New routes for Bristols new extension
.Brunel to Concorde
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terrier
As BRS is jointly owned by the Australian Macquarie Airports Group and the Spanish Ferrovial Aeropuertos company (part of Grupo Ferrovial), do you know which of these companies has bid for EXT, or is it a joint bid?
When Macquarie Bank and Cintra (another subsidiary of Grupo Ferrovial) tendered for BRS they did so through a joint company called Tidefast Limited. Presumably it is possible they might make a similar bid to acquire EXT.
Macquarie also part owns airports at Birmingham, Brussels, Rome and Sydney, and AFAIK only at Sydney is Ferrovial involved, albeit with a minority part of the ownership.
Do the local authorities intend to retain part ownership of EXT?
Devonair,
EXT is certainly doing well with Flybe but I doubt that it has the catchment area to truly rival BRS in term of pax numbers and routes. EXT has a lot of catching up with BRS heading towards 5 million pax this coming year.
I shall watch the Flybe Paris route from EXT with great interest because BACx charges fairly expensively on its route from BRS to CDG, at least compared to low cost airlines. We keep hearing rumours that easyJet will start to serve Paris Orly from BRS but I'm not sure about the slot situation at the French end.
As BRS is jointly owned by the Australian Macquarie Airports Group and the Spanish Ferrovial Aeropuertos company (part of Grupo Ferrovial), do you know which of these companies has bid for EXT, or is it a joint bid?
When Macquarie Bank and Cintra (another subsidiary of Grupo Ferrovial) tendered for BRS they did so through a joint company called Tidefast Limited. Presumably it is possible they might make a similar bid to acquire EXT.
Macquarie also part owns airports at Birmingham, Brussels, Rome and Sydney, and AFAIK only at Sydney is Ferrovial involved, albeit with a minority part of the ownership.
Do the local authorities intend to retain part ownership of EXT?
Devonair,
EXT is certainly doing well with Flybe but I doubt that it has the catchment area to truly rival BRS in term of pax numbers and routes. EXT has a lot of catching up with BRS heading towards 5 million pax this coming year.
I shall watch the Flybe Paris route from EXT with great interest because BACx charges fairly expensively on its route from BRS to CDG, at least compared to low cost airlines. We keep hearing rumours that easyJet will start to serve Paris Orly from BRS but I'm not sure about the slot situation at the French end.
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MerchantVenturer - I Believe Devon County Council will maintain a 20% stake in the airport. The remaining 80% going private.
Terrier21 - I would never suggest EXT would surpass BRS in terms of being the main airport for the SW region. I do feel however that EXT's catchment has been underestimated by a number of airlines. Devon and Cornwall's population totals 1.5 million. In recent years the city has also attracted a large number of companies from the South East; the Met Office and French energy giant EDF (amongst others). The business community were hugely supportive of FlyBE's CDG announcement. I would also say certain routes, such as CDG (as you said) and BES will attract people from Somerset and Dorset. I feel what has happened the past year has been a catch up situation, and I feel that the airport's pax figures are more in line with what it should be. Looking forward to more announcements in 2005 and hopefully a new scheduled airline arriving on the scene. I know VLM were looking a while back (AMS).
What are your views on the SWRDA setting up route development funds to attract airlines (as there are in NI and Scotland). I think it is something that needs to happen.
Terrier21 - I would never suggest EXT would surpass BRS in terms of being the main airport for the SW region. I do feel however that EXT's catchment has been underestimated by a number of airlines. Devon and Cornwall's population totals 1.5 million. In recent years the city has also attracted a large number of companies from the South East; the Met Office and French energy giant EDF (amongst others). The business community were hugely supportive of FlyBE's CDG announcement. I would also say certain routes, such as CDG (as you said) and BES will attract people from Somerset and Dorset. I feel what has happened the past year has been a catch up situation, and I feel that the airport's pax figures are more in line with what it should be. Looking forward to more announcements in 2005 and hopefully a new scheduled airline arriving on the scene. I know VLM were looking a while back (AMS).
What are your views on the SWRDA setting up route development funds to attract airlines (as there are in NI and Scotland). I think it is something that needs to happen.
Brunel to Concorde
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Devonair,
Thanks for info re local authority and EXT.
Now that Scotland and Northern Ireland have led the way (and I believe the Welsh Assembly is starting the ball rolling there) it must surely be inequitable if English regions don’t follow suit. Incidentally, I believe the Eastern ABZ-BRS route operates with a RDF subsidy from Scotland.
From a personal point of view, I am not sure that I agree with public money being used in this way, although I understand the economic arguments. I think that private companies, which airlines and airports are after all, should operate on a commercial basis with minimal public financial assistance. However, now the floodgates have been opened in parts of the UK, we must all try to join in or risk falling behind.
There will always be allegations of favouritism of parts of a region over others. There is already the perception in the Bristol area that the SWRDA favours the far southwest generally over the remainder of the region. Basing itself in Exeter (which I am told styles itself ‘regional capital’ – is that true?) doesn’t help to allay these suspicions.
Were it based in Bristol I am sure there would be similar allegations from Devon and Cornwall.
There was talk that Flybe approached the SWRDA for support on the Exeter-Paris route. I don’t know if this is true and, if it is, whether any support was forthcoming, however marginal. But you can imagine the reaction of BACx and BRS if Flybe and EXT did get support for their CDG route for example and the former airline and airport didn’t on their route to the French capital.
I do agree that EXT was under served and it is now starting to build a decent route structure. I am sure there is more to come. I know people from Bristol who use EXT, whether because of more competitive fares, better flight timings, route not flown from BRS (such as YYZ) or simply that they just prefer it as an airport. I expect the reverse sometimes happens with people who live around Exeter. BRS and CWL are similarly used by people from both those areas.
All this is good news for the air traveller from/to the southwest of Britain because there is more choice, and it is growing.
Thanks for info re local authority and EXT.
Now that Scotland and Northern Ireland have led the way (and I believe the Welsh Assembly is starting the ball rolling there) it must surely be inequitable if English regions don’t follow suit. Incidentally, I believe the Eastern ABZ-BRS route operates with a RDF subsidy from Scotland.
From a personal point of view, I am not sure that I agree with public money being used in this way, although I understand the economic arguments. I think that private companies, which airlines and airports are after all, should operate on a commercial basis with minimal public financial assistance. However, now the floodgates have been opened in parts of the UK, we must all try to join in or risk falling behind.
There will always be allegations of favouritism of parts of a region over others. There is already the perception in the Bristol area that the SWRDA favours the far southwest generally over the remainder of the region. Basing itself in Exeter (which I am told styles itself ‘regional capital’ – is that true?) doesn’t help to allay these suspicions.
Were it based in Bristol I am sure there would be similar allegations from Devon and Cornwall.
There was talk that Flybe approached the SWRDA for support on the Exeter-Paris route. I don’t know if this is true and, if it is, whether any support was forthcoming, however marginal. But you can imagine the reaction of BACx and BRS if Flybe and EXT did get support for their CDG route for example and the former airline and airport didn’t on their route to the French capital.
I do agree that EXT was under served and it is now starting to build a decent route structure. I am sure there is more to come. I know people from Bristol who use EXT, whether because of more competitive fares, better flight timings, route not flown from BRS (such as YYZ) or simply that they just prefer it as an airport. I expect the reverse sometimes happens with people who live around Exeter. BRS and CWL are similarly used by people from both those areas.
All this is good news for the air traveller from/to the southwest of Britain because there is more choice, and it is growing.
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Exeter does style itself as "regional" capital but only in the SW Peninsular term for region (Devon & Cornwall and Exmoor). There is much talk down here that the SW region is too Swindon/Bristol orientated. You can see why the Cornish aren't excatly thrilled by the idea of being run by people in Bristol when Bristol is closer to Manchester than it is to Penzance (I digress!). I assume many SWRDA initiatives are geared more towards Devon and Cornwall as they are the most economically disadvantaged. I assume with route developments certain routes from say Newquay would be given priority over the same route from Bristol because of obvious economic reasons. Like you said we have to compete with the other areas of the UK. I believe the North of England RDA's are about to instigate route development funds for airports such as Blackpool and Carlisle.
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A Bristolian yep can confirm your rumour regarding BRS TCX to PMI next year a flight with cruise pax I believe. Pretty sure the crews enjoy it. The flight deck were all BRS based so they should do 
MV and Devonair. Thanks for the info about EXT as it is my next port of call so its great to hear about lots of things going on down there. The staff that I have met seem to be very very friendly. Devonair, what times is EXT at its busiest and when is it so quiet. Im just trying to work out shift systems in my head.
Anyway good thread keep it going folks.
SJD
MV and Devonair. Thanks for the info about EXT as it is my next port of call so its great to hear about lots of things going on down there. The staff that I have met seem to be very very friendly. Devonair, what times is EXT at its busiest and when is it so quiet. Im just trying to work out shift systems in my head.
Anyway good thread keep it going folks.
SJD
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Sorry to bring this up yet again...but is there any update as to when the TBPB/BGI flight is operating out of EGGD this year? I heard it was due to be in February sometime, but Ive heard no more, and the Bristol Airport website is about as helpful as a chocolate fireguard. If someone could give me a date or some kind of info Id be grateful.
Dan.
Dan.
Brunel to Concorde
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Devonair
You are right about the southwest government region. It is a bit of a dog's dinner. I heard John Prescott on telly at the time of the northeast referendum talking about how a regional government might work in the southwest. He accepted there would be major difficulties because (as he put it), "Devon dislikes Cornwall, Cornwall dislikes Devon and they both hate Bristol."
I think a Cornish MP once described Bristol as a suburb of Birmingham. In truth, with the high tech industries etc stretching along the M4, it is more like an outer suburb of London.
I suppose Exeter gets things like the SWRDA and Southwest Tourism HQs based there because the city is reckoned to be geographically central to the government region, although Taunton probably has a better claim in this regard. If the same criteria dictated the Welsh capital it would be at Newtown or Welshpool.
Back to air matters, the important thing is for the region as a whole to be able to be reached easily from the rest of the country and from Europe, and if RDFs have to play a part, so be it, because although I'm not keen on them we cannot be disadvantaged down here if the rest of the country follows that route.
I note your opinion re BOH being more south of England than southwest, and anyone other than the government would agree with this. However, and I'm sure you are aware, Bournemouth and Poole are actually in the government's southwest region (and thus the responsibility of SWRDA), although Southampton is not. Therefore BOH would presumably have to be considered for any SWRDA route funding.
BTW, EXT arrivals have now joined BRS and CWL arrivals on page 452 of Ceefax. Can't be a bad thing because it will show a wider audience the flights available from there.
You are right about the southwest government region. It is a bit of a dog's dinner. I heard John Prescott on telly at the time of the northeast referendum talking about how a regional government might work in the southwest. He accepted there would be major difficulties because (as he put it), "Devon dislikes Cornwall, Cornwall dislikes Devon and they both hate Bristol."
I think a Cornish MP once described Bristol as a suburb of Birmingham. In truth, with the high tech industries etc stretching along the M4, it is more like an outer suburb of London.
I suppose Exeter gets things like the SWRDA and Southwest Tourism HQs based there because the city is reckoned to be geographically central to the government region, although Taunton probably has a better claim in this regard. If the same criteria dictated the Welsh capital it would be at Newtown or Welshpool.
Back to air matters, the important thing is for the region as a whole to be able to be reached easily from the rest of the country and from Europe, and if RDFs have to play a part, so be it, because although I'm not keen on them we cannot be disadvantaged down here if the rest of the country follows that route.
I note your opinion re BOH being more south of England than southwest, and anyone other than the government would agree with this. However, and I'm sure you are aware, Bournemouth and Poole are actually in the government's southwest region (and thus the responsibility of SWRDA), although Southampton is not. Therefore BOH would presumably have to be considered for any SWRDA route funding.
BTW, EXT arrivals have now joined BRS and CWL arrivals on page 452 of Ceefax. Can't be a bad thing because it will show a wider audience the flights available from there.
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SJD: In response to your question re:
Devonair, what times is EXT at its busiest and when is it so quiet. Im just trying to work out shift systems in my head.
The first scheduled flight out and back in the morning and evening is to Jersey/Guernsey. The Majority of FlyBE other services occur between 10 and 4. Exeter Airport's website (and Ceefax 452) now shows live arrivals and departures so if you log on tomorrow morning you should get a good idea of when its busiest. If you do look at it tomorrow or Saturday you'll see quite a few to Manchester (FA Cup 3rd Round Man Utd V Exeter City!)From the end of March this will change as Paris comes on stream and Edinburgh becomes twice daily. The first Paris flight leaves at 06:30 I believe and the second EDI flight will land at 22:20.
Devonair, what times is EXT at its busiest and when is it so quiet. Im just trying to work out shift systems in my head.
The first scheduled flight out and back in the morning and evening is to Jersey/Guernsey. The Majority of FlyBE other services occur between 10 and 4. Exeter Airport's website (and Ceefax 452) now shows live arrivals and departures so if you log on tomorrow morning you should get a good idea of when its busiest. If you do look at it tomorrow or Saturday you'll see quite a few to Manchester (FA Cup 3rd Round Man Utd V Exeter City!)From the end of March this will change as Paris comes on stream and Edinburgh becomes twice daily. The first Paris flight leaves at 06:30 I believe and the second EDI flight will land at 22:20.
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ATCO...having a play in my system the 757 can get off Rwy 09 with all pax and bags as long as temp stays relatively low. Tried at 10c and it is fine then tried it at 25c and things go a little awry - probably have to offload about 20-30 pax
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25C in Bristol??? U must be kidding, thats like an all time high!!!
When i first heard about Bristol winning this contract I was somewhat surprised. I like others thought the main issue would be the length of the runway. However, with the success at Bristol, I can fully understand why Continental would prefer to base their operation at Bristol as against Cardiff.
I fully agree that COA would have looked into the statistics and whether they could make it out with a full load; however, maybe they are cleverer than we all give credit for.
Is it possible they could be covering themselves and wondering about the need to open a split route if pax figures don't quite make it profitable? They could use needing fuel as a basis for a tech stop and eventually it creeps in as a split load. Maybe not Bristol - Cardiff split, they may be too close together for that - It has been done in the past But not transat (stand to be corrected!!) Maybe split with Glasgow?
TIO
When i first heard about Bristol winning this contract I was somewhat surprised. I like others thought the main issue would be the length of the runway. However, with the success at Bristol, I can fully understand why Continental would prefer to base their operation at Bristol as against Cardiff.
I fully agree that COA would have looked into the statistics and whether they could make it out with a full load; however, maybe they are cleverer than we all give credit for.
Is it possible they could be covering themselves and wondering about the need to open a split route if pax figures don't quite make it profitable? They could use needing fuel as a basis for a tech stop and eventually it creeps in as a split load. Maybe not Bristol - Cardiff split, they may be too close together for that - It has been done in the past But not transat (stand to be corrected!!) Maybe split with Glasgow?
TIO
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ATCO1987
I believe it is on the 3 february. The website is currently being redeveloped so that is the reason it hasnt been updated for a while should be unveile in the next couple of weeks.
MV
Not sure who has put in the bid or if anyone definatly has just a rumour.
TIO
I think shannon would be the ideal destination if it did ever become a split load (hope it doesn't) with no service there yet you could sell BRS/SNN seats as well I guess.
T21
I believe it is on the 3 february. The website is currently being redeveloped so that is the reason it hasnt been updated for a while should be unveile in the next couple of weeks.
MV
Not sure who has put in the bid or if anyone definatly has just a rumour.
TIO
I think shannon would be the ideal destination if it did ever become a split load (hope it doesn't) with no service there yet you could sell BRS/SNN seats as well I guess.
T21
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I started a thread a few days ago asking if anyone had any news or rumours on how bookings were going on the CO BRS-EWR. No-one came forward with any positive news or rumours one way or the other.
We now have people in this thread talking about the possibility of split loads. I hope this is mere conjecture with no basis.
It will be a major disappointment and I think a big surprise, or perhaps shock is a better word, to the BRS management if this route is not successful, without the commercial need to split it.
A/c capabilities are something else of course but if 'a bristolian' is the person I think he is I am quite certain he knows what he is talking about, and I accept his assertion that the equipment to be used will cope with BRS's limited take-off conditions.
We now have people in this thread talking about the possibility of split loads. I hope this is mere conjecture with no basis.
It will be a major disappointment and I think a big surprise, or perhaps shock is a better word, to the BRS management if this route is not successful, without the commercial need to split it.
A/c capabilities are something else of course but if 'a bristolian' is the person I think he is I am quite certain he knows what he is talking about, and I accept his assertion that the equipment to be used will cope with BRS's limited take-off conditions.
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It is conjecture on my part,
However, choose some dates in the summer and look on the continentl website. I did and the chepeast seat I could get was over £600. I think i'll go and pay the car parking at heathrow and fly from there for less than £250.00.
How can it get close with this kind of price gap.
TIO
P.s. - The £250.00 figure was a BA flight.
However, choose some dates in the summer and look on the continentl website. I did and the chepeast seat I could get was over £600. I think i'll go and pay the car parking at heathrow and fly from there for less than £250.00.
How can it get close with this kind of price gap.
TIO
P.s. - The £250.00 figure was a BA flight.
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Turn it off
You are of course quite correct there is a major deifference in pricing at the momen. What we have to remember is that this is a new route and if I were CO I would whack my prices up high to start with to see if there are any takers. The prices are dropping and, I'm sure, will continue to drop.
T21
You are of course quite correct there is a major deifference in pricing at the momen. What we have to remember is that this is a new route and if I were CO I would whack my prices up high to start with to see if there are any takers. The prices are dropping and, I'm sure, will continue to drop.
T21
Brunel to Concorde
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When the CO BRS-EWR route was first announced there were some complaints in the local Bristol press and local radio message boards about the high prices. I checked the Continental booking site then with random dates and the prices did seem high - anything from the equivalent of £500-900.
However for each set of random dates I chose then I also checked the established CO route from BHX to EWR and I found then that the prices from BHX were identical to those from BRS on the same dates.
I have just repeated the exercise with almost the same result. I put in random dates and periods in each of June, July and August.Prices from BRS ranged from1162.85 USD to 1763.85 USD. BHX fares were the same for one of these periods, eleven dollars cheaper for another and 86 dollars dearer for the third.
I then tried a couple of random dates from BHX for January and February (the BRS route does not start until May) and found return flights for 440.85 USD and 469.85 USD. I also remember finding BHX fares of around 500 USD for last September when I checked a couple of weeks beforehand.
Given that winter fares are often cheaper the moral still seems to be - wait as late as you can before booking.
However for each set of random dates I chose then I also checked the established CO route from BHX to EWR and I found then that the prices from BHX were identical to those from BRS on the same dates.
I have just repeated the exercise with almost the same result. I put in random dates and periods in each of June, July and August.Prices from BRS ranged from1162.85 USD to 1763.85 USD. BHX fares were the same for one of these periods, eleven dollars cheaper for another and 86 dollars dearer for the third.
I then tried a couple of random dates from BHX for January and February (the BRS route does not start until May) and found return flights for 440.85 USD and 469.85 USD. I also remember finding BHX fares of around 500 USD for last September when I checked a couple of weeks beforehand.
Given that winter fares are often cheaper the moral still seems to be - wait as late as you can before booking.
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Press release around the end of this month concerning BA and BRS and the routes for the 5th 145 to be based there. BRS is turning out to be a good little money earner and easy are no competition. Would be surprised if we do anything domestic with it though?