Going in and out at the same end (fnarr, fnarr)
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Coventry
Going in and out at the same end (fnarr, fnarr)
Excuse the innuendo, but I noticed something strange at MJV on Sunday.
It seemed that planes were landing and taking off to/from the North East.
This did not seem to be because of the wind changing, as I saw a light aircraft land from this direction just before we took off.
Is this normal practice - or is it only possible if the winds are very slight?
Presumably, airlines would want to go in this direction if possible, as it avoids them needing to turn around after take off.
A great view shortly after departue btw, those salt flats look really impressive, as do the windmills around Bardenas Reales. Pont St Nazairre looked impressive too.
Look like they are also building some additional facilities further inland from the existing runway. Couldn't find anything about the supposed new airport closer to Murcia.
Can anyone shed any light?
It seemed that planes were landing and taking off to/from the North East.
This did not seem to be because of the wind changing, as I saw a light aircraft land from this direction just before we took off.
Is this normal practice - or is it only possible if the winds are very slight?
Presumably, airlines would want to go in this direction if possible, as it avoids them needing to turn around after take off.
A great view shortly after departue btw, those salt flats look really impressive, as do the windmills around Bardenas Reales. Pont St Nazairre looked impressive too.
Look like they are also building some additional facilities further inland from the existing runway. Couldn't find anything about the supposed new airport closer to Murcia.
Can anyone shed any light?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Coventry
Turn it Off,
When you say the out of use runway / declared runway, are you referring to the same stip of tarmac, or are you talking about cross-wind runways?
This didn't look like a single event - all landings I saw, and all take-offs I witnessed were in / out of the same end of the runway.
Is it possible to have a choice of direction if the winds are low enough?
When you say the out of use runway / declared runway, are you referring to the same stip of tarmac, or are you talking about cross-wind runways?
This didn't look like a single event - all landings I saw, and all take-offs I witnessed were in / out of the same end of the runway.
Is it possible to have a choice of direction if the winds are low enough?
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Wales
I'm talking same stretch of Tarmac but using both ends. It is not normally a problem when we are quiet and have reguarly seen tail winds of up to ten knots taken to save a few track miles and 5 mins flying time for the radar circuit.
TIO
TIO
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Coventry
Thanks for the clarification.
I can see the logic of doing it, just hadn't seen it happen before.
Who ultimately makes the decision? Presumably, the airline would want it done if possible, as you say, five minutes' of flying is a fair amount of fuel at what I imagine would be an "expensive" part of the journey? Climbing straight up must be preferable to turning round 180deg and climbing?
However, there must be important safety concerns too, so is it down to airline ops, the pilot or ATC?
I can see the logic of doing it, just hadn't seen it happen before.
Who ultimately makes the decision? Presumably, the airline would want it done if possible, as you say, five minutes' of flying is a fair amount of fuel at what I imagine would be an "expensive" part of the journey? Climbing straight up must be preferable to turning round 180deg and climbing?
However, there must be important safety concerns too, so is it down to airline ops, the pilot or ATC?
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Wales
In general, and just talking about Cardiff, we can make a fair guess at which a/c are going to want which runway, approaches from the south and east have less track miles for 30, from the north and west less for 12.
If the wind is calm, say 5 knots or less, when I see an estimate time coming up for an inbound I will normally phone approach and tell them that both ends are available ( obviously dependent upon traffic). Then with phraseology something like " Runway 30 in use, 12 is available, surfice wind xxx @ 5 report your intentions." the pilot will either say 12 or 30. We have tied it up so all that is left is to switch the ILS and Lights.
A pilot may request it in which case, APR call TWR and then make a decision based on traffic. Ultimately, it is the tower controllers responsibility to say yes or no, but with a lot of co-ordination from the approach man / lady.
A similkar process for departures as well.
Personally, I will always use the most into wind runway, if the surface wind goes round in circles then the forecast 3000' wind or a 1000' wind check from an inbound to help decide. Any aircraft who wants to land or taxi to the In use runway takes priority over any aircraft positioning for the out of use runway. (Unless in an emergency situation).
Hope that helps
TIO
If the wind is calm, say 5 knots or less, when I see an estimate time coming up for an inbound I will normally phone approach and tell them that both ends are available ( obviously dependent upon traffic). Then with phraseology something like " Runway 30 in use, 12 is available, surfice wind xxx @ 5 report your intentions." the pilot will either say 12 or 30. We have tied it up so all that is left is to switch the ILS and Lights.
A pilot may request it in which case, APR call TWR and then make a decision based on traffic. Ultimately, it is the tower controllers responsibility to say yes or no, but with a lot of co-ordination from the approach man / lady.
A similkar process for departures as well.
Personally, I will always use the most into wind runway, if the surface wind goes round in circles then the forecast 3000' wind or a 1000' wind check from an inbound to help decide. Any aircraft who wants to land or taxi to the In use runway takes priority over any aircraft positioning for the out of use runway. (Unless in an emergency situation).
Hope that helps
TIO
