Carlisle-Luton to start by summer 2005
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If the airport gets its act together there is actually a large catchment area including Dumfries and with decent advertising and a little persistence I'm sure it would work.
If the airport gets its act together there is actually a large catchment area including Dumfries and with decent advertising and a little persistence I'm sure it would work.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It was just a tongue in cheek reference to the famous BOH machine,and as I stated,I HAVE been to Carlisle airfield. Has everybody lost their humour?
I don't think I was running Carlisle down by using a bit of humour. Lighten up!
I don't think I was running Carlisle down by using a bit of humour. Lighten up!
Join Date: Apr 2004
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I would like to see ALL airports prosper.
You say Carlisle people are poorly served,but I've been checking distances.
Carlisle-Newcastle(nearest airport with flights?) is 56.3 miles.
Blairgowrie(where I live)------Edinburgh(nearest airport) is 55.9 miles
Blairgowrie----Aberdeen (2nd nearest? possibly Glasgow nearer--didn't check that!) is 75.2 miles.
So not any worse than me!
edited to say Glasgow is 87.7 miles from me.
You say Carlisle people are poorly served,but I've been checking distances.
Carlisle-Newcastle(nearest airport with flights?) is 56.3 miles.
Blairgowrie(where I live)------Edinburgh(nearest airport) is 55.9 miles
Blairgowrie----Aberdeen (2nd nearest? possibly Glasgow nearer--didn't check that!) is 75.2 miles.
So not any worse than me!
edited to say Glasgow is 87.7 miles from me.
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Oshkosh,
Are you pulling everyone's leg again?
Where's Blairgowrie in the list of largest UK towns & cities.
Carlisle must be just outside the top 30 - see http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/UK.htm for a list (not too favourable to Manchester though).
Virtually all of the cities on this list are well within 50 miles of an airport which offers scheduled passenger flights. Even those that aren't (Peterbrough? Swindon?) are well within reach of London by fast train services. Carlisle would also be a good starting point to explore Hadrian's Wall. As this is all leisure oriented, the £200 return fare just seems way out of line with the current market. But if FR have made Blackpool work twice per day, could they make Carlisle work too, or is the runway not long enough?
Are you pulling everyone's leg again?
Where's Blairgowrie in the list of largest UK towns & cities.
Carlisle must be just outside the top 30 - see http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/UK.htm for a list (not too favourable to Manchester though).
Virtually all of the cities on this list are well within 50 miles of an airport which offers scheduled passenger flights. Even those that aren't (Peterbrough? Swindon?) are well within reach of London by fast train services. Carlisle would also be a good starting point to explore Hadrian's Wall. As this is all leisure oriented, the £200 return fare just seems way out of line with the current market. But if FR have made Blackpool work twice per day, could they make Carlisle work too, or is the runway not long enough?
Join Date: Apr 2004
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You must remember,it's not just Blairgowrie. There are an awful lot of towns and villages between Edinburgh and Aberdeen!Dundee has an airport,but ONE service? So these people have to travel to Edinburgh too!
I don't know about Cumbria,so can't compare.
Anyway,I don't really want to hijack thread,so back to Carlisle.
Well,there you go!
From this site--------------
http://www.world-gazetteer.com/fr/fr_gb.htm
Carlisle Pop 2004-----------------74,700
Dundee Pop 2004-----------------155,400
I rest my case!
I don't know about Cumbria,so can't compare.
Anyway,I don't really want to hijack thread,so back to Carlisle.
Well,there you go!
From this site--------------
http://www.world-gazetteer.com/fr/fr_gb.htm
Carlisle Pop 2004-----------------74,700
Dundee Pop 2004-----------------155,400
I rest my case!
I'm Just A Lawnmower
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Maybe they should forget Carlisle and start up a service from Walney Island. I mean Barrow is certainly a long where from anywhere 
Alba Gu Brath
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Since we're talking numbers, the population of Blairgowrie in 2002 was just over 6,000. The power of Google! 
As for Carlisles catchment area, Cumbria has a population of approx 450,000 whilst Dumfries & Galloway has a population of approx 148,000. Quite a large population , however for the majority of people there are already established airports and routes that are a lot closer to them than Carlisle (South Cumbria closer to LPL & MAN, North D&G closer to PIK & GLA).
I have no doubt that there is a market to be tapped in the North West England / South West Scotland area. However, I would question whether that market justifys a daily point to point service on a BAe146. The publicity that a failed route will attract could damage Carlisles chances of being exploited by the Lo-Cos in the way that Blackpool, Inverness, etc have been.
As for Carlisles catchment area, Cumbria has a population of approx 450,000 whilst Dumfries & Galloway has a population of approx 148,000. Quite a large population , however for the majority of people there are already established airports and routes that are a lot closer to them than Carlisle (South Cumbria closer to LPL & MAN, North D&G closer to PIK & GLA).
I have no doubt that there is a market to be tapped in the North West England / South West Scotland area. However, I would question whether that market justifys a daily point to point service on a BAe146. The publicity that a failed route will attract could damage Carlisles chances of being exploited by the Lo-Cos in the way that Blackpool, Inverness, etc have been.
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BALIX
In the mid 80's Air Furness carried excellent loads for a while out of Barrow. If they hadn't kept crashing the Islanders it would have been interesting to see how it developed, they had an eye on Carlisle too.
In the mid 80's Air Furness carried excellent loads for a while out of Barrow. If they hadn't kept crashing the Islanders it would have been interesting to see how it developed, they had an eye on Carlisle too.
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I'm surprised at the negativity.
The cost of £200.00 is actually not excessive. I think you will find the absolutely useless Virgin West Coast more expensive even for their Cattle Class of a morning, let alone first. (Actually its thanks to Virgin for the large increase in domestic flights from the North West. they have done an excellent job to promote air travel).
For a lot of people in that area, it is time consuming enough to get to Carlisle, if the option of a flight was available from their then it would appeal to a lot of people. The demand is certainly there, it just hasn't been tapped.
At the moment, they will use LPL for LCC, GLA and MAN for long haul (most also appear to use London by utilising the train if not at peak hours) and PIK and NCL for other options. Therefore the market is quite fractured at the moment.
I can't speak on the operating costs of aircraft, and the best London airport to utilise would probably be LCY (perhaps an option for VLM?). It would also benefit from some interlining.
Other potential options for Carlisle could possibly be a seasonal service to IOM, DUB, BFS and Jersey but I doubt if it would be feasible for much else.
The cost of £200.00 is actually not excessive. I think you will find the absolutely useless Virgin West Coast more expensive even for their Cattle Class of a morning, let alone first. (Actually its thanks to Virgin for the large increase in domestic flights from the North West. they have done an excellent job to promote air travel).
For a lot of people in that area, it is time consuming enough to get to Carlisle, if the option of a flight was available from their then it would appeal to a lot of people. The demand is certainly there, it just hasn't been tapped.
At the moment, they will use LPL for LCC, GLA and MAN for long haul (most also appear to use London by utilising the train if not at peak hours) and PIK and NCL for other options. Therefore the market is quite fractured at the moment.
I can't speak on the operating costs of aircraft, and the best London airport to utilise would probably be LCY (perhaps an option for VLM?). It would also benefit from some interlining.
Other potential options for Carlisle could possibly be a seasonal service to IOM, DUB, BFS and Jersey but I doubt if it would be feasible for much else.
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niknak claims that the west coast rail upgrade is almost complete. Hmmm - the train service from Carlisle to London will be interrupted by engineering works every weekend between now and May 2005. I don’t call that complete. The new Virgin Pendolino train may look fab, but is actually less comfortable to ride in over a long journey than the Mark 3 carriage that it replaces. Sadly - trying to buy a Virgin train ticket over the internet is an exercise in frustration - has anyone at Virgin trains ever logged on to the ryanair or easyjet sites?
My family live on the west side of Cumbria. With a late night journey, no traffic, and a very aggressive driver, the airports of Newcastle or Blackpool are two hours away, PIK or MAN are three hours away. Driving to London is six hours at best, usually eight. I’m not interested whether Carlisle has a fancy terminal. I’m not interested in whether it’s on a 146 or a 747. I just want an easier and faster way to get between Cumbria and London.
I do tend to agree with those who say it needs an established name like ryanair to launch this properly if it is to succeed.
My family live on the west side of Cumbria. With a late night journey, no traffic, and a very aggressive driver, the airports of Newcastle or Blackpool are two hours away, PIK or MAN are three hours away. Driving to London is six hours at best, usually eight. I’m not interested whether Carlisle has a fancy terminal. I’m not interested in whether it’s on a 146 or a 747. I just want an easier and faster way to get between Cumbria and London.
I do tend to agree with those who say it needs an established name like ryanair to launch this properly if it is to succeed.
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ElondonPax is wright - an established carrier is what is required- ryanair could possibly make it work. their blk-stn route is a success but i suspect only beacuse they offer a daily service (2xdaily in the week) with competative fares and agressive marketing.
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does anyone know the surrounding catchment of Carlisle? If anyone is going to make an attempt at Luton-Carlise it MUST be a LCC or it will be running at 25% load factors charging £300 return.
I imagine EUJet are thinking about it.
hehehehehe
I imagine EUJet are thinking about it.
hehehehehe
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Speaking as someone who knows Carlisle Airport well from recent experience, there are a number of problems with this proposal for ANY scheduled flights.
1. The PCN of the runway is classified as less than 10!
2. The fire cover available is going to drop as the fire crew are leaving in numbers due to the poor pay and conditions and the way staff are treated by the airport owner.
3. There have been 6 airport managers in the last six years! Mainly good, experienced, competent people who have had no support from the owners, who have left or have been sacked for doing their job.
4. ATC staffing is falling. 3 controllers have left, or are due to leave/retire, in very recent times.
There are a number of other points as well, but until the airport owner decides that he wants an airport, and to run it properly, nothing lasting willl fly from there. The locals think that the owner wants to rezone the land as soon as possible for industrial purposes and sell it off!! The local Council do not want this to happen, bur they may be forced into it, or have to take over the airport again!
1. The PCN of the runway is classified as less than 10!
2. The fire cover available is going to drop as the fire crew are leaving in numbers due to the poor pay and conditions and the way staff are treated by the airport owner.
3. There have been 6 airport managers in the last six years! Mainly good, experienced, competent people who have had no support from the owners, who have left or have been sacked for doing their job.
4. ATC staffing is falling. 3 controllers have left, or are due to leave/retire, in very recent times.
There are a number of other points as well, but until the airport owner decides that he wants an airport, and to run it properly, nothing lasting willl fly from there. The locals think that the owner wants to rezone the land as soon as possible for industrial purposes and sell it off!! The local Council do not want this to happen, bur they may be forced into it, or have to take over the airport again!
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A friend of mine used to work in the Nestle factory down in that neck of the woods and said it was a pure pain trying to get to London for meetings at the head office. Don't know if Nestle are still there but I can see a market for a london service. As it is the regional airports seem to be doing really well at the moment, I think people are fed up with driving for hours to get to LHR and MAN. Look at Darlington and Kent. But I suppose they got bigger catchment areas.
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Smith what do you mean look at Darlington and Kent? Darlington is a town with in a county and Kent is a county, you can't compare the two. On top of that the centre of Darlington is about 5 miles to Durham Tees Valley (Teesside in old money). So there is already a service to both LHR and AMS for people to interline on. On top of that Darlington has a good train service into Kings Cross.
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Having Lived up in that neck of the woods for a number of years, can tell you what a pain it is trying to get down south. Especially when returning to Uni.
Traffic jams, not to mention trying to get through manchester at more than 40 mph!.
Be a great idea, but don't think its going to work. Plane's too expensive to run, prices will be too high and don't think there is that much demand for it.
personal example.
Im flying ryanair to PIK from Charleroi on 26th, then having to rent a car to drive back down to Carlisle.
Total price.
40 Euros Return to Charleroi from Lux
30 Euros Parking
150 Euros Return.Flight tickets
250 Euros Car hire 4 days
480 Euros total to get over and back for 4 days.
Would work if I could get a flight to luton from hahn or charleroi for 40 euros, then fly up to Carlisle! (still cheaper than the ferry) and should work out about 250 quid, depending on flight prices?
Traffic jams, not to mention trying to get through manchester at more than 40 mph!.
Be a great idea, but don't think its going to work. Plane's too expensive to run, prices will be too high and don't think there is that much demand for it.
personal example.
Im flying ryanair to PIK from Charleroi on 26th, then having to rent a car to drive back down to Carlisle.
Total price.
40 Euros Return to Charleroi from Lux
30 Euros Parking
150 Euros Return.Flight tickets
250 Euros Car hire 4 days
480 Euros total to get over and back for 4 days.
Would work if I could get a flight to luton from hahn or charleroi for 40 euros, then fly up to Carlisle! (still cheaper than the ferry) and should work out about 250 quid, depending on flight prices?