BHX AGP Overkill S05
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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BHX AGP Overkill S05
During Jan VZ and WW both offer Daily AGP departures from BHX.
By June, with the latest announcement from Monarch Scheduled, there will be the following:-
ZB Daily
WW Daily
BE Daily
VZ Twice Daily
plus 2 daily from CVT with TOM
Will someone suffer? ZB are boasting that they pushed WW and IB off the MAN BCN route - are they going in for the squeeze on certain operators at BHX this summer?
By June, with the latest announcement from Monarch Scheduled, there will be the following:-
ZB Daily
WW Daily
BE Daily
VZ Twice Daily
plus 2 daily from CVT with TOM
Will someone suffer? ZB are boasting that they pushed WW and IB off the MAN BCN route - are they going in for the squeeze on certain operators at BHX this summer?
Join Date: Jul 2004
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true it is a little overkill even though it is a popular route. You would think the loco's would think more strategically and look where the next ex-pat cheap house boom will be!
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Avman ,
What is this obsession with Maastricht? Even Ryanair pulled out, and I don't know of any good beaches nearby.
Karnak,
Shouldn't we leave the crystal balls to the London operators, who can afford to take more chances. The regionals will usually follow the leaders - although fair play to TOM for having a crack at MRS, and leading the way at VLC.
Teruel, 150k north of VLC has been rated as one of the next boom locations. FR ex LPL and Flybe ex SOU are having a good crack at Limoges too, rated as the cheapest place in France. AGP will always fill the seats, so it must be a safe bet for all concerned.
egnxema,
How much have BCN comings and goings got to do with capacity constraints there, rather than competition at the UK end?
Avman,
What is this obsession with Maastricht? Even Ryanair pulled out, and I don't know of any good beaches nearby.
Karnak,
Shouldn't we leave the crystal balls to the London operators, who can afford to take more chances. The regionals will usually follow the leaders - although fair play to TOM for having a crack at MRS, and leading the way at VLC.
Teruel, 150k north of VLC has been rated as one of the next boom locations. FR ex LPL and Flybe ex SOU are having a good crack at Limoges too, rated as the cheapest place in France. AGP will always fill the seats, so it must be a safe bet for all concerned.
egnxema,
How much have BCN comings and goings got to do with capacity constraints there, rather than competition at the UK end?
Avman,
jabird , you'll never make a good detective 
No obsession with MST, but with BHX ! Incidentally, the reason Ryanair failed at MST was simply because the route needed two daily, well timed, flights. What they offered was a single daily with poor timing. With EIN only 50mins (30mins for North Limburgers) drive up the road and better timings many continued to fly from EIN.
No obsession with MST, but with BHX ! Incidentally, the reason Ryanair failed at MST was simply because the route needed two daily, well timed, flights. What they offered was a single daily with poor timing. With EIN only 50mins (30mins for North Limburgers) drive up the road and better timings many continued to fly from EIN.
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This issue was brought up on the 7th when bmibaby started operations on Midlands Today. They interviewed a guy from Monarch who gave figures that despite the large number of flights to AGP, the majority of passengers going to AGP from the midlands flew out of a non-midlands airport ie not BHX,CVT or EMA.
Did anyone else see this to give exact figures?
Did anyone else see this to give exact figures?
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Mark BHX,
I'd love to find out. From the White paper (generally)
Chapter 9 - The Midlands
Key issues
9.2 An important feature of the air travel market in the region is that currently less than half the air passengers travelling to or from the Midlands use the region's airports. In 2000, 37 per cent flew from South East Airports. Manchester also attracts a significant share of Midlands passengers.
This is precisely why we also need to be supporting CVT, even our BHX obsessives like Avman
I'd love to find out. From the White paper (generally)
Chapter 9 - The Midlands
Key issues
9.2 An important feature of the air travel market in the region is that currently less than half the air passengers travelling to or from the Midlands use the region's airports. In 2000, 37 per cent flew from South East Airports. Manchester also attracts a significant share of Midlands passengers.
This is precisely why we also need to be supporting CVT, even our BHX obsessives like Avman
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Actually it was Ba as part of oneworld who made Ib pull off Man to Bcn and continuation to Mad route,as they own the route and Ib are not best chuffed.Ib only ever operated with Ba,s permission as they are both oneworld partners,However,Ba were losing on their own direct Man Mad route so they grabbed IB by the throat and finished them off at MAN.likewise which they did with Qantas and are also trying to do to American Airlines.Btw BA also own the traffic rights from Man to Mia and Bos and will not let AA operate both services all year round as BA want us all to connect through Heathrow.As for WW Man to Bcn,a proper early slot was never available to WW on the route so the timing was really bad hence the route was cancelled.However,it was never Monarch,s triumph that they seen off Ib and WW at Man,in fact Monarch Scheduled has got so scared of lcc,s that they dont offer any frills any more and slf have to pay for everything on board a Monarch Scheduled flight in order for them to try to reduce fares and to try to compete.Personally I think Flybe will be very vunerable at Bhx as they dont have their own aircraft their and may have to pay very high leasing bills over the summer.Also by the law of averages,surely another of the lcc,s must wind up soon as they all start to dig deep into their pockets.The question is ,whose pockets are deep enough.
Last edited by glynn-kayes; 13th Jan 2005 at 08:03.
There are no such things as "Traffic Rights" within the EU, so traffic rights can have had nothing to do with the termination of IB services from MAN.
Commercial agreements / contracts between members of One World may well have however.
Where US routes are concerned, then "Traffic Rights" are definately a factor.
Commercial agreements / contracts between members of One World may well have however.
Where US routes are concerned, then "Traffic Rights" are definately a factor.
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ATNotts is absolutely right. There are no traffic rights issues on intra-EU services. Glynn-Kayes, I'm afraid you're wrong.
Issues you *will* have on intra-EU services:
- getting decent slots (or *any* slots at LHR)
- dealing with your alliance partners
As for UK-US services, I don't quite understand the assertion that "BA owns the traffic rights from MAN to MIA and BOS." Under Bermuda II surely there are separate traffic rights for UK and US carriers? Are you really saying that AA wasn't able to operate MAN-BOS in its own right but had to make a commercial deal with BA to use BA's rights?
Issues you *will* have on intra-EU services:
- getting decent slots (or *any* slots at LHR)
- dealing with your alliance partners
As for UK-US services, I don't quite understand the assertion that "BA owns the traffic rights from MAN to MIA and BOS." Under Bermuda II surely there are separate traffic rights for UK and US carriers? Are you really saying that AA wasn't able to operate MAN-BOS in its own right but had to make a commercial deal with BA to use BA's rights?
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Bermuda II doesn't cover regional airports. There is an open skies agreement between regional airports and the USA. Therfore no single airline "owns" traffic rights between Man and the USA. Any US carrier or UK carrier can operate whatever flights they want betwenn MAN and the US. Sounds like another BA-MAN conspiracy theory.
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Personally I think Flybe will be very vunerable at Bhx as they dont have their own aircraft their and may have to pay very high leasing bills over the summer.
Fried Chicken
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Personally I think Flybe will be very vunerable at Bhx as they dont have their own aircraft their and may have to pay very high leasing bills over the summer.
Do you not think that flybe have looked into the economic viability of opening these new routes and the costs involved with operating leased a/c??
Do you think they just walk into something like this blindfolded?
Put down your binoculars and learn a thing or two about the airline industry mate!!
