bmi / Virgin again???
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Scroggs
Because I have a life outside of aviation, I have limited time to construct what I would consider to be a reasoned speculative piece on a proposed bmi/virgin get together.
However, reading your post leads me to believe that any speculation by myself or others is a waste of time. Would I be correct in my asumption that your real name is Dicky B.......?
The reason I ask, is that your contention that- "synergy' appeals to those inexpert observers who see Virgin's...." could only come from one with an incredible indepth knowledge of Virgins masterplan. Or are you just speculating like everyone else, in which case your piece is just that, speculation, albeit with a touch of arrogance thrown in?
Because I have a life outside of aviation, I have limited time to construct what I would consider to be a reasoned speculative piece on a proposed bmi/virgin get together.
However, reading your post leads me to believe that any speculation by myself or others is a waste of time. Would I be correct in my asumption that your real name is Dicky B.......?
The reason I ask, is that your contention that- "synergy' appeals to those inexpert observers who see Virgin's...." could only come from one with an incredible indepth knowledge of Virgins masterplan. Or are you just speculating like everyone else, in which case your piece is just that, speculation, albeit with a touch of arrogance thrown in?
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What you say scroggs could be correct but nobody has a clue really except the people at the top of both companies. Also, whatever the outcome we will just have to go with the flow because bmi hold all the cards. They're the ones with the slots remember. The business leaders will dictate. Not the pilots.
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Yes, you're both absolutely right! I have to admit to being a mere speculator, the same as most other observers. However, my speculation is from within, so to speak, though I have no inside track to those who make the decisions. Perhaps it would be more accurate to compare my speculation to the city pages of the broadsheet newspapers?
However, I don't - at this stage - have any reason to retract anything I have already said.
However, I don't - at this stage - have any reason to retract anything I have already said.
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If there was something going on between bmi and Virgin, I doubt very much that anyone would want to jump ship just yet and sacrifice carrying over any kind of seniority, but then again, what do I know.
If its not a silly question, how many more can depart before there is a serious problem with crewing levels?
.........there is little evidence of action of any kind from BMI to either improve its chances of survival, or to prepare itself for sale!
(and still losing money fast.......or is that just an accounting ploy to divert money to certain bank accounts?)
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Scroggs, you have made some very interesting points. But equally relevant is that the entire BMI group is amost joint owned between SMB (and his associates) and a consortium of SAS and Lufthansa. SMB and his associates own just one more share than SAS/LH. What possible interest would those airlines have in effectively selling LHR slots to VS?
My own assessment is that it is most unlikely that they would agree to any such thing particularly as BMI has gone through a substantial integration with Star Alliance, which includes systems integration, LH suppport for systems used by BMI, code sharing with numerous Star partners, including on MAN to the USA.
Branson has said that acquiring another business, as he did with what became VEX is always much more difficult than developing your own.
I am certain that VS want more LHR slots but there are other ways of getting them than buying bmi. Particularly as in order to preserve those slots bmi wouldd have to go on operating on a large scale at LHR for many years before VS could possible use them.
My own assessment is that it is most unlikely that they would agree to any such thing particularly as BMI has gone through a substantial integration with Star Alliance, which includes systems integration, LH suppport for systems used by BMI, code sharing with numerous Star partners, including on MAN to the USA.
Branson has said that acquiring another business, as he did with what became VEX is always much more difficult than developing your own.
I am certain that VS want more LHR slots but there are other ways of getting them than buying bmi. Particularly as in order to preserve those slots bmi wouldd have to go on operating on a large scale at LHR for many years before VS could possible use them.
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Now that is spectacularly speculative specimen of speculation and would be a spectre that would leave me speechless.
inevitably lead to mass redundancies
Give examples where mass redundancies have'nt occured.
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Please forgive me but do long haul aircraft not need more crews than a shorthaul!About (10 compared to 5)!!
So if some slots where stripped down from bmi routes after a merge/takeover then forgive my basic maths skills but that would actually means they really need more pilots!!!!
So VS would have to think about recruiting,wouldnt they!!!
oh, just like they are doing at the minute!
And the rate notices are being handed in at bmi,ill let you bright boys work that one out for yourselves!!!
Im off to have a long think about this one to keep up with all the V/S hotshots with all the inside info.
Rgds K.I.L.
P.S. theres room for everyone
So if some slots where stripped down from bmi routes after a merge/takeover then forgive my basic maths skills but that would actually means they really need more pilots!!!!
So VS would have to think about recruiting,wouldnt they!!!
oh, just like they are doing at the minute!
And the rate notices are being handed in at bmi,ill let you bright boys work that one out for yourselves!!!
Im off to have a long think about this one to keep up with all the V/S hotshots with all the inside info.
Rgds K.I.L.
P.S. theres room for everyone
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I am certain that VS want more LHR slots but there are other ways of getting them than buying bmi. Particularly as in order to preserve those slots bmi would have to go on operating on a large scale at LHR for many years before VS could possible use them.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating a takeover of BMI by Virgin. I personally think it would be disastrous for much of BMI, but I am speculating that it is only along the lines I mentioned in my first post that Virgin would consider any significant financial involvement with BMI. The financial risks of any other format are probably too great - and Virgin is not in this business to lose money. It will be interesting to see what actually transpires...
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bmi have been on a cost-cutting excerise for as long as I can remember now.
They've recently announced redundancies in the Reservations Centre by outsourcing the whole lot to India, no-one (apart from staff travel so they can do SMB's personal bookings of course) spared in the cull. From what I hear they are all in consultation at the moment but due to be laid off by next spring.
But then again, would they need a reservations centre if there was a Virgin take-over? I think not
They've recently announced redundancies in the Reservations Centre by outsourcing the whole lot to India, no-one (apart from staff travel so they can do SMB's personal bookings of course) spared in the cull. From what I hear they are all in consultation at the moment but due to be laid off by next spring.
But then again, would they need a reservations centre if there was a Virgin take-over? I think not
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Give examples where mass redundancies have'nt occured.
ACBUS1 - Caledonian/Flying Colours/Airworld springs to mind without looking back too far.
Hey ho! You carry on based upon your assumptions.
I'll sit and watch the carnage after the takeover .......sorry, "merger".
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Isn't it the case that Virgin and Singapore are moving terminals at Manchester, to T1, in order to join BMI. I have herad that the BD Caribbean and Las Vegas services are to carry VS flight nos. similar tot eh way that the SQ Manchester servie already does.
Also, I heard a rumour that Virgin are to commandeer some some accommodation at Manchester Airport in order to create a Clubhouse for their Upper Deck passengers.
Also, I heard a rumour that Virgin are to commandeer some some accommodation at Manchester Airport in order to create a Clubhouse for their Upper Deck passengers.
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Isn't it more true to say that BMI's main asset is its slots and this would make it attractive to potential mergers/takeover?
Surely that is one reason why LH/SAS got involved in the first place. Are there others who may be interested in getting more slots?
There is a finite time that BMI can lose money before the management cash in it's assets. Baby is being seperated more & more each month ( own AOC,soon own crewing, option 3 ending ). It does look like something is going to happen to the group!
Surely that is one reason why LH/SAS got involved in the first place. Are there others who may be interested in getting more slots?
There is a finite time that BMI can lose money before the management cash in it's assets. Baby is being seperated more & more each month ( own AOC,soon own crewing, option 3 ending ). It does look like something is going to happen to the group!
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I do not know exactly how many slots bmi have at LHR but it looks to me as if they have 25 Airbus aircraft based there. This is likely to give rise to around 75 departures per day. The last published slot sale deal at LHR involved Qantas which bought slots from Flybe and paid £24 million for two daily arrivals/departures. It is interesting to do the maths of this on bmi. The figure is 75 multiplied by £12 million. On that basis bmi would be worth £900 million.
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Can I point out that a seniority number at bmi counts for absolutely nothing, other than for the purpose of 'last in, first out'.
Next, an FO at bmi (or Capt!) has the decision to make, and soon:
Would you rather have a bmi seniority number, high up as it may be, and await the merger/takeover/collapse of bmi and hope to be offered the A340........
or....
Jump!! Go to BA/VS, asap and get some bums behind you (for LIFO purposes) and be on the Longhaul aircraft when the bunfight begins?
Quite honestly, bmi management seems ambivalent to either course of action from it's pilots. Leadership? Management? Hmmm!
Discuss.....!!
(ps my applications to both are simmering in the pile..!!)
Next, an FO at bmi (or Capt!) has the decision to make, and soon:
Would you rather have a bmi seniority number, high up as it may be, and await the merger/takeover/collapse of bmi and hope to be offered the A340........
or....
Jump!! Go to BA/VS, asap and get some bums behind you (for LIFO purposes) and be on the Longhaul aircraft when the bunfight begins?
Quite honestly, bmi management seems ambivalent to either course of action from it's pilots. Leadership? Management? Hmmm!
Discuss.....!!
(ps my applications to both are simmering in the pile..!!)
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Does anyone have any views about the effect of the recent board changes at bmi on any possible deal with Virgin? Reading all of the postings on this site it seems that bmi people are very frustrated but their company seems to be valuable even if it has lost a lot of money. Whay do people seem to assume that Virgin is the stronger company? It, too, has lost a lot of money over the years.
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It appears to me that the main reason AR left the board at bmi was due to the fact that he probably didn't want to hang around for the company to be sold off or shut down. Lets think about this for a moment, he wouldn't have had a seat at the VS boardroom table for long would he? He was due for retirement next year anyway.
On the subject of bmi slots, don't forget that the company has many unused slots at LHR and even some rare night slots. They have had them for many, many years and have held on to them keenly. I would easily think the slots alone must be worth close to a billion.
As for the India announcement, what is that all about? There has to be something more to operating those routes out of LHR, something that VS would probably want to do themselves. And the rumour is now that BD want to operate the A340 on the route? Wonder if these could be repainted from a current shiny silver livery by any chance?
On the subject of bmi slots, don't forget that the company has many unused slots at LHR and even some rare night slots. They have had them for many, many years and have held on to them keenly. I would easily think the slots alone must be worth close to a billion.
As for the India announcement, what is that all about? There has to be something more to operating those routes out of LHR, something that VS would probably want to do themselves. And the rumour is now that BD want to operate the A340 on the route? Wonder if these could be repainted from a current shiny silver livery by any chance?