When Did Lo-co Become Scheduled?

[7006 fan]

I am getting a little confused that Lo-co operations are now being advertised as Scheduled services. Apart from operating on a regular basis (some of the time) the similarity stops, surely. One cannot inter-line with a lo-co, the baggage allowance is much lower, the on-plane services are usually nil.
If this is to be considered correct then, argueably, charter flights could claim to be 'scheduled' as they are now also selling 'seat only' space on their aircraft to increase the load factors, it is just that the scheduled service only operates for 3/4 months of the year, but to a schedule -a pre-timed slot of arrival and departure.

[The Greaser]

Since when have interlining, baggage allowances or inflight services had anything to do with the difference between scheduled and charter flights?

[7006 fan]

I only threw charter into the equation to demonstrate that there was seat-only availability, was not suggesting the 'bucket and spade' operators should be considered to be scheduled services.
The inter-lining etc relates to Lo-co 'v' Scheduled
Hope this clears up any confusion

[EK-LHR-LGW-GLA-MAN-B]

loco's have always been scheduled services have they not?

[Oshkosh George]

Surely if Lo-cos weren't SCHEDULED,you wouldn't know when to go to the airport!!!!!!!!

[jmc757]

Isn't the technical difference between Schedueld and Charter the way tickets are sold. I.e. A schedueld airline sells seats directly to customers (perhaps via travel agents) but at the end of the day your contract is with said airline.

Charter airlines are not allowed to sell seats direct. They sell seats to tour operators who then market them, so your contract is with a tour operator (even on seat only deals.)

Thats was my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore, lo-cost services always have been, and will be schedueld services.

[chiglet]

AFAIK, Monarch, Excel, Air 2bob, Airtours all have websited where you are able to buy "flight only" direct. They are selling scheduled seats on both schedule and charter flights
watp,iktch

[pinhammond]

Since the last European directive on liberalisation came into law for flights within the EU there has been no legal distinction between scheduled, charter or any other airline services. Within the EU any EU registered airline can fly where they like at whatever frequency they like and charge what they like. The only regulatory controls are flight operations, safety and maintenance. Regulators are not permitted to licence airlines unless they have sufficient finances for their planned flights . This is largely based on consumer protection. Some flights are referred to as charter flights and this is because there is a contract in place under which a charterer (usually a tour company or broker) agrees to pay the airline a price to operate the flight or series of flights.

Trying to find any real distinction between so-called scheduled flights, so-called low cost flights and so-called charter flights is as pointless as trying to imject a skeleton with penicillin. Most consumers do not care what type of flight it may be, most do not even care which airline it is. Price is the number one issue.

Look at Thomson Fly. There is no distinction in their marketing about whether it is a Thomson Charter flight of a so-called Lo-Co flight.

Just by way of an example, look up any route which is operated by Monarch, BA, Easyjet and several so-called charter airlines. You will find that the prices on them all change regularly. I have just done an exercise for a couple of routes in Julj this year out of Gatwick. Easy Jet has the highest prices. BA is sometimes lower than the others.

Basically all those old labels are useless. They are just flights.

For flights to places outside the EU (other than Switzerland) it is all different. The old fashioned distinctions remain.

[phil_2405]

I always thought a scheduled service was one that operated to a pre-advertised timetable, with the timetable being available upto 6 months in advance. Something like that anyway? That would make loco services scheduled but charter service by definition not scheduled. A charter service can be cancelled at any time if loads arent good or for any other reason, a scheduled service will operate if it has 1 pax on or 300.

[chiglet]

phil,
At any airport, the "Airline" [sched or charter] HAS to submit its "schedules" for runway slot reqs quite a way in advance.
If airline Z flies from A to B at 12.30 and returns at 17.30 that is a "scheduled flight" irrespective of the mode of operation
watp,iktch

[terrywilcox]

when did locos become etc

7006fan,you say you are confused. I can guarantee you are. Perhaps the answers you have been given enlighten you somewhat. For members who may think I am being hard on 7006 fan,please check his comments on Doncaster Finningley thread. Just by the way 7006 fan,I am sure you must be aware that flights at DSA are going smoothly,and very successfully.

[hostiegirl]

the bit about charter can cancel a flight is not true the airline has a contract with the tour operator and would be heavily fined if a flight is cancelled.whereas say easyjet only had 1 pax they can cancel a flight and rebook that pax on the next availible flight.and many charters only fly once a week from smaller airports whereas easyjet would have a flight a day if not a few a day so less disruption to that 1 passenger.

[7006 fan]

terry,
was not having a pop at DSA/DCA or whatever it is called, so do not start dishing it out as if it is a personal slur against you or your precious airport. i just wanted to understand if there was now any difference between Lo-cost carriers and standard scheduled services.
But as you HAD to mention DSA, I read in the Sheffield Star that ther were delays and the phones did not work last weekend.

[jumpseater]

'i just wanted to understand if there was now any difference between Lo-cost carriers and standard scheduled services'

I dont understand what this 'now' is, easyjet for example have been scheduled since day one, i.e they run to a timetable just like BA etc does, and have advertised themselves as scheduled since day one. The only misunderstanding, with respect, is yours.

'Apart from operating on a regular basis (some of the time)'.. well interestingly I have flown with both Ryanair and easyJet six times very recently, and I'm due to do three more trips before the end of this month. The only delay I've had (1 hour), was with Ryanair, and that was due to weather which was out of their control. I suspect you don't fly on them regularly, hence your ill informed comment above. All of my trips have been out and back to meetings on the same day! I can do these trips due to the fact that the frequency of their Schedules allow me to do these trips on a single day. If they, loco's, were as bad as your comment implies, then people wouldnt waste their time with them, and they wouldn't survive, its that simple.

[ATNotts]

I really find it difficult to understand the confusion.

A charter flight is chartered by a third party. This is normally a bonded tour operator. I believe I would be correct in saying that where a charter airline "sells" seats on a chartered flight, these are sold through an ATOL holder, rather than contracted directly with the airline, hence the clear differential between Monarch Scheduled and Monarch, and My Travel Airlines and MyTravelLite.

A scheduled service is sold directly by the airline itself to the punter. If a tour operator uses seats on said scheduled service, then they buy them from the carrier, and use them to sell on to their IT customers.

Then again, perhaps it is I that am confused!

[thegoaf]

ATNotts, just to add to the complexity of it all: If you buy a seat on a ZB (Monarch Scheduled) flight through AVRO which is owned by Monarch's parent company and is a seat-only tour operator you are covered by their bond. If you buy direct from Monarch you are not covered by any bond. If you buy that same seat through a travel agent you are not covered by a bond unless it is the travel agent that goes out of business.

If it is confusing for people in the business just think what the consumer must feel, except that they do not seem to care as long as they get a low price.

[BALIX]

Whilst it is fairly clear to anyone with a bit of sense that locos are indeed scheduled airlines, the distinction between the chartered and scheduled flights by the traditional charter airlines is a bit harder to define.

I'm off to Cyprus in October. Flying out of Glasgow with FCA. Bought the (e) ticket off the FCA website. Good price, no complaints. However, I could have purchased tickets on the same flight through a number of tour operators but they would have cost me something like £80 per skull more.

The flight, though, is advertised as a weekly scheduled flight and has a flight number of DP80. Normal FCA flights are prefixed FCA. So it appears that this airline sells seats on this flight to tour companies to sell on in much the same way as it would if it were a charter flight but retains a few to sell direct allowing it to call it a scheduled service.

Bet the seat pitch isn't any more...

[phil_2405]

At any airport, the "Airline" [sched or charter] HAS to submit its "schedules" for runway slot reqs quite a way in advance.

Yea I'm saying a openly, publicly available timetable, I'm well aware the airlines have to submit their "schedules" well in advance to the respective airport. Charter airlines tend to "play" around with flight times etc even quite close to departure, I dont believe scheduled airlines do (to such a large extent anyway).

I'm just going by what I have been taught the difference is.

[isa kite]

It's mostly a matter of definitions lagging behind the industry. Scheduled services fly to a published timetable on a seat only basis, whilst it used to be the case that charter served the inclusive tour (IT) market. You could book a holiday, and frequently not know the precise time of the flight until the tickets arrived.

LoCo clearly fits into the "scheduled" definition. It's the charter airlines' response of introducing a mix of seat only and IT on the same flight which has muddied the waters. Mostly, if a significant proportion of the flight is IT, then it will be treated as charter for statistical purposes by most airports. Eventually, the official definitions may catch up.