bmi fly to Mumbai and Riyadh.
acbus1, I can advise you that bmi have been heavily involved in security considerations before taking on the Riyadh route. It would be improper of me to post details of what those are here; but having been involved in them myself, I can assure you (and any bmi employees) that their decision has been taken after proper consideration.
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bmi have been heavily involved in security considerations before taking on the riyadh route
I think the morning whiff of horse manure has made all your brains a bit soft !
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I can imagine all the managers sat up in Don Hall, watching the cows grazing in the fields and watching the fluffy white sheep wandering past your front windows !
Think you'll find that the Security Department is based at Stockley/Queens.
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Flightrider,
I'm surprised that any UK airlines security department could do a review of Riyadh security and come to the conclusion you stated!
I'm even more amazed that someone thinks you are going to make money from the route! I could understand if you were to take over the Jeddah route with the associated religious traffic, but not Riyadh.
Mutt.
I'm surprised that any UK airlines security department could do a review of Riyadh security and come to the conclusion you stated!
I'm even more amazed that someone thinks you are going to make money from the route! I could understand if you were to take over the Jeddah route with the associated religious traffic, but not Riyadh.
Mutt.
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Washington back to United
my understanding is that IAD route will not last for very long as United is supposed to take the route BACK. Which is probably why BMI prefers to use the A330 to Saudi Arabia as this will be a permanent route.
I havent heard that the airline is going to get a new A330. It seems quite unlikely at the moment.
Personally i wouldnt mind at at to do Riyadh route.
i went to Israel and felt very safe there. What you see on CNN does not always reflect the reality.
Besides i would rather take the risk than doing LBA-MAN-GLA-MNE nightstops forever!!
I havent heard that the airline is going to get a new A330. It seems quite unlikely at the moment.
Personally i wouldnt mind at at to do Riyadh route.
i went to Israel and felt very safe there. What you see on CNN does not always reflect the reality.
Besides i would rather take the risk than doing LBA-MAN-GLA-MNE nightstops forever!!
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What do you mean by United take route back, it`s never been their route in the first place as they have never operated from Manchester and god help us if they do as their cabin service is very poor compared to BMI
G-I-B
G-I-B
Lady Lexxington
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Just a thought on all of this moving around and leasing of aircraft, with the eu rules regarding overbooking, is the downgrading of the IAD to a significantly lower capacity a/c not going to cost a small fortune?
Oshkosh - Have also heard that an EK 330 has been taken back to TLS for respraying, with two more to follow. I don't know which reg though. Time, as usual, will tell on this.
Oshkosh - Have also heard that an EK 330 has been taken back to TLS for respraying, with two more to follow. I don't know which reg though. Time, as usual, will tell on this.
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pacific heights
I know a change of scenery would be nice for a short time, but you do realise that you will be practically locked up in your hotel for the entire nightstop.
At least at LBA, GLA, EDI etc.. you can get out and about
And lets face it, the saudis are not great supporters of and do not encourage tourism.
There is quite a big difference between saudi and israeli attitudes towards westerners.
I know a change of scenery would be nice for a short time, but you do realise that you will be practically locked up in your hotel for the entire nightstop.
At least at LBA, GLA, EDI etc.. you can get out and about
And lets face it, the saudis are not great supporters of and do not encourage tourism.
There is quite a big difference between saudi and israeli attitudes towards westerners.
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Just a small part of an article in todays Gulf News !
Riyadh has vowed to uproot al Qaeda militants who aim to topple Saudi Arabia's pro-Western monarchy and expel Westerners from the birthplace of Islam.
At least 170 people have been killed in the wave of violence since May 2003.
www.gulfnews.com
Riyadh has vowed to uproot al Qaeda militants who aim to topple Saudi Arabia's pro-Western monarchy and expel Westerners from the birthplace of Islam.
At least 170 people have been killed in the wave of violence since May 2003.
www.gulfnews.com
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At least 170 people have been killed in the wave of violence since May 2003.
That death toll increased today with an unknown number of people killed in Jeddah. There was a gun battle between security forces and terrorists, a number of civilians were reportedly killed.
Mutt.
That death toll increased today with an unknown number of people killed in Jeddah. There was a gun battle between security forces and terrorists, a number of civilians were reportedly killed.
Mutt.
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Advice from the UK foreign office :
Still Current at: 13 March 2005
Updated: 17 February 2005
Saudi Arabia
This advice has been reviewed and re-issued with an amendment to the Summary and Terrorism section. The overall level of the advice has not changed.
SUMMARY
There is a continuing high threat of terrorism in Saudi Arabia. We continue to believe that terrorists are planning further attacks, including against Westerners and places associated with Westerners in Saudi Arabia.
If you choose to travel to, or remain in, Saudi Arabia you should take all necessary steps to protect your safety and should make sure you have confidence in your individual security arrangements. You should maintain a high level of vigilance, particularly in public places frequented by foreigners.
We have allowed non-essential staff and dependants at our missions in Saudi Arabia to leave if they wish.
You should remember that Islamic law is strictly enforced in Saudi Arabia.
We strongly recommend that you obtain comprehensive travel and medical insurance before travelling.
SAFETY AND SECURITY
Terrorism/Security
There is a continuing high threat of terrorism in Saudi Arabia. We continue to believe that terrorists are planning further attacks in Saudi Arabia, including against Westerners and places associated with Westerners. We believe aviation interests remain a possible terrorist target. The Saudi security forces are maintaining enhanced security measures and have achieved notable success in disrupting terrorist operations, killing and capturing some terrorists and seizing arms and vehicle bombs.
Terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia have taken various forms, including kidnappings; large-scale truck bombings of residential compounds and Saudi government offices; targeted shootings of individuals; small-scale car bombings; parcel bombings; and bombing of shopping areas.
Here are examples of recent security incidents in Saudi Arabia. In December 2004, terrorists attacked the US Consulate in Jeddah. At least eight people were killed, including some of the attackers. On 26 September 2004, a French national was shot and killed in Jeddah, whilst driving back to his residential compound. In the preceding three months, six Westerners, including one Briton, were shot and killed (one was kidnapped first) in separate incidents in Riyadh. In May 2004, terrorists killed 22 people, including one British national in Al Khobar, Eastern Province and eight people were killed, including two British nationals, in shooting attacks in Yanbu (about 200km north of Jeddah). In April, a truck bomb in Riyadh killed at least five people and injured about 150. In May and November 2003, terrorists attacked residential compounds in Riyadh killing 48, including two British nationals, and injuring many more.
If you choose to travel to, or remain in, Saudi Arabia, you should take all necessary steps to protect your safety and should make sure you have confidence in your individual security arrangements.
You should maintain a high level of vigilance, particularly in public places frequented by foreigners. You should take sensible precautions for your personal and vehicle safety.
We have allowed non-essential staff and dependants at our missions in Saudi Arabia to leave if they wish.
British residents in Saudi Arabia are given specific guidance by our mission, including through Wardens notices. Advice is available to visitors from the British Embassy in Riyadh, the British Consulate General in Jeddah and from the Embassy website: http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/saudiarabia (click on "Consular").
Please read "Security and General Tips" and "Risk of Terrorism when Travelling Overseas". You should follow news reports and be alert to regional developments. Any increase in regional tension might affect travel advice.
Still Current at: 13 March 2005
Updated: 17 February 2005
Saudi Arabia
This advice has been reviewed and re-issued with an amendment to the Summary and Terrorism section. The overall level of the advice has not changed.
SUMMARY
There is a continuing high threat of terrorism in Saudi Arabia. We continue to believe that terrorists are planning further attacks, including against Westerners and places associated with Westerners in Saudi Arabia.
If you choose to travel to, or remain in, Saudi Arabia you should take all necessary steps to protect your safety and should make sure you have confidence in your individual security arrangements. You should maintain a high level of vigilance, particularly in public places frequented by foreigners.
We have allowed non-essential staff and dependants at our missions in Saudi Arabia to leave if they wish.
You should remember that Islamic law is strictly enforced in Saudi Arabia.
We strongly recommend that you obtain comprehensive travel and medical insurance before travelling.
SAFETY AND SECURITY
Terrorism/Security
There is a continuing high threat of terrorism in Saudi Arabia. We continue to believe that terrorists are planning further attacks in Saudi Arabia, including against Westerners and places associated with Westerners. We believe aviation interests remain a possible terrorist target. The Saudi security forces are maintaining enhanced security measures and have achieved notable success in disrupting terrorist operations, killing and capturing some terrorists and seizing arms and vehicle bombs.
Terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia have taken various forms, including kidnappings; large-scale truck bombings of residential compounds and Saudi government offices; targeted shootings of individuals; small-scale car bombings; parcel bombings; and bombing of shopping areas.
Here are examples of recent security incidents in Saudi Arabia. In December 2004, terrorists attacked the US Consulate in Jeddah. At least eight people were killed, including some of the attackers. On 26 September 2004, a French national was shot and killed in Jeddah, whilst driving back to his residential compound. In the preceding three months, six Westerners, including one Briton, were shot and killed (one was kidnapped first) in separate incidents in Riyadh. In May 2004, terrorists killed 22 people, including one British national in Al Khobar, Eastern Province and eight people were killed, including two British nationals, in shooting attacks in Yanbu (about 200km north of Jeddah). In April, a truck bomb in Riyadh killed at least five people and injured about 150. In May and November 2003, terrorists attacked residential compounds in Riyadh killing 48, including two British nationals, and injuring many more.
If you choose to travel to, or remain in, Saudi Arabia, you should take all necessary steps to protect your safety and should make sure you have confidence in your individual security arrangements.
You should maintain a high level of vigilance, particularly in public places frequented by foreigners. You should take sensible precautions for your personal and vehicle safety.
We have allowed non-essential staff and dependants at our missions in Saudi Arabia to leave if they wish.
British residents in Saudi Arabia are given specific guidance by our mission, including through Wardens notices. Advice is available to visitors from the British Embassy in Riyadh, the British Consulate General in Jeddah and from the Embassy website: http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/saudiarabia (click on "Consular").
Please read "Security and General Tips" and "Risk of Terrorism when Travelling Overseas". You should follow news reports and be alert to regional developments. Any increase in regional tension might affect travel advice.
Lady Lexxington
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Hann, any chance that the FO advice has actually been read at donington or stockley?
I wouldn't fancy working that route after having read that advice. Wasn't that the real reason BA pulled off the route, because FAs and flight deck woudn't operate it? (If I'm wrong I do apologise, but it was a rumour!)
I wouldn't fancy working that route after having read that advice. Wasn't that the real reason BA pulled off the route, because FAs and flight deck woudn't operate it? (If I'm wrong I do apologise, but it was a rumour!)
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I know what you mean lexxity- it makes you wonder doesn't it !
BA decided against it, VA decided against it
Just goes to show the risk some airlines are prepared to take just to get a foot in the door - in this case, a route from LHR.
BA decided against it, VA decided against it
Just goes to show the risk some airlines are prepared to take just to get a foot in the door - in this case, a route from LHR.
With MY reputation?
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Algy,
I agree in principle, but there's got to be a compromise somewhere along the line, ESPECIALLY when other airlines are pulling out due to security considerations. Seems that bmi have gone along the road of "There's demand for the route regardless of the (VERY REAL) risk, someone should be flying it, might as well be us..."
Not sure what message this sends from management to the bmi crews that are going to be flying the route, although I suspect there are a few folks of a "blue" persuasion that may suggest their own theories on this matter?
Phoenix Sun, places that are dangerous are also very good places to fly to (unless they're so dangerous that the aeroplane or crew might get shot at of course).
Not sure what message this sends from management to the bmi crews that are going to be flying the route, although I suspect there are a few folks of a "blue" persuasion that may suggest their own theories on this matter?
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The KSA has never been much of a tourist destination anyway - has anyone checked out their visa regs?
Even if numbers are down, those people who do want to fly this route are often government officials or business employees.
I would also expect that most westerners would rather fly with a European airline, as might quite a few of the locals. Why? Because KSA is a "dry" country, so these "flying pubs" will be the first legal booze for several months.
Aren't we all forgetting the Saudis who would use this route to fly TO London, and then possibly onwards?
My dad worked in the Asir region about 12 years ago, and I went out to visit him twice, once through JED and once through RUH. Let's not forget that Riyadh is also one of the fastest growing cities in the world - we hear about Dubai, because of its openness, but Riyadh is still a very important destination.
RUH was built to be the hub for the Middle East, and as us airport geeks will tell you countless times, is still the largest airport in the world - by area at least.
There is no denying that the KSA has some very serious issues to resolve, as does the rest of the Middle East. However, if one takes the eternal sunshine positive scenario, the current regime will eventually have to give way to one which will open up and allow more reforms. If the US ever manages to sort Iraq out, they will have to look at KSA - and I'm not suggesting invasion, we know about the ties between the Bush administration and the current Saudi royal family. Geographically, KSA is also at the centre of the Middle East, not forgetting its oil wealth (or what is left of it).
This is a bold move by BMI to get their foot in the door when BA had pulled back. They might be looking at a 20 year strategy, so who knows what the crystal ball will deliver?
Israel was quoted as an example above, and El Al have taken appropriate measures. Whatever happens on the ground, we are talking about the viability or otherwise of an air route. AFAIK, El Al have never had a single fatality as a result of terrorist actions against them.
I would hope that BMI have considered the security implications carefully, which the above posts suggest they have, and have suitable defence measures in place, which we hope we will never need to know about in any great detail.
Even if numbers are down, those people who do want to fly this route are often government officials or business employees.
I would also expect that most westerners would rather fly with a European airline, as might quite a few of the locals. Why? Because KSA is a "dry" country, so these "flying pubs" will be the first legal booze for several months.
Aren't we all forgetting the Saudis who would use this route to fly TO London, and then possibly onwards?
My dad worked in the Asir region about 12 years ago, and I went out to visit him twice, once through JED and once through RUH. Let's not forget that Riyadh is also one of the fastest growing cities in the world - we hear about Dubai, because of its openness, but Riyadh is still a very important destination.
RUH was built to be the hub for the Middle East, and as us airport geeks will tell you countless times, is still the largest airport in the world - by area at least.
There is no denying that the KSA has some very serious issues to resolve, as does the rest of the Middle East. However, if one takes the eternal sunshine positive scenario, the current regime will eventually have to give way to one which will open up and allow more reforms. If the US ever manages to sort Iraq out, they will have to look at KSA - and I'm not suggesting invasion, we know about the ties between the Bush administration and the current Saudi royal family. Geographically, KSA is also at the centre of the Middle East, not forgetting its oil wealth (or what is left of it).
This is a bold move by BMI to get their foot in the door when BA had pulled back. They might be looking at a 20 year strategy, so who knows what the crystal ball will deliver?
Israel was quoted as an example above, and El Al have taken appropriate measures. Whatever happens on the ground, we are talking about the viability or otherwise of an air route. AFAIK, El Al have never had a single fatality as a result of terrorist actions against them.
I would hope that BMI have considered the security implications carefully, which the above posts suggest they have, and have suitable defence measures in place, which we hope we will never need to know about in any great detail.
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can i withdraw my longhaul application now please...
Bombay and Riyadh...wish you were here? Makes Teeside suddenly a fabulous destination. My friends over at BA say they pulled off the route because of low loads and because of security.
As is was put to me ...."It was a case of WHEN NOT IF".
No flowers just a donation to my favourite charity please.....
Bombay and Riyadh...wish you were here? Makes Teeside suddenly a fabulous destination. My friends over at BA say they pulled off the route because of low loads and because of security.
As is was put to me ...."It was a case of WHEN NOT IF".
No flowers just a donation to my favourite charity please.....