Flybe question
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Prob 30 - No, I've not done it in the sim. Presumably because I won't be going there again now they've stopped it from JER. I hope it does all work out fine, because it should be a good sight to watch it going in. But having spoken to numerous crew, not one seems happy to take the 400 into LCY. Especially because should it start going in in November, it wil be during bad weather periods, and they won't have had chance to get used to it in 'nice' weather.
I used to use the direct Flybe LCY-BHD service but it was unusual to get more than about a dozen fellow passengers, which was surprising but must make VLM have little interest.
The -400 operator a couple of years ago was Lufthansa commuter operator Augsburg Airways, to Munich. That also didn't seem to get good enough loads and has been replaced by a smaller operation with a Dornier.
Regarding the trials done at Woodford, does anyone use the facilities at Gloucestershire nowadays (runway markings of LCY dimensions and PAPIs set to the LCY angle), which I believed were specially provided for LCY training.
The -400 operator a couple of years ago was Lufthansa commuter operator Augsburg Airways, to Munich. That also didn't seem to get good enough loads and has been replaced by a smaller operation with a Dornier.
Regarding the trials done at Woodford, does anyone use the facilities at Gloucestershire nowadays (runway markings of LCY dimensions and PAPIs set to the LCY angle), which I believed were specially provided for LCY training.
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As a 400 F/O I have my reservations about flying the a/c into city.
Ignoring the business side of things and purely thinking about the flying I think it could be a bit iffy. I can see the frequency of go arounds being unacceptably high and also there's a possibility of tail strikes if the a/c should be allowed to get slow on short final coupled with an over zealous flare (maybe due to wind gradient effect).
The a/c Isn't that speed stable on the approach and the power levers are very sensitive in the low range which can cause the pilot grief when making power adjustments close to the ground.
Also the 400 needs to be landed with power on which can lead to a rather prolonged float if you misjudge the flare (not good on a short runway).
From a passenger comfort point of view its not great either, as any 400 pilot will tell you a smooth landing is a bit of a black art mainly due to the design of the gear, (a pogo stick with a wheel on one end is a good enough description). So if you combine short runway, stiff undercarriage, high rate of descent, pilot having a bad day, poor wether, it dosn't look too good to me.
I can see plenty of heavy landing checks being carried out if it goes ahead.
Ignoring the business side of things and purely thinking about the flying I think it could be a bit iffy. I can see the frequency of go arounds being unacceptably high and also there's a possibility of tail strikes if the a/c should be allowed to get slow on short final coupled with an over zealous flare (maybe due to wind gradient effect).
The a/c Isn't that speed stable on the approach and the power levers are very sensitive in the low range which can cause the pilot grief when making power adjustments close to the ground.
Also the 400 needs to be landed with power on which can lead to a rather prolonged float if you misjudge the flare (not good on a short runway).
From a passenger comfort point of view its not great either, as any 400 pilot will tell you a smooth landing is a bit of a black art mainly due to the design of the gear, (a pogo stick with a wheel on one end is a good enough description). So if you combine short runway, stiff undercarriage, high rate of descent, pilot having a bad day, poor wether, it dosn't look too good to me.
I can see plenty of heavy landing checks being carried out if it goes ahead.
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While I can't say I'm the Q400's biggest fan I'd happily take it into LCY. From what I've seen in the sim and online it's a bit like the 200 Dash(!) in that it lands better from a steepish approach with a positive flare, especially compared with the power on floats that clatter in and use loads of runway.
Jam Jar - it's a myth the the 400 needs to be landed with power on - if you can't consistently get off 15 at BHX down the short runway (and with minimal use of the brakes) then I suggest you have a serious look at your flying technique.
Allmc - BHD is no problem at all - we've got performance data for runways half as long!
Jam Jar - it's a myth the the 400 needs to be landed with power on - if you can't consistently get off 15 at BHX down the short runway (and with minimal use of the brakes) then I suggest you have a serious look at your flying technique.
Allmc - BHD is no problem at all - we've got performance data for runways half as long!
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ALLMCC & Waveman
BHD is no problem with performance as far as i'm aware,
Waveman: I dont think theres too much wrong with my technique, well nothing that experience wont cure anyway.
I can make the first exit off 15 if required and also the first exit when landing at BHD.
If its a myth that the 400 needs a power on landing then why do all the line trainers teach this?? I just fly the a/c how I was taught to, if thats not correct maybe you can suggest the correct method to use to the trainers.
I could imagine the look on some of the captains faces that I fly with if I started hoofing it into flight idle on short finals I think they would be less than impressed.
P.S Do you fly the Q400? the reason I ask is because some of your posts relate to the ATR.
Cheers.
Waveman: I dont think theres too much wrong with my technique, well nothing that experience wont cure anyway.
I can make the first exit off 15 if required and also the first exit when landing at BHD.
If its a myth that the 400 needs a power on landing then why do all the line trainers teach this?? I just fly the a/c how I was taught to, if thats not correct maybe you can suggest the correct method to use to the trainers.
I could imagine the look on some of the captains faces that I fly with if I started hoofing it into flight idle on short finals I think they would be less than impressed.
P.S Do you fly the Q400? the reason I ask is because some of your posts relate to the ATR.
Cheers.
Last edited by jarjam; 18th Aug 2004 at 21:08.
