BA Bank Holiday Chaos
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They wind the firm up on a Tuesday and then rise it phoneix like from the ashes on a Wednesday. Everything contracted out on the ground to competing firms. New hires recruited on a single union no-strike contract only in essential areas of operations such as cabin crew and flightdeck and engineering
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Aug 27th.. great, thanks BA and the unions for stuffing up Mrs PG and my one break of the year, fully paid for £1k+ a piece WT+ tickets to ORD as a weekend treat for the guvnor putting up with me being away for large lumps of the year.
Many, many, years travel always flying BA, company class downgrades, so most recent travel has been in the back of the bus, still though I continue to favour BA. I've been Gold for a good few years, got the occassional opug, nice thanks, but I do have some say in this relationship.
I booked a trip to FRA today.. bmi/LH, normally no question BA every time, stuff it, I have a choice, you stuffed up my holiday, I hope Mr Street and the union slimebags lose their jobs as other punters like me take my $'s and my companies $'s elsewhere.
Am I bitter, yes I am. We work b'hard for these breaks, I spend a lot of time on long haul planes and I expect the airline I trust to carry me when I want, especially when I have paid in full 12+ weeks in advance, you have let me down and you will never see me on one of your aircraft again..
Many, many, years travel always flying BA, company class downgrades, so most recent travel has been in the back of the bus, still though I continue to favour BA. I've been Gold for a good few years, got the occassional opug, nice thanks, but I do have some say in this relationship.
I booked a trip to FRA today.. bmi/LH, normally no question BA every time, stuff it, I have a choice, you stuffed up my holiday, I hope Mr Street and the union slimebags lose their jobs as other punters like me take my $'s and my companies $'s elsewhere.
Am I bitter, yes I am. We work b'hard for these breaks, I spend a lot of time on long haul planes and I expect the airline I trust to carry me when I want, especially when I have paid in full 12+ weeks in advance, you have let me down and you will never see me on one of your aircraft again..
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phreegreens
Having made a similar point at the bottom of page 2 of this thread, it seems that nobody cares whether the customer flies or not. They all seem too concerned that their little empires stand. Well, they won't when the company for which they work goes to the wall and they will all, whether management or not, doubtless be bleating about their lack of employment and/or prospects.
Too say that they care that the customer is inconvenienced is inconsequential drivel. The bottom line is that we wish to fly when the ticket we buy in good faith says we fly. the 'poor me' cry means nothing to we who pay OUR hard earned cash for what is advertised.
Personally. I dislike the idea that BA might go to the wall. I like their product, but I have had enough of being a pawn in the game being played by union and management.
I might say that I, as a customer, hate the idea that I will henceforth have to suffer the service(!) handed out by the so-called low cost operators. Where will it all end?
Me, I'm taking my car and family by sea.
oscar
Having made a similar point at the bottom of page 2 of this thread, it seems that nobody cares whether the customer flies or not. They all seem too concerned that their little empires stand. Well, they won't when the company for which they work goes to the wall and they will all, whether management or not, doubtless be bleating about their lack of employment and/or prospects.
Too say that they care that the customer is inconvenienced is inconsequential drivel. The bottom line is that we wish to fly when the ticket we buy in good faith says we fly. the 'poor me' cry means nothing to we who pay OUR hard earned cash for what is advertised.
Personally. I dislike the idea that BA might go to the wall. I like their product, but I have had enough of being a pawn in the game being played by union and management.
I might say that I, as a customer, hate the idea that I will henceforth have to suffer the service(!) handed out by the so-called low cost operators. Where will it all end?
Me, I'm taking my car and family by sea.
oscar
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To those who are customers of BA and are, quite rightly, very annoyed at any industrial action that might upset their travel plans I do apologise.
But I have yet to hear anybody come up with a real alternative to industrial action if the company doesn't want to negotiate - if you are suggesting that employees of BA should accept whatever the company wishes to offer and be greatful then I'm sorry but it doesn't work like that in any other industry and it's not going to happen in BA.
But I have yet to hear anybody come up with a real alternative to industrial action if the company doesn't want to negotiate - if you are suggesting that employees of BA should accept whatever the company wishes to offer and be greatful then I'm sorry but it doesn't work like that in any other industry and it's not going to happen in BA.
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real alternative
These never seem to be options, for some reason.
I'm sure that there'll be many, many more like phreegreens who, sick of BA telling them to f-off will be happy to take their hard earned cash elsewhere.
How long before BA does decide "lets outsource check-in and baggage handling?" Wouldn't like to be around when that gets announced.
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eal401
Many do both those things - but for those that have many years invested in the company they are prepared to stay and fight their corner.
I really cannot see why you think that BA are some special case - they are no different to any other company in any other industry.
In every walk of life there is industrial strife, if everyone took your 'advice' the whole workforce in the country would be changing jobs every year - bonkers. Perhaps you feel that the Eurostar employees should all quit, as should the United employees, what about the Siemens staff or the BBC people.
Face facts - employees are quite within their rights to withdraw their labour - if that causes irreprable damage to their particular company then they have nobody to blame but themselves and the management of that company - what outsiders think is pretty irrelevant.
Get a better paid job at another company? Career change?
I really cannot see why you think that BA are some special case - they are no different to any other company in any other industry.
In every walk of life there is industrial strife, if everyone took your 'advice' the whole workforce in the country would be changing jobs every year - bonkers. Perhaps you feel that the Eurostar employees should all quit, as should the United employees, what about the Siemens staff or the BBC people.
Face facts - employees are quite within their rights to withdraw their labour - if that causes irreprable damage to their particular company then they have nobody to blame but themselves and the management of that company - what outsiders think is pretty irrelevant.
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Well, since we are having a strike anyway, lets take this opportunity to outsource check in and baggage handling now.
Put the jobs out to tender (hopefully already done), accept a weeks no flying and another for training and disruption and Bob's your proverbial.
Then the rest of us living in the real world can get on with our lives while those who didn't pay attention at school can get on with pattie flipping.
Put the jobs out to tender (hopefully already done), accept a weeks no flying and another for training and disruption and Bob's your proverbial.
Then the rest of us living in the real world can get on with our lives while those who didn't pay attention at school can get on with pattie flipping.
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Jet II
Unfortunately, your posts seem to neatly encapsulate the problem that some of we customers face.
From what I read here, the BA terms, whilst offering comparitively low wages, I admit, are better than other employers for comparitive jobs. In particular, your concessionary travel and pension arrangements seem to be better than those enjoyed by other check-in staff. Perhaps this means that the rate for the job has already been reached. If that isn't enough for your needs, eal401 has a point and you should really consider a career change.
Thank you for your apology regarding my financial loss. Regrettably, it means nothing to me or mine and I refer you back to the point I made about inconsequential drivel in my previous post.
On the one hand, you say that "you will stay and fight your corner" and on the other, you seem to care little if you help cause "irrepairable damage" to your company. Strange indeed.
I am just so sorry that attitudes like yours pervade so many industries and that the brinkmanship being displayed by both sides is having the effect that it is. Double Entry has a valid point even if it is probably impractical as things stand.
Unfortunately, your posts seem to neatly encapsulate the problem that some of we customers face.
From what I read here, the BA terms, whilst offering comparitively low wages, I admit, are better than other employers for comparitive jobs. In particular, your concessionary travel and pension arrangements seem to be better than those enjoyed by other check-in staff. Perhaps this means that the rate for the job has already been reached. If that isn't enough for your needs, eal401 has a point and you should really consider a career change.
Thank you for your apology regarding my financial loss. Regrettably, it means nothing to me or mine and I refer you back to the point I made about inconsequential drivel in my previous post.
On the one hand, you say that "you will stay and fight your corner" and on the other, you seem to care little if you help cause "irrepairable damage" to your company. Strange indeed.
I am just so sorry that attitudes like yours pervade so many industries and that the brinkmanship being displayed by both sides is having the effect that it is. Double Entry has a valid point even if it is probably impractical as things stand.
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Many do both those things - but for those that have many years invested in the company they are prepared to stay and fight their corner.
I really cannot see why you think that BA are some special case - they are no different to any other company in any other industry.
In every walk of life there is industrial strife, if everyone took your 'advice' the whole workforce in the country would be changing jobs every year - bonkers.
what outsiders think is pretty irrelevant.
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oscarh
Any evidence for this? - I spent 2 minutes yesterday searching for adverts for check-in staff at LHR the first ad I found offered a starting salary of 12K for 35 hour week - better than BA rates.
For my particular Job, I asked the question of a Board member as to why we couldn't be benchmarked against comparable employers - answer, BA couldn't afford it.
Concessionary travel - BA staff travel is recognised as the worst in the business, even assuming you could get on.
I care about the business, I wish the mangement would care just as much - but, like the BA pilot who said on another thread "I and many of my compatriots will happily send the company to the wall as we will have nothing left to lose. Just watch us." - you can only push members of staff so far before they push back.
I tend to agree with much of what you say - industrial strife is endemic within British Industry, but theres an old saying - management gets the unions it desrerves - if theres an answer then I cannot see one.
Oh and I see that Skippy is so interested in solving the dispute he has refused to meet the unions
From what I read here, the BA terms, whilst offering comparitively low wages, I admit, are better than other employers for comparitive jobs.
For my particular Job, I asked the question of a Board member as to why we couldn't be benchmarked against comparable employers - answer, BA couldn't afford it.
Concessionary travel - BA staff travel is recognised as the worst in the business, even assuming you could get on.
On the one hand, you say that "you will stay and fight your corner" and on the other, you seem to care little if you help cause "irrepairable damage" to your company. Strange indeed.
I am just so sorry that attitudes like yours pervade so many industries and that the brinkmanship being displayed by both sides is having the effect that it is.
Oh and I see that Skippy is so interested in solving the dispute he has refused to meet the unions
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I guess I was away during the great Tesco/McDonalds/Kwik Fit/Holiday Inn/Sainsburys/Brewers Fayre/Asda/Barclays, etc, etc, strikes!!
If you're all so pi$$ed of because some people choose to exercise their right within the law to withold labour (whether you agree with it or not is none of your business) why don't you go and get on BAs back instead of carping on to people on this board who have no say about things?
I don't here many of you whining about the threatened pilots strike at bmi, what's the diff?
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Double Entry
Changed your tune from the other year when you were winging about the Flt Crew pay offer - I didn't notice you then telling your colleagues to p**s off if they didn't like the offer on the table
I hope your a bit more professional when at work
Jet II
So apply for the job - good luck and good riddance.
So apply for the job - good luck and good riddance.
I hope your a bit more professional when at work
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I don't here many of you whining about the threatened pilots strike at bmi, what's the diff?
What a stupid thing to say...
If I believe my job is bad or I'm badly paid, I exercise my right to seek employment elsewhere, I don't feel the need to make people suffer from legalised blackmail.
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No mention of the United strike, BMI, Eurostar, the list goes on.
Whilst I don't agree with a strike they cause irrepairable damage and the money you lose as staff you can never get back so basically your going to need about a 1% pay rise to recover your personal losses as a result of the strike, but it is an employees right to withdraw their labour if other means have failed.
I feel that the writing is on the wall for the ground staff and BA generally with this kind of action.
Those in the ground staff who are striking who don't think outsourcing is possible need to look again. The company would never have to consider another pay claim with you. Every couple of years the deal goes out to tender and the company sees the ground handling competition fighting for the work. BA would win all ways. Also with electronic ticketing and automated check-in the number of ground staff required is reduced. There's no sick leave associated with a computer.
Also the company needs to get it's act together and start treating it's employees witha bit of respect the corresponding effect on morale will pass along the line to customers, honest.
Start banging heads together at BAA. Their increases in landing fees and other charges seems to be at odds with the rest of the industry which seems to spend it's whole life trying to cut operating costs to compete and yet staff and passengers still have to work and travel in filthy, poorly maintained and inefficient conditions. Forget about T5 and all that stuff they need to tidy up and make pleasant T1,2,3,4.
Finally, by all means strike but take care for your futures.
Whilst I don't agree with a strike they cause irrepairable damage and the money you lose as staff you can never get back so basically your going to need about a 1% pay rise to recover your personal losses as a result of the strike, but it is an employees right to withdraw their labour if other means have failed.
I feel that the writing is on the wall for the ground staff and BA generally with this kind of action.
Those in the ground staff who are striking who don't think outsourcing is possible need to look again. The company would never have to consider another pay claim with you. Every couple of years the deal goes out to tender and the company sees the ground handling competition fighting for the work. BA would win all ways. Also with electronic ticketing and automated check-in the number of ground staff required is reduced. There's no sick leave associated with a computer.
Also the company needs to get it's act together and start treating it's employees witha bit of respect the corresponding effect on morale will pass along the line to customers, honest.
Start banging heads together at BAA. Their increases in landing fees and other charges seems to be at odds with the rest of the industry which seems to spend it's whole life trying to cut operating costs to compete and yet staff and passengers still have to work and travel in filthy, poorly maintained and inefficient conditions. Forget about T5 and all that stuff they need to tidy up and make pleasant T1,2,3,4.
Finally, by all means strike but take care for your futures.
I travel on business, and international meetings happen whether you're there or not. This means the inconvenience is just as bad for me as for the holidaymaker, with the possible difference that at least I can sit an the Exec club lounge for hours. But if check in staff work a 37.5 hour week for £10k a year, my math works that out as being 14% above minimum hourly wage. It can't be a totally unskilled job, it has some very antisocial hours (is there any extra allowance for that?) and although I'm going to be badly inconvenienced, I really can't blame them.
Strangely, I work for an international company where it isn't unknown for a manager to be paid less than the engineer who works for him. Might be a good thing if that attitude appeared in BA!
Strangely, I work for an international company where it isn't unknown for a manager to be paid less than the engineer who works for him. Might be a good thing if that attitude appeared in BA!
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Strangely, I work for an international company where it isn't unknown for a manager to be paid less than the engineer who works for him. Might be a good thing if that attitude appeared in BA!
Wurzel's Brother
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Whilst not condoning strike action by anyone there are two important points which often seem to be conveniently forgotten.
The first is that strike action should only ever be used as the last resort - what other avenue is left open to employees (of any company) who are neither listened to or negotiated with no matter how hard they try? Fighting back is often the only way!
The second relates to the 'stock response' to the last point which is the oft quoted "Well if they don't like it they should off and get another job".
That is a really great idea when there are so many jobs around that one can pick and choose - for many it is not an option. Jobs do not grow on trees (despite common belief!) and if additional factors like location, transport and housing are taken into account then it becomes even harder to 'flit' from job to job to keep increasing the money. Believe it or not many people actually LIKE their job and don't want to leave - they want decent recognition.
What if they did all leave - would there not be howls of anguish if there were no check-in staff or baggage staff? The 24 hour disruption would become a bit of a longer term problem! How about if all the Fire Officers had resigned as suggested by Two Jags when they felt they deserved more pay.
Within PPrune there is a large amount of discontentent about their employers from flight crew? Does the same principle also apply there - they don't have to work for their employer (one in particular!!) and they could always move on. Of course the real world doesn't allow that to happen - why should it also apply to those less skilled than flight crew?
Bernie
PS - I don't work for any airline and have no ax to grind either way....neither do I necessarily agree with indivuals striking!
The first is that strike action should only ever be used as the last resort - what other avenue is left open to employees (of any company) who are neither listened to or negotiated with no matter how hard they try? Fighting back is often the only way!
The second relates to the 'stock response' to the last point which is the oft quoted "Well if they don't like it they should
off and get another job".That is a really great idea when there are so many jobs around that one can pick and choose - for many it is not an option. Jobs do not grow on trees (despite common belief!) and if additional factors like location, transport and housing are taken into account then it becomes even harder to 'flit' from job to job to keep increasing the money. Believe it or not many people actually LIKE their job and don't want to leave - they want decent recognition.
What if they did all leave - would there not be howls of anguish if there were no check-in staff or baggage staff? The 24 hour disruption would become a bit of a longer term problem! How about if all the Fire Officers had resigned as suggested by Two Jags when they felt they deserved more pay.
Within PPrune there is a large amount of discontentent about their employers from flight crew? Does the same principle also apply there - they don't have to work for their employer (one in particular!!) and they could always move on. Of course the real world doesn't allow that to happen - why should it also apply to those less skilled than flight crew?
Bernie
PS - I don't work for any airline and have no ax to grind either way....neither do I necessarily agree with indivuals striking!
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On a slightly more serious note than my last post if I may...
Although the basic for check in staff is quite low, when all payments are taken into account, then the actual package is more like £20,000 than the headline £11k or £12k being bandied about. Additionally there is a final salary pension scheme and a staff travel scheme that members of other airlines would dearly love. Then there are generous maternity allowances, death in service benefits, free car parking, dry cleaning allowances, canteens, part time working opportunities and and and. On top of that you are now being offered an incentive just to turn up to work of £1,000 (which is unaffected by you taking the usual sick days off per year).
I mean what do you want? Blood?!
(Edited for spelling, JetII you might also like to get your dictionary out)
Although the basic for check in staff is quite low, when all payments are taken into account, then the actual package is more like £20,000 than the headline £11k or £12k being bandied about. Additionally there is a final salary pension scheme and a staff travel scheme that members of other airlines would dearly love. Then there are generous maternity allowances, death in service benefits, free car parking, dry cleaning allowances, canteens, part time working opportunities and and and. On top of that you are now being offered an incentive just to turn up to work of £1,000 (which is unaffected by you taking the usual sick days off per year).
I mean what do you want? Blood?!
(Edited for spelling, JetII you might also like to get your dictionary out)