Good News For Southampton Apt?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LHR pub filled with georgeous women
)- and that's hardly a pub.I'd be delighted if there were a positive answer to my question, however, me thinks it still has to be a trip into the West End or Richmond or somewhere like that.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
can we get back to the topic?
BAA bought SOU in order to stunt any growth it may have seen. Why do you think they built the terminal without much scope for expansion? Selling off the land that could have been used for apron space to the post office!?
Bournemouth will be the airport for the south within 5 years. Southampton will act like the 'city' airport for the south with high frequency and high fares for fat cats.
yesterday 10 diversions went into Bournemouth due the fog at SOU... 4 night stopped.
BAA bought SOU in order to stunt any growth it may have seen. Why do you think they built the terminal without much scope for expansion? Selling off the land that could have been used for apron space to the post office!?
Bournemouth will be the airport for the south within 5 years. Southampton will act like the 'city' airport for the south with high frequency and high fares for fat cats.
yesterday 10 diversions went into Bournemouth due the fog at SOU... 4 night stopped.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nakata, I don't see why any company would deliberately
of an investment they had made. There must have been circumstances which forced them to sell land to the Royal Mail. The regulatory environment means that BAA cannot cross subsidise capital investment so maybe the land needed to be sold to build the new terminal. Did BAA indeed sell the land, or was it in the conditions of Peter de Savery's clever sale which saw him retain some of the land?
Why the terminal is positioned at right angles to the runway is intriguing. Easy to see with hindsight how this might remove some growth options, but was it oversight or pandering to some other need we have overlooked?
Southampton airport\'s recent purchase of the land North East of the airport makes things interesting. Whilst not directly enabling any runway configuration changes it will create jobs locally and PAX who might use the airport (not to mention put the road through a tunnel and possibly safeguard the land for their own expansion aspirations?):
"BAA acquires 48 acre Northern Development Site at Southampton Airport
Southampton International Airport Ltd, a subsidiary of BAA plc has acquired the Northern Development Site, next to Southampton Airport, from Gazeley Properties Ltd for £5.75 million.
The 48 acre site has outline planning consent for 800,000 sq ft of office and warehouse development and is currently one of the largest sites zoned for employment uses in the local area. Strategically located on the northeast corner of the Airport, the site will require the construction of a new Link Road around the Airport's perimeter to secure its future development and provide fast and convenient access. The provision of the Link Road will also act as a relief road for Eastleigh town centre providing an alternative route for through traffic. This road is often referred to as "the Chickenhall Lane Link Road".
Commenting on the acquisition, David Cumming, Managing Director of Southampton Airport said:
"This is very important news for the region, because it allows one of the largest employment sites on the south coast to be developed, at a location with superb transport links by air, road and rail.
The Northern Development Site has strategic importance for the future viability of Southampton Airport, enabling it to remain as one of the UK's key regional airports and generator of business and commerce in Hampshire.
We will start immediately to plan how we can develop the site and assess how the new link road can be funded, which will not only provide direct access to the site, but also alleviate local traffic congestion by acting as a relief road for Eastleigh town centre.
We look forward to working with BAA Lynton, our commercial property division, Eastleigh Borough Council and Hampshire County Council over the coming months to bring forward development on this site."
Commenting on the sale of the land, John Duggan, Gazeley's CEO said: "We are pleased to be selling this site to BAA. This allows us to focus on our core business of developing large scale distribution space."
"
stunt any growth
Why the terminal is positioned at right angles to the runway is intriguing. Easy to see with hindsight how this might remove some growth options, but was it oversight or pandering to some other need we have overlooked?
Southampton airport\'s recent purchase of the land North East of the airport makes things interesting. Whilst not directly enabling any runway configuration changes it will create jobs locally and PAX who might use the airport (not to mention put the road through a tunnel and possibly safeguard the land for their own expansion aspirations?):
"BAA acquires 48 acre Northern Development Site at Southampton Airport
Southampton International Airport Ltd, a subsidiary of BAA plc has acquired the Northern Development Site, next to Southampton Airport, from Gazeley Properties Ltd for £5.75 million.
The 48 acre site has outline planning consent for 800,000 sq ft of office and warehouse development and is currently one of the largest sites zoned for employment uses in the local area. Strategically located on the northeast corner of the Airport, the site will require the construction of a new Link Road around the Airport's perimeter to secure its future development and provide fast and convenient access. The provision of the Link Road will also act as a relief road for Eastleigh town centre providing an alternative route for through traffic. This road is often referred to as "the Chickenhall Lane Link Road".
Commenting on the acquisition, David Cumming, Managing Director of Southampton Airport said:
"This is very important news for the region, because it allows one of the largest employment sites on the south coast to be developed, at a location with superb transport links by air, road and rail.
The Northern Development Site has strategic importance for the future viability of Southampton Airport, enabling it to remain as one of the UK's key regional airports and generator of business and commerce in Hampshire.
We will start immediately to plan how we can develop the site and assess how the new link road can be funded, which will not only provide direct access to the site, but also alleviate local traffic congestion by acting as a relief road for Eastleigh town centre.
We look forward to working with BAA Lynton, our commercial property division, Eastleigh Borough Council and Hampshire County Council over the coming months to bring forward development on this site."
Commenting on the sale of the land, John Duggan, Gazeley's CEO said: "We are pleased to be selling this site to BAA. This allows us to focus on our core business of developing large scale distribution space."
"
Last edited by ClickRich; 22nd Dec 2004 at 08:49.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Coast
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
can we get back to the topic?
BAA bought SOU in order to stunt any growth it may have seen. Why do you think they built the terminal without much scope for expansion? Selling off the land that could have been used for apron space to the post office!?
Bournemouth will be the airport for the south within 5 years. Southampton will act like the 'city' airport for the south with high frequency and high fares for fat cats.
yesterday 10 diversions went into Bournemouth due the fog at SOU... 4 night stopped.
BAA bought SOU in order to stunt any growth it may have seen. Why do you think they built the terminal without much scope for expansion? Selling off the land that could have been used for apron space to the post office!?
Bournemouth will be the airport for the south within 5 years. Southampton will act like the 'city' airport for the south with high frequency and high fares for fat cats.
yesterday 10 diversions went into Bournemouth due the fog at SOU... 4 night stopped.
As a frequent flyer from SOU and also an occasional flyer from BOH, I have come to appreciate both airports for what they currently are. Both can improve, and I am certain both will, but I personally don't feel that they will compete directly on many routes.
SOU is currently doing very well but the Terminal is bursting at times, but they are working on that. BAA is a public company which simply would not, and did not I am certain, buy SOU for anything other than well intentioned reasons. I do agree that previous management and the BAA group as a whole did not appreciate the potential at SOU when the Royal Mail land came up for grabs a few years back. But despite that, they have made good progress since, and I have always enjoyed travelling through the airport, on (at present count) up to 10 of their current routes.
BOH have provided me with some good alternatives on a couple of routes. I enjoy flying from there occasionally, although I have to drive there and can't get the train. A new terminal will do wonders down there, but I cannot share your prediction about BOH becoming the main southern airport. Prices on FlyBE might not be quite as cheap as RyanAir or ThomsonFly, but SOU is an easier airport to get to for far more people and the catchment area is far bigger IMO.
I will continue to use both airports and look forward to any competition that BOH may bring to SOU and FlyBE, but I really doubt that BOH's expansion will take too much traffic from SOU in the short or medium term, and probably not at all, as the catchment areas are different.
As for those diversions, I really don't see what bearing that has on anything! I'm sure Gatwick/Heathrow/Stansted/Luton etc, etc lose/gain each others traffic from time to time due to weather too...
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pompano Beach,FL- USA
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<<<I've been to that place you mention, Jim. Small winding road down a steep hill to a marina - just outside Southampton. Can't remember its name.
I'm amazed you didn't find anything worth seeing "inland" - you must have missed the heaps of ancient towns, Cathedrals, castles & countryside!>>>
Oh I've been to LHR MANY times and driven all around the country and went there for the first time when I was 23. I just had never see the Southwest part and I had 3 days a few months ago and wanted to put Land's End into my series of life's adventures.
I've been to Duxford, the British War Museum (gotten the British point of view contrasted with the Argentine (they have better steaks <bg> than those mad cows....) point of view from Buenos Aires), Parliment, Churchhill's underground, Black Swan pub, the Aviation Shop, and lots of other colorful places.
I diverted once in a UAL 727 to Cardiff and had 7 people on board and 5 were my family!
Seen the White Cliffs, the Hovercraft, Cambridge, Wells, Bath, Bideford, Felixstowe where the pence machine went nuts and paid me every time. Had a few pints in Sheffield and Liverpool. I've seen a grown many naked and been in a few Turkish gyms.
I love England and from a Yankee's point of view, its an all around good place to be. And of course, in big airplanes, we always HAVE to make the customary turn or two in the holding pattern. This reminds of why dogs lick themselves! It's also like why a dog can't pass up a fire hydrant or a good tree!
Nobody wants to give me a job in England and that's because you ahve funny license and plenty of people who want them.
To be a Direct Entry Captain, you have to go to those OTHER places in the world.
Merry Christmas to all of the world's citizens and may we find peace and properity someday!
DANIELP...It was not Lymington...I think it was slightly east or west of Southhampton by 5 miles or so.
The lady who ran the B and B was BERTA. She did the cooking too! Nice Lady and her English skills were excellent, but she had this accent of sorts!
The place has a small bar and restaurant. It is very close to a place that has 5 roads that come together in a confusing intersection. Car Parking was terrible.
Not that this will change the outcome of humanity,but somewhere west of this area of Southhampton is a business called ROACH FOODS. Not sure if it is named for Mr. Roach or the occupants of the building.
The TIN mines (former) are west out there too!
Trislander...that\'s that it. Fairly steep. Nice pier.
Anyway, I apologize for changing the direction of the thread.
I'm amazed you didn't find anything worth seeing "inland" - you must have missed the heaps of ancient towns, Cathedrals, castles & countryside!>>>
Oh I've been to LHR MANY times and driven all around the country and went there for the first time when I was 23. I just had never see the Southwest part and I had 3 days a few months ago and wanted to put Land's End into my series of life's adventures.
I've been to Duxford, the British War Museum (gotten the British point of view contrasted with the Argentine (they have better steaks <bg> than those mad cows....) point of view from Buenos Aires), Parliment, Churchhill's underground, Black Swan pub, the Aviation Shop, and lots of other colorful places.
I diverted once in a UAL 727 to Cardiff and had 7 people on board and 5 were my family!
Seen the White Cliffs, the Hovercraft, Cambridge, Wells, Bath, Bideford, Felixstowe where the pence machine went nuts and paid me every time. Had a few pints in Sheffield and Liverpool. I've seen a grown many naked and been in a few Turkish gyms.
I love England and from a Yankee's point of view, its an all around good place to be. And of course, in big airplanes, we always HAVE to make the customary turn or two in the holding pattern. This reminds of why dogs lick themselves! It's also like why a dog can't pass up a fire hydrant or a good tree!
Nobody wants to give me a job in England and that's because you ahve funny license and plenty of people who want them.
To be a Direct Entry Captain, you have to go to those OTHER places in the world.
Merry Christmas to all of the world's citizens and may we find peace and properity someday!
DANIELP...It was not Lymington...I think it was slightly east or west of Southhampton by 5 miles or so.
The lady who ran the B and B was BERTA. She did the cooking too! Nice Lady and her English skills were excellent, but she had this accent of sorts!
The place has a small bar and restaurant. It is very close to a place that has 5 roads that come together in a confusing intersection. Car Parking was terrible.
Not that this will change the outcome of humanity,but somewhere west of this area of Southhampton is a business called ROACH FOODS. Not sure if it is named for Mr. Roach or the occupants of the building.
The TIN mines (former) are west out there too!
Trislander...that\'s that it. Fairly steep. Nice pier.
Anyway, I apologize for changing the direction of the thread.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is it only me wanting to stick to the topic?
Forest Flyer:
Yes I may have sounded incredibly biased... thats because I am!
While I appreciate SOU has enviable connections, access and a wonderful modern terminal that people can be proud of I just don't se it as being a low cost hub.
once they called themselves the premier business airport, now the airport for all types of flyer. But i think you'll find BA & Eastern VERY pissed with the managment for allowing flybe's encroachment.
Are they using the extra land for a business park? or apron space to park night-stoppers?
Forgive me for being anti-SOU and pro-BOH.
Diversions from sou into boh are so frequent it just surprises me they can't upgrade their runway to full cat1 at least!
Forest Flyer:
Yes I may have sounded incredibly biased... thats because I am!
While I appreciate SOU has enviable connections, access and a wonderful modern terminal that people can be proud of I just don't se it as being a low cost hub.
once they called themselves the premier business airport, now the airport for all types of flyer. But i think you'll find BA & Eastern VERY pissed with the managment for allowing flybe's encroachment.
Are they using the extra land for a business park? or apron space to park night-stoppers?
Forgive me for being anti-SOU and pro-BOH.
Diversions from sou into boh are so frequent it just surprises me they can't upgrade their runway to full cat1 at least!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Coast
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is it only me wanting to stick to the topic?
I am pro-SOU and pro-BOH... I presume you are located nearer to BOH, hence the bias, but being a regular commuter living in the New Forest, I just think it's good for the region to have more and more choice. Ultimately more competition is usually only healthy.
I must admit I am not sure what BAA's intentions are with the land, but given that the only real restrictions on the airports growth are the apron space, car parking and the check in/departure lounge, and that the latter two are being worked on, I am confident they are looking at the former also.
As for making the runway Cat I, I can only assume that the low number of diversions and aircraft types that use SOU mean it probably isn't cost effective. Again, I can only summise of course.
I am all for the development of both SOU and BOH. SOU has shown the way in recent years, and I look forward to seeing how BOH reacts, but I am somewhat disappointed when people try to put down one local airport over another... from my point of view, the more from both, the better!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: South Coast
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was actually BA CitiExpress who operated the BRU service, with a codeshare with SN Brussels. BA cancelled flights left, right and centre when they had crew shortages for other routes. Thankfully, it's not a route I used much, but I was often there in the mornings when fellow pax were being rebooked via LHR or elsewhere because of BACX's crew problems.
BA's disgruntlement with SOU was due to BRAL/BA Citiexpress taking a high percentage of their card holders and high yield pax from LHR. BRAL loved the place because it made them so much money.
The situation became so bad that it forced BA to drop their fares from LHR, and then to replace some of the SOU based EMB145's with ATP's and J41's. When BAA SOU complained at the damage being done to the routes ex SOU it was clear that BA didn't really care as long as LHR was doing OK.
It is very good news that the BAA have bought the land to the North East and should enable the team to plan for more growth with a lot less juggling.
I hope that SOU continues to grow, it has the catchment area and surface links which BOH can only dream about; but BOH has the runway length that SOU dreams about
The situation became so bad that it forced BA to drop their fares from LHR, and then to replace some of the SOU based EMB145's with ATP's and J41's. When BAA SOU complained at the damage being done to the routes ex SOU it was clear that BA didn't really care as long as LHR was doing OK.
It is very good news that the BAA have bought the land to the North East and should enable the team to plan for more growth with a lot less juggling.
I hope that SOU continues to grow, it has the catchment area and surface links which BOH can only dream about; but BOH has the runway length that SOU dreams about
Doesn't matter a jot if you can't use it properly GrahamK :
BOH is a difficult to get to, small terminalled, backwater airport with a small catchment area.............................. but a nice runway.
SOU has a lot more going for it IMO.
BOH is a difficult to get to, small terminalled, backwater airport with a small catchment area.............................. but a nice runway.
SOU has a lot more going for it IMO.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: sunshine coast
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
surely not;
BOH and SOU have the same catchment. BOH has 4 million people living within a 90 minute driving distance. We will soon see which of these airports is going to flourish with their varied routes.
When BOH gets its new terminal and direct access road from the A338 it will be real competition to SOU.
The lack of a train station and motorway access doesn't put off nearly 300,000 Ryanair passengers per year, and thats just with 3 daily routes.
With whats been announced, BOH should handle between 850,000 to 950,000 PAX in 2005. This figure will only grow in following years.
You have to remember, if BUZZ hadn't been sold off, that BOH would actually be handling well over 1 million pax by now. With SOU still around 900,000 a year. Flybe only switched to loco because they saw the opportunity open up after Buzz was shut down. That event really has been the catalyst for Flybe and ironically they have Ryanair to thank for it.
BOH and SOU have the same catchment. BOH has 4 million people living within a 90 minute driving distance. We will soon see which of these airports is going to flourish with their varied routes.
When BOH gets its new terminal and direct access road from the A338 it will be real competition to SOU.
The lack of a train station and motorway access doesn't put off nearly 300,000 Ryanair passengers per year, and thats just with 3 daily routes.
With whats been announced, BOH should handle between 850,000 to 950,000 PAX in 2005. This figure will only grow in following years.
You have to remember, if BUZZ hadn't been sold off, that BOH would actually be handling well over 1 million pax by now. With SOU still around 900,000 a year. Flybe only switched to loco because they saw the opportunity open up after Buzz was shut down. That event really has been the catalyst for Flybe and ironically they have Ryanair to thank for it.
Last edited by FLYboh; 25th Dec 2004 at 09:20.
My memory may be defective, but I thought that SOU has been handling 1 million pax per annum for several years now.
The proximity of Portsmouth, Winchester, Basingstoke, Chichester, the M3 and the airport station on the main Waterloo - Southampton line give SOU an edge on the catchment area argument methinks.
BOH has errrr Bournemouth, Dorchester and points west.
The proximity of Portsmouth, Winchester, Basingstoke, Chichester, the M3 and the airport station on the main Waterloo - Southampton line give SOU an edge on the catchment area argument methinks.
BOH has errrr Bournemouth, Dorchester and points west.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: sunshine coast
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can check the stats on the CAA website and you will see that SOU only past the million mark last year.
2000 - 854,000
2001 - 857,000
2002 - 788,000
2003 - 1,218,000
2004 - on course for 1.6 million
Re Winchester etc, Yes they maybe closer to SOU than BOH. But they are still in the BOH catchment area. Just like BOH is in the SOU catchment area. It's not hard to see. Just mark out a 90 mile radius on a map around both airports and you'll see that they both share a huge catchment.
Ryanairs flights attract pax from as far as west london. I know people who have just booked the Thomsonfly Palma flights and they live in Cardiff. They've paid £21 return when Easy at Bristol were £101 each. If the flights are cheap enough people will travel some distance to get cheap flights. They saved 4 X £79 = £316. makes it worth while.
You mustn't fall into the trap of thinking that people fly from the closest airport. They don't. Price and choice play a huge part in the decision.
Any how Merry Christmas and we hope to see you on our BOH loco routes in the future. Just as I have used SOU in the past.
2000 - 854,000
2001 - 857,000
2002 - 788,000
2003 - 1,218,000
2004 - on course for 1.6 million
Re Winchester etc, Yes they maybe closer to SOU than BOH. But they are still in the BOH catchment area. Just like BOH is in the SOU catchment area. It's not hard to see. Just mark out a 90 mile radius on a map around both airports and you'll see that they both share a huge catchment.
Ryanairs flights attract pax from as far as west london. I know people who have just booked the Thomsonfly Palma flights and they live in Cardiff. They've paid £21 return when Easy at Bristol were £101 each. If the flights are cheap enough people will travel some distance to get cheap flights. They saved 4 X £79 = £316. makes it worth while.
You mustn't fall into the trap of thinking that people fly from the closest airport. They don't. Price and choice play a huge part in the decision.
Any how Merry Christmas and we hope to see you on our BOH loco routes in the future. Just as I have used SOU in the past.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Costa Del Solent
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
flyboh I think you'll find British European was in the loco market operating as flybe well before the buzz take-over. It is true that they saw an opportunity after buzz pulled out of BOH and decided to operate similar routes from SOU. Notice they didn't choose BOH for their operation though.
BOH is a great charter airport and may do ok out of the odd scheduled flight but in all seriousness, the terminal is a bit mickey mouse and with regards to pax inbound to BOH, who wants to fly there? SOU has regular trains, buses, the M3/M27 interchange, nearer and quicker to get to London and a well established past.
BOH is a great charter airport and may do ok out of the odd scheduled flight but in all seriousness, the terminal is a bit mickey mouse and with regards to pax inbound to BOH, who wants to fly there? SOU has regular trains, buses, the M3/M27 interchange, nearer and quicker to get to London and a well established past.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Almaty
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SOU has done extremely well over the years despite repeated attempts to stunt it by the local nimbys and councils. Hampshire has suffered for decades from a succession of anti-aviation councils and this continues today. To have prevailed despite this attitude is something of a miracle! Progress has been interrupted by many "developments" but it still continues.
BOH now has the opportunity to overtake SOU but there is a lot to do to make it a real winner. And geographically it will always have a disadvantage so fares will have to be significantly cheaper than SOU (and BRS) to tempt passengers. I for one certainly wouldn't fancy the cross-country trip from CWL or BRS!
BOH now has the opportunity to overtake SOU but there is a lot to do to make it a real winner. And geographically it will always have a disadvantage so fares will have to be significantly cheaper than SOU (and BRS) to tempt passengers. I for one certainly wouldn't fancy the cross-country trip from CWL or BRS!