PLYMOUTH
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If anyone is interested;
York Aviation has released it's study/report into the future of Plymouth airport.
It is an interesting read and the plans are great and hopefully Plymouth will get the longer extension
Here it is: http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/kc20_plym...report.doc.pdf
The people who put this together have don a great job
York Aviation has released it's study/report into the future of Plymouth airport.
It is an interesting read and the plans are great and hopefully Plymouth will get the longer extension
Here it is: http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/kc20_plym...report.doc.pdf
The people who put this together have don a great job
Sorry WOWBOY but did you actually read it?
I hope that Sutton Harbour Holdings payed for that and not the local taxpayers. I have only glanced at the relevant points but can smell the bullsh*t from deepest darkest Cornwall.
Very professional I am sure but it changes what exactly.....
I hope that Sutton Harbour Holdings payed for that and not the local taxpayers. I have only glanced at the relevant points but can smell the bullsh*t from deepest darkest Cornwall.
Very professional I am sure but it changes what exactly.....
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hello all!
only my second post. wahey!
just to clarify some points.
air aerann are to operate NQY-ORK, not sure if it routes elsewhere?
skybus only drops into PLH with wx diversions, they prefer to go into NQY or EXT when poss. Skybus could do some scheduled flights at PLH poss SOU-PLH-ISC. Would be more likrly if they could get a third otter.
cheers
only my second post. wahey!
just to clarify some points.
air aerann are to operate NQY-ORK, not sure if it routes elsewhere?
skybus only drops into PLH with wx diversions, they prefer to go into NQY or EXT when poss. Skybus could do some scheduled flights at PLH poss SOU-PLH-ISC. Would be more likrly if they could get a third otter.
cheers
Brunel to Concorde
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GROUNDHOG
Apparently it was prepared for Plymouth City Council, at least in part, so I suppose public money did come into it.
I take your point about froth and spin, and are the master plans of our regional airports in this corner of Britain (and almost certainly elsewhere) any different?
One or two things did take my eye.
There is a suggestion that if NQY closed the PLH-LGW sector on its own might be questionable as to viability.
There was apparently confusion over the RESAs with SouthWest believing it couldn't increase flight numbers due to the CAA's decision concerning limitations at the eastern end which the authority than changed its mind over.
According to the report SouthWest has indicated it will now fly more routes out of PLH as a result.
The mini hub at BRS was presumably not a success with South West commenting on delays at times awaiting a late-running connecting aircraft to arrive. The airline seems to have overcome this by basing an aircraft at BRS.
In another thread some are suggesting that SouthWest start a CWL-NCL so that pax from the NorthEast could change at CWL for NQY. Based on its BRS experience, SouthWest might not be too keen.
The bottom line, as you mentioned elsewhere, is that for PLH to have any chance of long-term success the runway must be extended and the apron enlarged. It has taken an expensive report to discover what any local plane spotter could probably have told them.
The problem must be the finance though, because even with the 'best' runway option there would still be no concrete guarantee that the airport would succeed.
It seems that Plymouth City Council is as much concerned with image ("we must have a suitable airport to reflect the city's status") as with the economic and social benefits a successful airport would bring.
There is a a first-class facility less than an hour along the Devon Expressway, only it happens to be called Exeter. I wonder if a name changeto Devon or South West England Airport would soothe some of the sensibilities.
Apparently it was prepared for Plymouth City Council, at least in part, so I suppose public money did come into it.
I take your point about froth and spin, and are the master plans of our regional airports in this corner of Britain (and almost certainly elsewhere) any different?
One or two things did take my eye.
There is a suggestion that if NQY closed the PLH-LGW sector on its own might be questionable as to viability.
There was apparently confusion over the RESAs with SouthWest believing it couldn't increase flight numbers due to the CAA's decision concerning limitations at the eastern end which the authority than changed its mind over.
According to the report SouthWest has indicated it will now fly more routes out of PLH as a result.
The mini hub at BRS was presumably not a success with South West commenting on delays at times awaiting a late-running connecting aircraft to arrive. The airline seems to have overcome this by basing an aircraft at BRS.
In another thread some are suggesting that SouthWest start a CWL-NCL so that pax from the NorthEast could change at CWL for NQY. Based on its BRS experience, SouthWest might not be too keen.
The bottom line, as you mentioned elsewhere, is that for PLH to have any chance of long-term success the runway must be extended and the apron enlarged. It has taken an expensive report to discover what any local plane spotter could probably have told them.
The problem must be the finance though, because even with the 'best' runway option there would still be no concrete guarantee that the airport would succeed.
It seems that Plymouth City Council is as much concerned with image ("we must have a suitable airport to reflect the city's status") as with the economic and social benefits a successful airport would bring.
There is a a first-class facility less than an hour along the Devon Expressway, only it happens to be called Exeter. I wonder if a name changeto Devon or South West England Airport would soothe some of the sensibilities.
Merchant Venturer
Agree with you and the report, Plymouth to Gatwick would probably stand little chance of survival on its own. As trains get faster and the A303 is upgraded Plymouth gets closer all the time to the South East and London. Any suggestion in the report that if Newquay closed Plymouth might become the "gateway to Cornwall" is way off the mark in my view.
Plymouth route network hasn't changed much in the last fourty years that I can remember so I see no reason why it should in the future with a good alternative so nearby and I have no doubt like everywhere else NIMBY neighbours. The Council may want to keep its showcase airport but how long will the ratepayers want to pay for it, I suggest 99% would rather see the cash spent on better local services in other areas.
Agree with you and the report, Plymouth to Gatwick would probably stand little chance of survival on its own. As trains get faster and the A303 is upgraded Plymouth gets closer all the time to the South East and London. Any suggestion in the report that if Newquay closed Plymouth might become the "gateway to Cornwall" is way off the mark in my view.
Plymouth route network hasn't changed much in the last fourty years that I can remember so I see no reason why it should in the future with a good alternative so nearby and I have no doubt like everywhere else NIMBY neighbours. The Council may want to keep its showcase airport but how long will the ratepayers want to pay for it, I suggest 99% would rather see the cash spent on better local services in other areas.
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Just stumbled across this thread,
I guess times have changed at NQY (Nookie) since the early eighties and the two clapped out fuel bowsers 'Sweaty Betty' & 'Fat Ann'.
There was a time or two when the diesel had frozen in the tank that they 'reportedly' lit a bonfire under the bowser to thaw the fuel
)
Around the same time during the summers at PLH, once the evening LGW & LHR departures had gone, it was cricket on the airfield, if one knocked it over the runway it was a four and play would stop if the controller shouted of an inbound aircraft from the balcony of his pink control tower)
Oh, the good ol' days!
I guess times have changed at NQY (Nookie) since the early eighties and the two clapped out fuel bowsers 'Sweaty Betty' & 'Fat Ann'.
There was a time or two when the diesel had frozen in the tank that they 'reportedly' lit a bonfire under the bowser to thaw the fuel
)Around the same time during the summers at PLH, once the evening LGW & LHR departures had gone, it was cricket on the airfield, if one knocked it over the runway it was a four and play would stop if the controller shouted of an inbound aircraft from the balcony of his pink control tower
)Oh, the good ol' days!
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Plymouth
After quickly browsing through the report option 3 the lengthening of the runway and the Resa seems the only way togo if it is to give PLY any chance of success. But im afraid this is trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.There is way to much housing and industrial units around the place thanks to councils who did not have any foresight.Plus it has been left in EXT wake because of this.The talk is of Newquay closing of which I am one because they are having trouble finding the finances to run it which is fair comment but at the sametime the same has tobe said about PLY because of its limitations.So we could in future see the demise of two Council owned airports surprise surprise.
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Ah, the saga of expansion at Roborough. I'm going to bore you all now but - in the late 70s I wrote my unversity dissertation on the development, past and future, of Plymouth Airport. At that time Brymon, under the original owner, was growing fast and passenger figures were increasing at Plymouth.
My research, much of which was conducted pouring over the archives in the City library, revealed the sorry stories of airport plans dating back to post war. The original 'good idea' was the development of Harrowbeer, the former WW2 fighter airfield at Yelverton, but I seem to recall that the National Park put pay to that. Then came a plan to build a new airport across the Tamar outside Saltash. The final scheme which attracted most attention and was perhaps the closest to getting off the ground (sorry!) was the Collaton Cross plan. This was a green field (literally) development in the South Hams (I guess twixt Ivybridge and Yealmpton) but as with its forerunners, lack of political will and economic drive, specifically from Plymouth, saw it fall by the wayside. Devon County Council has always favoured Exeter for development; I can't think why?
There was always talk that the land at the Estover end of the airport had been earmarked for runway extension and, indeed, I had heard on my now infrequent visits home, that a number of the industrial units had been vacated in recent years for that eventuality.
There has always been the inter urban rivalry with Exeter but I believe that a solution to Devon and Cornwall's air transport needs lies in the resurrection of that Collaton Cross project. Exeter has an unbalanced catchment divide between Bristol to the nothwest and nowhere to the southwest. Collaton would be around equal in driving time from Exeter and Plymouth, that little bit closer for Cornish travellers and provide an option for those to the northwest of Exeter who could choose Bristol.
Devon International is surely the way ahead. I would have thought facilities akin to those at Bristol would be more than adequate. All you people down there have to do is convince the politicians.
Sorry if I bored you too much.
My research, much of which was conducted pouring over the archives in the City library, revealed the sorry stories of airport plans dating back to post war. The original 'good idea' was the development of Harrowbeer, the former WW2 fighter airfield at Yelverton, but I seem to recall that the National Park put pay to that. Then came a plan to build a new airport across the Tamar outside Saltash. The final scheme which attracted most attention and was perhaps the closest to getting off the ground (sorry!) was the Collaton Cross plan. This was a green field (literally) development in the South Hams (I guess twixt Ivybridge and Yealmpton) but as with its forerunners, lack of political will and economic drive, specifically from Plymouth, saw it fall by the wayside. Devon County Council has always favoured Exeter for development; I can't think why?
There was always talk that the land at the Estover end of the airport had been earmarked for runway extension and, indeed, I had heard on my now infrequent visits home, that a number of the industrial units had been vacated in recent years for that eventuality.
There has always been the inter urban rivalry with Exeter but I believe that a solution to Devon and Cornwall's air transport needs lies in the resurrection of that Collaton Cross project. Exeter has an unbalanced catchment divide between Bristol to the nothwest and nowhere to the southwest. Collaton would be around equal in driving time from Exeter and Plymouth, that little bit closer for Cornish travellers and provide an option for those to the northwest of Exeter who could choose Bristol.
Devon International is surely the way ahead. I would have thought facilities akin to those at Bristol would be more than adequate. All you people down there have to do is convince the politicians.
Sorry if I bored you too much.
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One the RAF move out of St Mawgan Newquay Airport will become another Manston, a large airfield but without the catchment area to justify it. What Manston has in it's favour is that it is ideally placed for weather diversions from the London area and the close continent whereas St Mawgan, well it might attract a St. Just, Penzance helicopter or PLH diversion but that's about it and it is a very much larger airfield than Manston, it has the widest runway, 9000ft x 300ft, in the country and with the tower etc. on the RAF side.
What Cornwall needs is a centrally located modest airport, perhaps a 7000ft runway but a longer one might be convenient for the occasional fuel stop before a heavy crosses the pond, a modest terminal, perhaps a freight facility, and with good road and perhaps rail connections and not a bl00dy great airfield & RAF camp the size of St. Mawgan, particularly one at an elevation of some 600ft.
So why not develop somewhere like the former RAF Portreath:
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cg...=1&scale=25000
OK, it seems to have about 4 runways but from the pic it appears only one runway has been maintained, a cross runway is always handy for crosswind conditions, but development can be concentrated on a tailor made commercial airport rather than an RAF base with a civilian terminal as far away as possible.
Portreath is about 2 miles off the A30 and about 3 miles from a railway line and Redruth station, it is in a non built up area and has approaches over the sea.
If the RAF are to pull the plug on St Mawgan then perhaps it might be the right time for Cornwall's airport to make a clean break and start anew.
What Cornwall needs is a centrally located modest airport, perhaps a 7000ft runway but a longer one might be convenient for the occasional fuel stop before a heavy crosses the pond, a modest terminal, perhaps a freight facility, and with good road and perhaps rail connections and not a bl00dy great airfield & RAF camp the size of St. Mawgan, particularly one at an elevation of some 600ft.
So why not develop somewhere like the former RAF Portreath:
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cg...=1&scale=25000
OK, it seems to have about 4 runways but from the pic it appears only one runway has been maintained, a cross runway is always handy for crosswind conditions, but development can be concentrated on a tailor made commercial airport rather than an RAF base with a civilian terminal as far away as possible.
Portreath is about 2 miles off the A30 and about 3 miles from a railway line and Redruth station, it is in a non built up area and has approaches over the sea.
If the RAF are to pull the plug on St Mawgan then perhaps it might be the right time for Cornwall's airport to make a clean break and start anew.
