WIZZ LTN-Charleroi
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Wouldn't you like to know!
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This one might work as there aren't hardly any low cost airlines on the London - Brussels route.
However, if Ryanair couldn't make it route without subsidies dont see much help for Wizz.
However, if Ryanair couldn't make it route without subsidies dont see much help for Wizz.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Coventry
Age: 48
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Presumably airlines like Wizz have lower staff costs if they mainly hire in "Central" Europe? I know wages there might eventually catch up, but this will take time. I can't see much logic in this particular route though (prices would have to be very low to tempt people away from Eurostar, which is quicker to Brussels than it is to Paris).
However, how much of FR's staying away from CRL is "political"? Maybe another airline could make the route work - presumably the a/c would be W'd from somewhere, rather than being based at LTN or CRL?
However, how much of FR's staying away from CRL is "political"? Maybe another airline could make the route work - presumably the a/c would be W'd from somewhere, rather than being based at LTN or CRL?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North of 50N
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point regarding Eurostar which from 2007, will originate at the newly re-vamped St Pancras Station thereby enabling passengers from Luton's primary catchment area to travel to the centres of Brussels and Paris relatively easily and without having to cross London to access Waterloo.
Still, a Luton to Charleroi route might work for a couple of years so good luck to WIZZ if they try it!
I would have thought that some lo-cost Scandinavian routes would have been equally viable from/to Luton but thus far, nobody seems interested (apart from the long-defunct Debonair's former service).
Who knows...??
Still, a Luton to Charleroi route might work for a couple of years so good luck to WIZZ if they try it!
I would have thought that some lo-cost Scandinavian routes would have been equally viable from/to Luton but thus far, nobody seems interested (apart from the long-defunct Debonair's former service).
Who knows...??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Barton Upon Humber
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would have thought that some lo-cost Scandinavian routes would have been equally viable from/to Luton but thus far, nobody seems interested (apart from the long-defunct Debonair's former service).
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: London Whipsnade Wildlife Park
Posts: 5,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair begin services to Scandinavia in 3 weeks time from Luton to Vasteras and Esbjerg.
Sterling would be good, their xmas shopping flights might be a 'toe in the water'?
Wizz to EBCI, seems strange especially within a couple of years Eurostar will be operating direct to the Belgian capital in 2.5 hours from St Pancras!
Sterling would be good, their xmas shopping flights might be a 'toe in the water'?
Wizz to EBCI, seems strange especially within a couple of years Eurostar will be operating direct to the Belgian capital in 2.5 hours from St Pancras!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London FIR
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like another drain into which they have decided to pour their money.
Whilst admittedly, this doesn't look like a particularly good idea, as an airline WIZZ is doing quite well at the moment, particularly on many of its routes within continental Europe, so much so that LOT is about to launch its own low-cost subsidiary to try to claw back some of the lost business. WIZZ was voted the best airline in Hungary in 2004 by the readers of Budapest Business Journal and has announced new routes from Warsaw starting 27 March 2005 to Paris/Beauvais, Frankfurt/Hahn, Stockholm/Skavsta and Barcelona/Girona.
Clearly, it's emulating MoL who is certainly not one to pour money down any drains!
Or come to think of it maybe you're just a devout and practising cynic...??
A Luton – Brussels service would be comparable with the ex Luton – Liverpool service in terms of travelling time for an equivalent train service from London. No problems filling the aircraft at £5 a seat but whether any profit can be made is another story.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Crawley
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAP 670, no I do not work for any of those organisations nor do I have any shares in any of them either. But I do have a solid knowledge of the London/Begium air markets. For reasons of anonymity I will not disclose where I gained that knowledge but I am sure that if you knew you would recognise that my views are based on real knowledge and not just opinions.
The first problem that WIZZ have to face is the sheer length of the sector which is likely to be a maximum of 30 minutes from runway to runway. That severely limits the revenue earning opportunities. Ground costs as a proportion of total costs on sectors such as these place a severe squeeze on potential profitability. Traditionally they make anything other than losses impossible.
The second problem is that the whole Brussels region is far less attractive for the UK originating leisure traveller than many other areas of Europe. For obvious reasons Paris is by far the number one city leisure destination. Just go round Brussels on a Saturday afternoon even in summer and it is very dead compared with most other European cities. It has none of the charisma associated with AMS or PRG for example.
Third problem is that Eurostar has decimated airline traffic between the whole of the London area and the Brussels region and adjacent areas.
Fourth is the I cannot believe that RYR withdrew from Charleroi just because of a tiff and the legal actions. The truth, I suspect, is that the route could not stand any higher costs. In other words it was already marginal or loss making.
Fifth, the A320 is a large aeroplane for such a market. Ther emust be something better that WIZZ can do with it than LTN-Charleroi.
Sixth, the economics of aircraft like the A320 do improve as the sector length increases. Just one of the reasons why the holiday airlines such as BY, MON, etc were so successful was that they had average sectors of 2 hours 45. That meant good utilisation of everything and annual flying hours well in excess of 4, 000. That doesn't half do wonders for the acquisition cost per seat mile. The CAA Cascade studies of the early 1980's (if my memory serves me correctly) showed that that alone was worth 15% on unit costs compared with traditional arilines.
Anyway WIZZ seems to have lots of PPRune supporters but I remain sceptical as to the value of LTN-Charleroi. Let us see.
The first problem that WIZZ have to face is the sheer length of the sector which is likely to be a maximum of 30 minutes from runway to runway. That severely limits the revenue earning opportunities. Ground costs as a proportion of total costs on sectors such as these place a severe squeeze on potential profitability. Traditionally they make anything other than losses impossible.
The second problem is that the whole Brussels region is far less attractive for the UK originating leisure traveller than many other areas of Europe. For obvious reasons Paris is by far the number one city leisure destination. Just go round Brussels on a Saturday afternoon even in summer and it is very dead compared with most other European cities. It has none of the charisma associated with AMS or PRG for example.
Third problem is that Eurostar has decimated airline traffic between the whole of the London area and the Brussels region and adjacent areas.
Fourth is the I cannot believe that RYR withdrew from Charleroi just because of a tiff and the legal actions. The truth, I suspect, is that the route could not stand any higher costs. In other words it was already marginal or loss making.
Fifth, the A320 is a large aeroplane for such a market. Ther emust be something better that WIZZ can do with it than LTN-Charleroi.
Sixth, the economics of aircraft like the A320 do improve as the sector length increases. Just one of the reasons why the holiday airlines such as BY, MON, etc were so successful was that they had average sectors of 2 hours 45. That meant good utilisation of everything and annual flying hours well in excess of 4, 000. That doesn't half do wonders for the acquisition cost per seat mile. The CAA Cascade studies of the early 1980's (if my memory serves me correctly) showed that that alone was worth 15% on unit costs compared with traditional arilines.
Anyway WIZZ seems to have lots of PPRune supporters but I remain sceptical as to the value of LTN-Charleroi. Let us see.
