Smelt alcohol on a Manchester security guard
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Smelt alcohol on a Manchester security guard
I passed through MAN Term 3 security on 03/03/2005 at 1600 travelling as a pax. The man shuffling the bags at the x-ray machine smelt of alcohol. Are these people allowed to work with alcohol in their system. Who should this be reported to?
Maybe there is one rule for crew and one for them.
Maybe there is one rule for crew and one for them.
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Sadly it would appear not quoting the CAA Fodcom
When:
• acting as a pilot, cabin crew, flight engineer, flight navigator or flight radio-telephony operator of an
aircraft during flight;
• attending the flight deck of an aircraft during flight to give or supervise training, to administer a test,
to observe a period of practice or to monitor or record the gaining of experience; or
• acting as an air traffic controller in pursuance of a licence granted under or by virtue of an
enactment (other than a licence granted to a student):
The prescribed limit of alcohol is:
a. In the case of breath: 9 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.
b. In the case of blood: 20 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.
So we are told what an important role these security people and the Police have yet they appear to be beyond the law (Railways and Transport safety act) themselves.
When:
• acting as a pilot, cabin crew, flight engineer, flight navigator or flight radio-telephony operator of an
aircraft during flight;
• attending the flight deck of an aircraft during flight to give or supervise training, to administer a test,
to observe a period of practice or to monitor or record the gaining of experience; or
• acting as an air traffic controller in pursuance of a licence granted under or by virtue of an
enactment (other than a licence granted to a student):
The prescribed limit of alcohol is:
a. In the case of breath: 9 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.
b. In the case of blood: 20 milligrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres.
So we are told what an important role these security people and the Police have yet they appear to be beyond the law (Railways and Transport safety act) themselves.
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Stampe
The CAA doesn't have anything to do with airport security; it is the preserve of the Dept. for Transport. Consequently it won't be in the CAA's FODCOM.
They are not allowed to drink on duty but I have to say I am struggling to find the reference in the DfT manual.
HWB
The CAA doesn't have anything to do with airport security; it is the preserve of the Dept. for Transport. Consequently it won't be in the CAA's FODCOM.
They are not allowed to drink on duty but I have to say I am struggling to find the reference in the DfT manual.
HWB
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I think it was the DofTs legislation, the CAA just issued the guidelines I quoted from.I,m very happy to hear the gaurdians of our airports are not allowed to drink whilst at work, presumably just before arriving at work is ok???.For this law to be seen to be fair I think the same blood/alcohol limit should be applied to all who work in public transport or service, law enforcement /judgement ,medicine and politics then I feel I could support it, even enthusiastcally.Of course they would have to close the bar in the House of Commons!!.
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This whole thing is ridiculous. If pilots have to follow such strict discipline, then I don't see why security checkers and ground personnel should not follow the same.
Even slightly imbibed, a security checker on the X-ray machine might not notice a potentially lethal device, while a ground person does not make sure that a cargo hatch is closed and locked.
We are not invincible. All of these things can happen while sober, but the percentage goes up rapidly while under the influence -- and not only alcohol.
Even slightly imbibed, a security checker on the X-ray machine might not notice a potentially lethal device, while a ground person does not make sure that a cargo hatch is closed and locked.
We are not invincible. All of these things can happen while sober, but the percentage goes up rapidly while under the influence -- and not only alcohol.
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LatviaCalling, as one of those ground people as you so nicely put it, I can tell you that I am subject to the same rules that apply to flight crew, in fact I can even be subjected to random alcohol/drug testing as well. 
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Stampe
Apart from 'normal drunkeness' offences there is nothing to stop security turning up having ahd a drink, as far as criminal law is concerned. Although thier internal discipline system may say otherwise, perhaps openfly should have rung the Airports Control room and reported him to them.
Pilots/CC/ATCO's are subject to the levels you quote, but ground engineers are subject to a higher limit, the same is applicable to car drivers.
While I would agree there is probably good reason to apply the pilot limits to everyone else in the industries quoted by you, the Goverment would need to be convinced, which may not be easy.
Apart from 'normal drunkeness' offences there is nothing to stop security turning up having ahd a drink, as far as criminal law is concerned. Although thier internal discipline system may say otherwise, perhaps openfly should have rung the Airports Control room and reported him to them.
Pilots/CC/ATCO's are subject to the levels you quote, but ground engineers are subject to a higher limit, the same is applicable to car drivers.
While I would agree there is probably good reason to apply the pilot limits to everyone else in the industries quoted by you, the Goverment would need to be convinced, which may not be easy.
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spannersatcx,
This is not a personal vendetta toward you or any of the ground handlers that have made my ride perfect, but rather an indictment against the airport authorities for their lapse in security measures.
You say that your randomly checked for all kinds of abuse, then the guys with the wands should also be. End item.
This is not a personal vendetta toward you or any of the ground handlers that have made my ride perfect, but rather an indictment against the airport authorities for their lapse in security measures.
You say that your randomly checked for all kinds of abuse, then the guys with the wands should also be. End item.
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It really is quite simple...
Call the local police sub-station at the MAN airport, it's on Tower Road, and report said security personel.
My guess is that the police folks will be in attendance presently...cuffs in hand, if needed.
Well, I would certainly hope so anyway.
My guess is that the police folks will be in attendance presently...cuffs in hand, if needed.
Well, I would certainly hope so anyway.
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Stampe
Drug and alcohol limits and testing apply to all railway staff involved in what is termed a 'safety critical' activity, that is anything that may result in you being killed or injured.
Includes signalmen, train drivers, maintenance staff, control room staff, those engaged in examination, inspection and patrolling of the railway line and its equipment.
Transport and Works Act 1992, as amended
Includes signalmen, train drivers, maintenance staff, control room staff, those engaged in examination, inspection and patrolling of the railway line and its equipment.
Transport and Works Act 1992, as amended
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411A
All very well, one major problem with calling the old bill...the guy, unless drunk and incapable, or diorderly, has committed NO offence. Yes, it probably should be, but isn't.
All very well, one major problem with calling the old bill...the guy, unless drunk and incapable, or diorderly, has committed NO offence. Yes, it probably should be, but isn't.
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Disadvantage
There is one big disadvantage to drinking alcohol as a security guard - it makes it very difficult to small alcohol on the breath of someone else - departing pilots etc.
Kind of spoils the fun.
Kind of spoils the fun.
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Alcohol
Just to point out.....
I would expect that the security officer in question will have been working on a shift pattern and he/she may have just arrived at work after having a pub lunch with one pint of beer before driving to the airport within the law!!
I would expect that the security officer in question will have been working on a shift pattern and he/she may have just arrived at work after having a pub lunch with one pint of beer before driving to the airport within the law!!
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I haven't the faintest idea what the rules for Manchester Airport employees are, but the BAA have a very comprehensive non-alcohol policy.
The BAA introduced a no-alchohol policy about 20 years ago - no drinking whilst at work (even on a break) no drnking in uniform after work, no coming to work 'having had a drink'. This not only applies to 'passenger-facing' people but also office types and when we're out with customers and visitors. Exceptions can be made for evening functions well away from the airport but are rare. This policy transformed our working environment and the passenger experience. I regard it as enlightened thinking and I wish other employers would set such clear-cut guidelines.
Yes, I DO enjoy a drink! but in the right place at the right time.
Cheers,
TOO
The BAA introduced a no-alchohol policy about 20 years ago - no drinking whilst at work (even on a break) no drnking in uniform after work, no coming to work 'having had a drink'. This not only applies to 'passenger-facing' people but also office types and when we're out with customers and visitors. Exceptions can be made for evening functions well away from the airport but are rare. This policy transformed our working environment and the passenger experience. I regard it as enlightened thinking and I wish other employers would set such clear-cut guidelines.
Yes, I DO enjoy a drink! but in the right place at the right time.
Cheers,
TOO
Suggests an interesting argument that if an employee is expected not to drink for x hours prior to reporting for work, is he/she entitled to pay for those hours?
Still, having seen the absolute chaotic shambles that the security lines for SLF are at LHR T4, personally, I'd start by firing whoever is in charge and some of his/her deputies. To see the line stop because of shift change and nothing happen for 10 minutes should see mass employment terminations of mangement......
Added to gates out of use, insufficient staff....it's a shambles for which there should be suitable management punishments - firing squads might be a little excessive, but public floggings probably would be suitable......
Still, having seen the absolute chaotic shambles that the security lines for SLF are at LHR T4, personally, I'd start by firing whoever is in charge and some of his/her deputies. To see the line stop because of shift change and nothing happen for 10 minutes should see mass employment terminations of mangement......
Added to gates out of use, insufficient staff....it's a shambles for which there should be suitable management punishments - firing squads might be a little excessive, but public floggings probably would be suitable......
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On a similar theme last week I watched a chap at Hatton Cross bus station in the jacket/hi-vis uniform of a major freight handler/worldwide courier drink a can of (Kronenburg I think but hey that's not important), get on the bus to the Cargo area, reasonable to assume going to work (this was around 7pm). As he was wearing hi-vis I assume there's a fair chance he was going to load containers/whatnot onto yellow 757s. There must be rules (byelaws/laws?) against this ......???
As for BAA there's enough staff from the other companies at Heathrow in the T2 bar after work! Out of sheer curiosity next time I'm there I will see if any are in BAA green!
WT
-also banned from drinking during working hours, albeit in a nonsafety critical office job!
As for BAA there's enough staff from the other companies at Heathrow in the T2 bar after work! Out of sheer curiosity next time I'm there I will see if any are in BAA green!
WT
-also banned from drinking during working hours, albeit in a nonsafety critical office job!
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World Traveller
Most people are banned from drinking at work.
Your man in Hi-viz at Hatton X might have been going to work, but then also may have been going home.
The buses from there also go to places like Stanwell.
But in any case, no there is no law, or bylaw that prevents him doing that.
Most people are banned from drinking at work.
Your man in Hi-viz at Hatton X might have been going to work, but then also may have been going home.
The buses from there also go to places like Stanwell.
But in any case, no there is no law, or bylaw that prevents him doing that.