VOLARE in trouble?
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Towerman:
That´s why it does not collapse! At least not until they have secured all their assets in Alitalia ´parte due.´
If you want to see the future of Italian aviation, look at Switzerland! Errr, or is it the other way around?
God help the Lessors and Banks if Alitalia were to collapse...
If you want to see the future of Italian aviation, look at Switzerland! Errr, or is it the other way around?
Join Date: Nov 2004
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At this time sounds like VLE has 15 A320s available for use, as soon as the "commissario" renegotiates the leasing contracts. But the A/Cs are there. As far as we know, these 15 haven't been taken back.
As for hopping outta here: it's an option. But right now 200 VLE pilots probably sent CVs around like me. The CV traffic is somewhat jammed, at this time. We really have to wait til flights start again. Then we'll be able to see which pilots will remain in VLE, how many will go away etc.
As for hopping outta here: it's an option. But right now 200 VLE pilots probably sent CVs around like me. The CV traffic is somewhat jammed, at this time. We really have to wait til flights start again. Then we'll be able to see which pilots will remain in VLE, how many will go away etc.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Robert Vesco:
you are 100% right, 200% if you add ...airports 
(a reasonable estimate of money due by Volare to airports is anything between 80 and 100 mio euros)
In my opinion there are two questions to be answered:
Therefore, I believe that in this mess and unpleasant situation to be in, the best solution is to let Volare (and some other airline as well ) go bust, and let others players to step in.
Lartington is 100% right as well:
Gufo:
There is no way a "commissario" (an extraordinary commissioner) put in charge of the airline by the government can turnaround the company if the business rule number one "businesses that lose money go bust!" is not fully understood. Of course Volare could be placed under extraordinary administration to protect it from creditors and allow the company to resume flights, but a quite different thing will be to make it a profitable airline (have a look to the new Swiss
). There is ony one winner in this case: the extraordinary commissioner and his team! 
That´s why it does not collapse!
(a reasonable estimate of money due by Volare to airports is anything between 80 and 100 mio euros)
In my opinion there are two questions to be answered:
- how can a company in a such bad financial shape start flying again ?
- is the market available to the "new Volare" (if and when it will ever fly) ?
Therefore, I believe that in this mess and unpleasant situation to be in, the best solution is to let Volare (and some other airline as well
) go bust, and let others players to step in.Lartington is 100% right as well:
get the hell out asap as soon as there is no pay cheque at the end of the month
There is no way a "commissario" (an extraordinary commissioner) put in charge of the airline by the government can turnaround the company if the business rule number one "businesses that lose money go bust!" is not fully understood. Of course Volare could be placed under extraordinary administration to protect it from creditors and allow the company to resume flights, but a quite different thing will be to make it a profitable airline (have a look to the new Swiss
). There is ony one winner in this case: the extraordinary commissioner and his team!
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The world is weird, man. Being an administrator is not my job: I won't start doing that now. So stating everybody's destiny that way sounds quite pointless to me.
I will only point out one thing: the VLE case is far away from the Alitalia affair. As far as I know, we were not exactly losing money with the business, the money was TAKEN AWAY. That's the difference; that's why, hopefully, there are some chances we can resume the business. Of course things are not this simple, otherwise, iceman51, you'd be Lufthansa's CEO. No offence intended. I only mean that our vision is too limited to say we're sure about these issues.
Nevertheless I'll wait and see, playing lots of tennis in the meantime
I will only point out one thing: the VLE case is far away from the Alitalia affair. As far as I know, we were not exactly losing money with the business, the money was TAKEN AWAY. That's the difference; that's why, hopefully, there are some chances we can resume the business. Of course things are not this simple, otherwise, iceman51, you'd be Lufthansa's CEO. No offence intended. I only mean that our vision is too limited to say we're sure about these issues.
Nevertheless I'll wait and see, playing lots of tennis in the meantime
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Not only are Volare in debt to the airports but there is the small question of 16 millionEuros owed to Eurocontrol.
The aircraft are as far as I am aware all still in Italy despite Lessor attempts to fly them out .........
The aircraft are as far as I am aware all still in Italy despite Lessor attempts to fly them out .........
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To run an airline is one of the more demanding and difficult job (this is why I am not LH's CEO 
), but as in any business the "weather radar" should be always working. Big storms never come by surprise, and today there are so many instruments available to check if your colleague next door or the top management are doing their jobs as required.
Money might have been stolen in Volare, and possibly it was (I have no evidence in this respect, the prosecutors are investigating), but in any event the business model of Volare was not working as it was supposed to do. No more, no less as in (too) many other airlines, actually more pax were flown, more red ink was poured. Furthermore, Volare wanted to be "a one size fits all airline". You cannot be a LCC, a long haul scheduled, and a charter carrier at the same time, even with different companies operating each separately. There is no business case in this respect worldwide. Why it should have worked in Italy?
I believe that Volare's management and the banks involved started a vicious circle and tried to keep it flying creating further losses and problems. The stupidity of the lessors and of the airports is very well known and helped a lot as well. Eurocontrol accountig is in practice not existant (otherwise the 16mio euro debt of Volare should be zero ). Not to mention the unions, where were these boys, possibly ...nowhere.
One should have been totally deaf not to have been suspicious. Rumuors were around since years by now
, payments were in arrears since ever, the debt was already rescheduled at least once, and even after that ...not repaid. This information, news, etc. were and are available to everybody (it was not like the case in the Parmalat affair). Actually, in the Volare and Alitalia affairs it was enough to read the daily press.
So, what future for Volare? Grounded for ever, I hope, and the 1,400 jobs working and the 5+mio pax and flying with other airlines.
A final, sour question: who is gonna to pay Volare' debt, fees, taxes, etc. vis-a- vis airports, handling agents, Eurocontrol, etc.? Possibly the other airlines by paying increased fees, charges, rates, etc. Actually, in this respect, considered that it is now standard for a pilot to come up with a bond if he/she wants to fly for the airline xxx or yyy, why airlines should not come up with a bond to cover three months of Eurocontrol's average fees? And, furthermore, if even only one month goes in arrears, they should be banned immediately from the sky until they have paid the outstanding debt (it might be that traffic problems on the ground and in the air will soon disappear
)
), but as in any business the "weather radar" should be always working. Big storms never come by surprise, and today there are so many instruments available to check if your colleague next door or the top management are doing their jobs as required.Money might have been stolen in Volare, and possibly it was (I have no evidence in this respect, the prosecutors are investigating), but in any event the business model of Volare was not working as it was supposed to do. No more, no less as in (too) many other airlines, actually more pax were flown, more red ink was poured. Furthermore, Volare wanted to be "a one size fits all airline". You cannot be a LCC, a long haul scheduled, and a charter carrier at the same time, even with different companies operating each separately. There is no business case in this respect worldwide. Why it should have worked in Italy?
I believe that Volare's management and the banks involved started a vicious circle and tried to keep it flying creating further losses and problems. The stupidity of the lessors and of the airports is very well known
and helped a lot as well. Eurocontrol accountig is in practice not existant (otherwise the 16mio euro debt of Volare should be zero ). Not to mention the unions, where were these boys, possibly ...nowhere.One should have been totally deaf not to have been suspicious. Rumuors were around since years by now
, payments were in arrears since ever, the debt was already rescheduled at least once, and even after that ...not repaid. This information, news, etc. were and are available to everybody (it was not like the case in the Parmalat affair). Actually, in the Volare and Alitalia affairs it was enough to read the daily press.So, what future for Volare? Grounded for ever, I hope, and the 1,400 jobs working and the 5+mio pax and flying with other airlines.
A final, sour question: who is gonna to pay Volare' debt, fees, taxes, etc. vis-a- vis airports, handling agents, Eurocontrol, etc.? Possibly the other airlines by paying increased fees, charges, rates, etc. Actually, in this respect, considered that it is now standard for a pilot to come up with a bond if he/she wants to fly for the airline xxx or yyy, why airlines should not come up with a bond to cover three months of Eurocontrol's average fees? And, furthermore, if even only one month goes in arrears, they should be banned immediately from the sky until they have paid the outstanding debt (it might be that traffic problems on the ground and in the air will soon disappear
)
