeable" Indian population based in the North West, suggesting therefore that Manchester could easily support a number of flights to India !
I would be more than delighted to send the link !
My core concern was more that the Manchester Airport Group should really only promote another airport within the group, where there is no potential competition with Manchester itself. In this case there might be !
I say this only because of the financial arrangaments of the Plc. If the Manchester Airport Group was similar in financial struture to say the BAA then that would be different.
Although Manchester Airport Group is registered as a plc its shares are not quoted or for sale on the Stock Exchange. At least 4 web sites quote Manchester City Council as having majority shareholding (55%) with each of the remaining nine councils in Greater Manchester holding 5%, I would stress that they quote the "Group" including NEMA , Humberside etc.
Unless each of these official local government web sites are incorrect it suggests that we have 10 North West based councils actively promoting services at another airport that "might" have considered Manchester....!
If there is no chance of a Manchester service then that is a different issue but there is interest here, Air India initially applied for slots at Manchester last year only to run into terminal restrictions which actually saw them reconsider and move the request to BHX which is less congested and where they were welcomed with open arms !
I would be more than delighted to send the link !
My core concern was more that the Manchester Airport Group should really only promote another airport within the group, where there is no potential competition with Manchester itself. In this case there might be !
I say this only because of the financial arrangaments of the Plc. If the Manchester Airport Group was similar in financial struture to say the BAA then that would be different.
Although Manchester Airport Group is registered as a plc its shares are not quoted or for sale on the Stock Exchange. At least 4 web sites quote Manchester City Council as having majority shareholding (55%) with each of the remaining nine councils in Greater Manchester holding 5%, I would stress that they quote the "Group" including NEMA , Humberside etc.
Unless each of these official local government web sites are incorrect it suggests that we have 10 North West based councils actively promoting services at another airport that "might" have considered Manchester....!
If there is no chance of a Manchester service then that is a different issue but there is interest here, Air India initially applied for slots at Manchester last year only to run into terminal restrictions which actually saw them reconsider and move the request to BHX which is less congested and where they were welcomed with open arms !
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Re: MANCHESTER
MAPLC is owned by the 10 local authorities of Grtr Mcr, yes. MAPLC also owns three other airports apart from MAN, in a separate Ltd company I think - EMA, BOH and HUY (the latter in partnership with a local authority - at least initially).
The purpose of said acquisition (which was funded entirely by debt secured against all four airports - a shame because MAN was debt-free before that, and they paid *well* over the market price for EMA and BOH) enables them to compete against BAA/Peel/TBI etc. in the UK airport marketplace and have a greater voice with Govt etc.
But one significant benefit is to allow them to derive economies of scale in "Group" activities e.g. purchasing, legal, property and facilities development, as well as securing access to new markets for their MAAS subsidiary (car parking, engineering, fire and security). For example they sacked NCP who used to provide car parking at NEMA, and now, after a rigorous and transparent tender process, MAAS provides the car park service. Another subsidiary, MADL, now provides the facilities development function.
NEMA employs its own ATCOs, whereas MAN pays NATS to do it. How will that be flexed to give "Group" benefit? Will MAAS provide security, engineering and fire cover at NEMA in the future? What about these three, plus car parking, at BOH and HUY, where incidentally both MDs are ex-MAN staff?
The purpose of said acquisition (which was funded entirely by debt secured against all four airports - a shame because MAN was debt-free before that, and they paid *well* over the market price for EMA and BOH) enables them to compete against BAA/Peel/TBI etc. in the UK airport marketplace and have a greater voice with Govt etc.
But one significant benefit is to allow them to derive economies of scale in "Group" activities e.g. purchasing, legal, property and facilities development, as well as securing access to new markets for their MAAS subsidiary (car parking, engineering, fire and security). For example they sacked NCP who used to provide car parking at NEMA, and now, after a rigorous and transparent tender process, MAAS provides the car park service. Another subsidiary, MADL, now provides the facilities development function.
NEMA employs its own ATCOs, whereas MAN pays NATS to do it. How will that be flexed to give "Group" benefit? Will MAAS provide security, engineering and fire cover at NEMA in the future? What about these three, plus car parking, at BOH and HUY, where incidentally both MDs are ex-MAN staff?
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Re: MANCHESTER
Originally Posted by Momentary Lapse
HUY (the latter in partnership with a local authority - at least initially).
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Re: MANCHESTER
Air India tried Manchester back in the 90s and it was a spectular failure. The service then was originally planned for Birmingham, but was hijacked at the last minute with the lure of zero landing fees at Manchester. Air India assumed that passengers would not mind travelling to Manchester to fly with them, but were soon proved wrong. Further proof of this can be seen with the success of services by the likes of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan from BHX to India, both of which have also tried from Manchester without much success.
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Re: MANCHESTER
I wouldn't call Air India's previous Manchester attempt a spectacular failure....... I think it was more a case of them redeploying their 310s on far more lucrative routes within the rapidly expanding Asian market. They were/ are renowned for having a lack of capacity to satisfy their network needs, so top performing routes naturally take precedence.
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Re: MANCHESTER
"spectacular failiure".... hardly
They wanted flights to Bombay which is where the majority of the North West population wanted to fly to....now renamed Mumbai this was/is the commercial capital. The UK Governement paid lip service to the numerous applications AI made but would only grant a limited service to Delhi.
Comparison between now and then are not vaild anyway as BHX was not in the equation at that time as there were no aircraft capable of full load untilisation as there are today ie The B777 was not around !
As I recall AI had previously tried BHX with 707 via Moscow which was also shelved...presumably another spectacular failiure ?
..and yes they wanted the aircrft for more lucrative routes...one of which would have been MAN -BOM !
As for Man offering zero landing fees ..well why on earth would they do that ? yes they would offer competitve landing fees as indeed would BHX but zero ...come on ! This isn't a subsidised STN operation...!
They wanted flights to Bombay which is where the majority of the North West population wanted to fly to....now renamed Mumbai this was/is the commercial capital. The UK Governement paid lip service to the numerous applications AI made but would only grant a limited service to Delhi.
Comparison between now and then are not vaild anyway as BHX was not in the equation at that time as there were no aircraft capable of full load untilisation as there are today ie The B777 was not around !
As I recall AI had previously tried BHX with 707 via Moscow which was also shelved...presumably another spectacular failiure ?
..and yes they wanted the aircrft for more lucrative routes...one of which would have been MAN -BOM !
As for Man offering zero landing fees ..well why on earth would they do that ? yes they would offer competitve landing fees as indeed would BHX but zero ...come on ! This isn't a subsidised STN operation...!
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Re: MANCHESTER
Hi Invicta DC4,
Use of emotive phrases such as "spectacular failure" and "hijacked at the last minute" offer the impression that your posting may be less than objective! Let's not go down one of those "my airport is better than your airport" cul-de-sacs, eh?
The Air India Manchester service which you describe as a "spectacular failure" grew over a number of seasons from 2x to 4x weekly; loads were very good. As 'Capital 203' points out, the service was withdrawn when the Air India A300 fleet came to the end of it's useful life; Air India was unable to procure a replacement at the time and therefore made the decision to redeploy A310's from European routes (not just MAN) to cover those within Asia formerly operated by A300's. As has been mentioned in this thread, Air India's choice in favour of BHX over MAN afew months ago was down to terminal capacity issues, not memories of past "spectacular failure." MAN would not have been reconsidered at all under such circumstances.
The Uzbekistan service to which you also refer operated successfully ex-MAN for many years. Ironically, the reason it switched from MAN to BHX was the launch of the Air India MAN service which we have just discussed. The Turkmenistan Airways service was very short-lived operating just afew rotations before fading away. Launching shortly after 9/11 could not have been a great help, but on the two occasions I saw it the service appeared to be full. Another Manchester - India operator for afew seasons was Singapore Airlines. My understanding is that their MAN-Mumbai sector was very popular, but it fell by the wayside as SIA brought online B772's capable of offering MAN-SIN non-stop.
I should also clarify for Bagso and others that I am not arguing [in my earlier posting] that MAN cannot support a scheduled service to India. Quite the contrary, I believe that the point is already proven by past successful services. Just as the distribution of Pakistanis in England means that BHX can support a PIA service (but on a much smaller scale than MAN), so the distribution of Indians means MAN can support an India service (but with a smaller market than the Midlands). It is not my intention to suggest that there are NO Indians in the North-West; simply that cities such as Birmingham and Leicester offer a much more substantial market opportunity to prospective carriers. And it is the fact that communities including Leicester are firmly within the EMA catchment area which vindicates that airport's initiative to attract a service to India. I think there would be monopoly concerns raised if MAplc were to try to block that.
I remain optimistic that MAN will eventually secure a successful India service under the new liberal bilateral agreement. However, it is also my expectation that BHX will continue to offer more India connections than MAN, and that EMA may indeed enter the reckoning too.
Best to all. SHED.
Use of emotive phrases such as "spectacular failure" and "hijacked at the last minute" offer the impression that your posting may be less than objective! Let's not go down one of those "my airport is better than your airport" cul-de-sacs, eh?
The Air India Manchester service which you describe as a "spectacular failure" grew over a number of seasons from 2x to 4x weekly; loads were very good. As 'Capital 203' points out, the service was withdrawn when the Air India A300 fleet came to the end of it's useful life; Air India was unable to procure a replacement at the time and therefore made the decision to redeploy A310's from European routes (not just MAN) to cover those within Asia formerly operated by A300's. As has been mentioned in this thread, Air India's choice in favour of BHX over MAN afew months ago was down to terminal capacity issues, not memories of past "spectacular failure." MAN would not have been reconsidered at all under such circumstances.
The Uzbekistan service to which you also refer operated successfully ex-MAN for many years. Ironically, the reason it switched from MAN to BHX was the launch of the Air India MAN service which we have just discussed. The Turkmenistan Airways service was very short-lived operating just afew rotations before fading away. Launching shortly after 9/11 could not have been a great help, but on the two occasions I saw it the service appeared to be full. Another Manchester - India operator for afew seasons was Singapore Airlines. My understanding is that their MAN-Mumbai sector was very popular, but it fell by the wayside as SIA brought online B772's capable of offering MAN-SIN non-stop.
I should also clarify for Bagso and others that I am not arguing [in my earlier posting] that MAN cannot support a scheduled service to India. Quite the contrary, I believe that the point is already proven by past successful services. Just as the distribution of Pakistanis in England means that BHX can support a PIA service (but on a much smaller scale than MAN), so the distribution of Indians means MAN can support an India service (but with a smaller market than the Midlands). It is not my intention to suggest that there are NO Indians in the North-West; simply that cities such as Birmingham and Leicester offer a much more substantial market opportunity to prospective carriers. And it is the fact that communities including Leicester are firmly within the EMA catchment area which vindicates that airport's initiative to attract a service to India. I think there would be monopoly concerns raised if MAplc were to try to block that.
I remain optimistic that MAN will eventually secure a successful India service under the new liberal bilateral agreement. However, it is also my expectation that BHX will continue to offer more India connections than MAN, and that EMA may indeed enter the reckoning too.
Best to all. SHED.
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Re: MANCHESTER
OK, spectacular failure may have been slightly OTT, but I stand by the hijacked at the last minute and zero landing fees comment. Handling Agent and in flight catering contracts had been agreed at BHX for the service to switch at the last minute to MAN. Air India wrongly assumed that the passengers who were likely to use their service wouldn't mind the 80 mile trip up the M6. The Indian community in the midlands did mind and voted with their feet.
To back up the zero landing fee argument, why did American Airlines get so p***ed off with MAN when Continental Airlines started? Someting to do with zero landing fees and risk sharing for the first twelve months?
And no, it was never meant as a my airport is better than yours argument.
To back up the zero landing fee argument, why did American Airlines get so p***ed off with MAN when Continental Airlines started? Someting to do with zero landing fees and risk sharing for the first twelve months?
And no, it was never meant as a my airport is better than yours argument.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Hello again Invicta DC4,
I am unable to challenge your suggestion that pax from the Midlands "voted with their feet" and avoided the Air India service ex-MAN because I have no data to confirm where their customers' bookings were made. However, I am sure that Air India care little about whether their passengers were booking from Birmingham, Manchester, Carlisle or Timbuktu as long as those bookings came in. And the bookings did come in. The passenger figures were very healthy, especially considering that the aircraft had to allow space for travellers boarding in Rome too. Air India may or may not have assumed that customers would be willing to travel 80 miles up the M6, but if they did misjudge that then they suffered no forfeit. The bookings came in anyway - from somewhere - and that is all that matters. The service ended due to fleet issues, not poor patronage.
With regard to a nil-landing-fees deal I cannot comment as I have no supporting data either way. However, in respect of "hijacking" deals it is normal market practice for airports to vie with each other to win new business. Airlines often deliberately make it known that they are considering a new service to see what offers come their way from the airports sector ... they owe nobody any loyalty and make the decision which suits them best at the time which suits them best. Such is the nature of the business. Both MAN and BHX have examples of winning and losing potential new business this way - it is a form of competitive tendering if you will. Of course, enthusiasts and civic-pride types understandably exhibit frustration and bitterness when a contract goes against them, but it is best to take a step back as must the professional airport managers. The trick is to make sure more of the next batch of 'big-fish' choose you rather than the other guy. But one sets oneself up for grief and misery if supposing it is possible to win 'em all! When MAN won Air India's service first time around, the deal was won based on an attractive business proposition - not a hijacking. And likewise, when BHX won Air India this time round (when MAN rated it's chances) the same applies: BHX offered a deal which MAN's capacity constraints prevented it from matching. There are many other examples; Gulf Traveller chose BHX over MAN (did they ever turn up, by the way?), Etihad chose MAN over BHX. This is the way of things. It's normal. No spite, no "hijacking", just competitive tendering to win new business. And the best package wins.
I thank you for your feedback and for your commitment to keeping this discussion non-partisan.
With best regards, SHED.
I am unable to challenge your suggestion that pax from the Midlands "voted with their feet" and avoided the Air India service ex-MAN because I have no data to confirm where their customers' bookings were made. However, I am sure that Air India care little about whether their passengers were booking from Birmingham, Manchester, Carlisle or Timbuktu as long as those bookings came in. And the bookings did come in. The passenger figures were very healthy, especially considering that the aircraft had to allow space for travellers boarding in Rome too. Air India may or may not have assumed that customers would be willing to travel 80 miles up the M6, but if they did misjudge that then they suffered no forfeit. The bookings came in anyway - from somewhere - and that is all that matters. The service ended due to fleet issues, not poor patronage.
With regard to a nil-landing-fees deal I cannot comment as I have no supporting data either way. However, in respect of "hijacking" deals it is normal market practice for airports to vie with each other to win new business. Airlines often deliberately make it known that they are considering a new service to see what offers come their way from the airports sector ... they owe nobody any loyalty and make the decision which suits them best at the time which suits them best. Such is the nature of the business. Both MAN and BHX have examples of winning and losing potential new business this way - it is a form of competitive tendering if you will. Of course, enthusiasts and civic-pride types understandably exhibit frustration and bitterness when a contract goes against them, but it is best to take a step back as must the professional airport managers. The trick is to make sure more of the next batch of 'big-fish' choose you rather than the other guy. But one sets oneself up for grief and misery if supposing it is possible to win 'em all! When MAN won Air India's service first time around, the deal was won based on an attractive business proposition - not a hijacking. And likewise, when BHX won Air India this time round (when MAN rated it's chances) the same applies: BHX offered a deal which MAN's capacity constraints prevented it from matching. There are many other examples; Gulf Traveller chose BHX over MAN (did they ever turn up, by the way?), Etihad chose MAN over BHX. This is the way of things. It's normal. No spite, no "hijacking", just competitive tendering to win new business. And the best package wins.
I thank you for your feedback and for your commitment to keeping this discussion non-partisan.
With best regards, SHED.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this debate and apologies if I gave the impression that I was taking a knock at Manchester, this is not the case.
The way I see it at the moment with particular routes is that its a case of "Horses for courses". Passengers including myself are not prepared to travel 2 + hours to an airport and are more likely to route via AMS or FRA from their local airport. This is the mistake IMHO that Air India made some years ago.
Just because you have a first class airport wherever doesn't mean you automatically deserve routes to wherever and this was the impression I was getting in recent posts about Manchester on this forum.
With regard to the zero landing fees and risk sharing, yes, that is obviously acceptable and normal practice these days especially with the likes of some Locos. The point being was that we are talking 9-10 years ago when there was not a level playing field, i.e some airports where plc's others were local authority controlled so the question of subsidies come into play.
Finally (for the time being!) I do not have any particular allegience to any airport, If the fare is right and at the time, I do not have to travel too far, then I will fly from wherever (with the exception of LGW)
If you are wondering about my user name, the first flight I ever took was on an Invicta Airways DC4 (C54) from Manston to Munich and back. 3 hours each way at FL80 in 1968.
The way I see it at the moment with particular routes is that its a case of "Horses for courses". Passengers including myself are not prepared to travel 2 + hours to an airport and are more likely to route via AMS or FRA from their local airport. This is the mistake IMHO that Air India made some years ago.
Just because you have a first class airport wherever doesn't mean you automatically deserve routes to wherever and this was the impression I was getting in recent posts about Manchester on this forum.
With regard to the zero landing fees and risk sharing, yes, that is obviously acceptable and normal practice these days especially with the likes of some Locos. The point being was that we are talking 9-10 years ago when there was not a level playing field, i.e some airports where plc's others were local authority controlled so the question of subsidies come into play.
Finally (for the time being!) I do not have any particular allegience to any airport, If the fare is right and at the time, I do not have to travel too far, then I will fly from wherever (with the exception of LGW)
If you are wondering about my user name, the first flight I ever took was on an Invicta Airways DC4 (C54) from Manston to Munich and back. 3 hours each way at FL80 in 1968.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Point taken re markets/catchment areas etc. I appreciate the difference between different countries! Nevertheless, from a MA Group perspective, the Group has won a route and passengers from one of its airports to India that it didn't have before. Whichever airport it's from, lucky shareholders.
Re zero pricing, MAN is a regulated airport, unlike STN. Therefore the discounts they offer have to be available to any airline. They are published every year. What may look like a discount to airline x to a specified destination is in fact available to any airline wanting to serve that route, if it is a new route, or the airline concerned aims to increase capacity or frequency on an existing route.
If it's a new airline serving an existing route, no discount.
I don't think "Fees and Charges" is on manchesterairport.co.uk. If someone finds it, please post the link.
Cheers
Re zero pricing, MAN is a regulated airport, unlike STN. Therefore the discounts they offer have to be available to any airline. They are published every year. What may look like a discount to airline x to a specified destination is in fact available to any airline wanting to serve that route, if it is a new route, or the airline concerned aims to increase capacity or frequency on an existing route.
If it's a new airline serving an existing route, no discount.
I don't think "Fees and Charges" is on manchesterairport.co.uk. If someone finds it, please post the link.
Cheers
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Re: MANCHESTER
Originally Posted by Momentary Lapse
I don't think "Fees and Charges" is on manchesterairport.co.uk. If someone finds it, please post the link.
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/w...eratureArchive
Fees and Charges are an Adobe dowload but do not yet show 06/07 fees.
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Re: MANCHESTER
Thanks SD
I got to that page but never saw the link near the bottom.
I reckon they won't have finalised the charges this far out from 1/4/06 as they have to check the prices against the schedules to ensure the total income doesn't break the price cap set by the regulator.
But I predict some interesting surprises for 06/07 to stimulate more interest in the off peaks (both before the morning departures peak, and in the afternoon and evening) and total income will probably please the regulator too.
Shame they're pushing wages down and down across the Group to fund all these price cuts. Not like they're short of profits is it?
I could rant on that MA fleeces all its service partners (especially airlines, handling agents, retailers and the terminal cleaners) so they have to cut the only cost they really control (wages), with the end result that they can't get or keep staff, so bags go unmoved, tables uncleared, shops unopened in the early mornings, and floors unswept. All the profit rises to the top of the pyramid (ultimately Manchester City Council getting 55% of that) and everyone else has tiny margins.
But I won't
I got to that page but never saw the link near the bottom.
I reckon they won't have finalised the charges this far out from 1/4/06 as they have to check the prices against the schedules to ensure the total income doesn't break the price cap set by the regulator.
But I predict some interesting surprises for 06/07 to stimulate more interest in the off peaks (both before the morning departures peak, and in the afternoon and evening) and total income will probably please the regulator too.
Shame they're pushing wages down and down across the Group to fund all these price cuts. Not like they're short of profits is it?
I could rant on that MA fleeces all its service partners (especially airlines, handling agents, retailers and the terminal cleaners) so they have to cut the only cost they really control (wages), with the end result that they can't get or keep staff, so bags go unmoved, tables uncleared, shops unopened in the early mornings, and floors unswept. All the profit rises to the top of the pyramid (ultimately Manchester City Council getting 55% of that) and everyone else has tiny margins.
But I won't
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Re: MANCHESTER
Many years ago (1980s) I recall the Air India UK manager saying that if AI did commence scheduled flights from any other airport outside of LHR, then that airport would be Manchester. The prime reason being that Birmingham and the Midlands catchment area was too close to London. As has already been pointed out the last AI MAN service with A310s was curtailed as those aircraft were put to better use in the then more lucrative Far East market.
As Shed-on-a-Pole has pointed out, Asian residents in the NW are mostly Pakistani/Bangladeshi. Indians (although a large NW population in their own right) do tend to prefer the Midlands.
Invicta DC4 -- As to landing fees you are wide off the mark. All airports offer incentives to entice new operators to their airports. Birmingham was no different. Manchester offered - as it still does - low to nil landing charges for a specific period, to any operator to help and encourage them to develop new routes. After which the airline is expected to be able to stand on its own feet. Hence your reference to CO v AA; the timing was unfortunate - or perhaps carefully timed by the competition. One airline's discounted started up fees came to an end, as the other operator started up with the low fees. Difficult to compete when you are now having to pay full whack.
Regarding the EasyJet saga mentioned by ezy733. I am assuming he/she is referring to the recent slots issue. I shall point out that the original inquiries from EZY to set up at MAN had nothing to do with slots, this was more to do with the MAN management of the time refusing to drop their airport charges - this of course was in the early loco days. It was a take it, or leave it scenario. Those are the charges, if you don't like it go elsewhere. So Easy did - to Liverpool. Likewise Ryanair, later on. MAN has now recognise that locos are here to stay, and adjusted their charges in the last couple of years, with bmi baby the first to benefit. If MAN had adjusted their charges when Easy first approached them, then there is no doubt Easy would be a major player in the airline business at MAN by now, as the airport always was its preferred base in the North-West. But hindsight is a wonderful thing!
As Shed-on-a-Pole has pointed out, Asian residents in the NW are mostly Pakistani/Bangladeshi. Indians (although a large NW population in their own right) do tend to prefer the Midlands.
Invicta DC4 -- As to landing fees you are wide off the mark. All airports offer incentives to entice new operators to their airports. Birmingham was no different. Manchester offered - as it still does - low to nil landing charges for a specific period, to any operator to help and encourage them to develop new routes. After which the airline is expected to be able to stand on its own feet. Hence your reference to CO v AA; the timing was unfortunate - or perhaps carefully timed by the competition. One airline's discounted started up fees came to an end, as the other operator started up with the low fees. Difficult to compete when you are now having to pay full whack.
Regarding the EasyJet saga mentioned by ezy733. I am assuming he/she is referring to the recent slots issue. I shall point out that the original inquiries from EZY to set up at MAN had nothing to do with slots, this was more to do with the MAN management of the time refusing to drop their airport charges - this of course was in the early loco days. It was a take it, or leave it scenario. Those are the charges, if you don't like it go elsewhere. So Easy did - to Liverpool. Likewise Ryanair, later on. MAN has now recognise that locos are here to stay, and adjusted their charges in the last couple of years, with bmi baby the first to benefit. If MAN had adjusted their charges when Easy first approached them, then there is no doubt Easy would be a major player in the airline business at MAN by now, as the airport always was its preferred base in the North-West. But hindsight is a wonderful thing!