Lba - Lgw
Thread Starter
Lba - Lgw
Does anyone think there could be a future for this route again ?
In my memory, it's been operated by Air Anglia, Air UK, Capital, CityFlyer and BACX, the latter two obviously in the guise of BA.
Since BACX cleared out of LBA we haven't had the Gatwick connection. I guess the BA operators were providing mainly interline traffic to international routes from Gatwick.
I suppose that old chestnut, slots, would be the stumbling block with Gatwick. If these are still at a premium it's a question of whether an LBA connection would be viable at the expensive of a potentially more profitable route. Could the route be nurtured ?
I confess to being surprised at Jet2's decision to fly to CDG from LBA. Maybe they'd care to surprise me again with a Gatwick route, after all, they don't seem to be afraid to try, and I can't really see BMI doing it whilst they're on the LHR run.
In my memory, it's been operated by Air Anglia, Air UK, Capital, CityFlyer and BACX, the latter two obviously in the guise of BA.
Since BACX cleared out of LBA we haven't had the Gatwick connection. I guess the BA operators were providing mainly interline traffic to international routes from Gatwick.
I suppose that old chestnut, slots, would be the stumbling block with Gatwick. If these are still at a premium it's a question of whether an LBA connection would be viable at the expensive of a potentially more profitable route. Could the route be nurtured ?
I confess to being surprised at Jet2's decision to fly to CDG from LBA. Maybe they'd care to surprise me again with a Gatwick route, after all, they don't seem to be afraid to try, and I can't really see BMI doing it whilst they're on the LHR run.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe they'd care to surprise me again with a Gatwick route, after all, they don't seem to be afraid to try
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
Moderator
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Sussex, UK
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem with this route is it's a low yield and very high cost for the regionals.
The pax figures aren't great, whenever I travelled it was mostly crew on SB tickets positioning to/from work!
LGW is big money to turn an aircraft round, I was quoted a return ticket price of £300!!!! Got the good old GNER from Kings X!!!! - in short, don't think the economics add up but it was very useful when it was operating.
The pax figures aren't great, whenever I travelled it was mostly crew on SB tickets positioning to/from work!
LGW is big money to turn an aircraft round, I was quoted a return ticket price of £300!!!! Got the good old GNER from Kings X!!!! - in short, don't think the economics add up but it was very useful when it was operating.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Leeds
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Few would argue that for travel between central Leeds or York and central London, the train service is going to be hard to beat. There is room for a London City service given that some of the market from the North would find LBA easier to reach than central Leeds/York and ditto at the Southern end for access to LCY relative to Kings Cross. With the infrastructural and commercial developments that have occurred in the area around LCY since Jersey European tried the route in 2000 and considering the volumes that VLM are pushing between LCY and MAN/LPL, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a market for 4k-6k seats per month from Leeds.
Gatwick is a different kettle of fish altogether and I doubt would get much city centre to city centre business from either end. It's appeal would be that there is a big market between the two regions that isn't city centre to city centre and that (if using rail) faces a tortuous transit between main line stations across London or (by road) a trip half-way around the M25. Central Leeds to Kings Cross might be 2 hours by train, but Bradford to say Croydon is 4 hours and involves 3 changes.
An airline like Jet2 would need to attract in the region of 3,000 people per month from each end of the route. Assuming they buy a return ticket that's 12,000 seats per month (c.80% occupancy). Is that possible? Well, CitiExpress got 3,000 a month by charging a fortune and without particularly promoting it as an inter-lining service. A four-fold increase doesn't look out of reach given the uplifts that have been seen on the intra-UK routes where low-cost operators have moved in and shaken things up.
The difficulty will be getting the slots and the relative inefficiency of having to promote a single route in the South East where Jet2 are unknown.
682
Gatwick is a different kettle of fish altogether and I doubt would get much city centre to city centre business from either end. It's appeal would be that there is a big market between the two regions that isn't city centre to city centre and that (if using rail) faces a tortuous transit between main line stations across London or (by road) a trip half-way around the M25. Central Leeds to Kings Cross might be 2 hours by train, but Bradford to say Croydon is 4 hours and involves 3 changes.
An airline like Jet2 would need to attract in the region of 3,000 people per month from each end of the route. Assuming they buy a return ticket that's 12,000 seats per month (c.80% occupancy). Is that possible? Well, CitiExpress got 3,000 a month by charging a fortune and without particularly promoting it as an inter-lining service. A four-fold increase doesn't look out of reach given the uplifts that have been seen on the intra-UK routes where low-cost operators have moved in and shaken things up.
The difficulty will be getting the slots and the relative inefficiency of having to promote a single route in the South East where Jet2 are unknown.
682
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Leeds
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have spoken with many staff who work for jet2.com at leeds and they have told me that they have guaranteed slots at london gatwick- but have yet to launch the route or their ideas for this new destination, possibly expansion from their or just waiting for the summer to calm down- when the tietable decreases in size!
anyone work for jet2 or at lba?
cheers
anyone work for jet2 or at lba?
cheers
No Air Ecosse didn't do it on their own behalf BRAl, it was as a start up for Genair who flew the route with s330 and 360 a/c. Air Ecosse started it off for them with a S330, and if memory serves me a couple of very attractive cabin crew.
Thread Starter
surely not and bral,
Air Ecosse/Fairflight and Genair. Don't how I managed to forget them. Genair used a Bandeirante in about 1982 before they got together with Casair (Teesside) and the original Eastern (Humberside) to form a new improved Genair. I seem to remember they went down the pan in 1984 when their aircraft were being impounded. Thanks for the memories
.
Did Air Ecosse lease the sheds from Fairflight and use Fairflight flight numbers and callsigns ? My airband radio wasn't right good then.
682,
Good post again. I have to ask the question, where do you get your information ?????
Looks as though LCY may be on the cards with BMI
Let's hope they can make a go of it and stick with it.
Air Ecosse/Fairflight and Genair. Don't how I managed to forget them. Genair used a Bandeirante in about 1982 before they got together with Casair (Teesside) and the original Eastern (Humberside) to form a new improved Genair. I seem to remember they went down the pan in 1984 when their aircraft were being impounded. Thanks for the memories
.Did Air Ecosse lease the sheds from Fairflight and use Fairflight flight numbers and callsigns ? My airband radio wasn't right good then.
682,
Good post again. I have to ask the question, where do you get your information ?????
Looks as though LCY may be on the cards with BMI
Let's hope they can make a go of it and stick with it.
Thread Starter
ashmac,
Not for Jet2 but otherwise yes, if you catch my drift.
Aye, LBA-LGW would be a real feather in Jet2's cap but it would need some pretty heavy advertising (which they seem to excel at), especially in the southeast coz as 682 points out, Jet2 are virtually unknown down there. Maybe that's a good thing, no preconceptions and coloured judgments about locos in general.
Not for Jet2 but otherwise yes, if you catch my drift.
Aye, LBA-LGW would be a real feather in Jet2's cap but it would need some pretty heavy advertising (which they seem to excel at), especially in the southeast coz as 682 points out, Jet2 are virtually unknown down there. Maybe that's a good thing, no preconceptions and coloured judgments about locos in general.
surely not, Air Ecosse definitely operated the route in its own right for a period after Genair but before Capital. I thought I was right and dug out the old BAA timetable to check - indeed, the 1986 summer one shows a twice-daily Shorts 330 service which continued to Humberside under SM flight numbers (740-744). I seem to recall one occasion when a 330 (maybe 'TV) slid off the side of the runway at Leeds after landing one snowy day. Fire services went out, pushed it back on again and it took off for Gatwick a short while later.....
ashmac33, Jet2 did have good slots at Gatwick for the winter but has apparently given them back, because they weren't quite good enough......so no immediate prospect of this starting, unfortunately.
ashmac33, Jet2 did have good slots at Gatwick for the winter but has apparently given them back, because they weren't quite good enough......so no immediate prospect of this starting, unfortunately.
Last edited by Flightrider; 25th Jul 2004 at 15:22.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Genair operated the Leeds / Bradford - Gatwick route with EMB110 equipment, 3rd route for the airline after Liverpool to Gatwick and Liverpool to Amsterdam.
Route was proving popular to the point the, then MD was looking into operating HS.748 equipment but the merger of Cassair / Eastern / Genair scuppered the plans for the route expansion.
Genair (Mark I and II) was owned by General Relays (Crewe) Ltd.
Most profitable route for Genair (Mk II) was Humberside - Esbjerg.
A/C operated, Ex-British Steel Piper, EMB110, SD330, SD360 and a Golden Eagle (U/C collapse, Norwich I think?!)
A/C leased from Fairflite / Short Brothers and Air & General Finance - No A/C were fully paid for before the collaspe in 84, 1st Pair Of Eastern (Mk I) SD.330's were sourced from Time Air of Canada.
Pity Jet2 didnt take up the slots for the route, would make a great alternative to the railways I have to put up with twice weekly.
ChillWinston
Route was proving popular to the point the, then MD was looking into operating HS.748 equipment but the merger of Cassair / Eastern / Genair scuppered the plans for the route expansion.
Genair (Mark I and II) was owned by General Relays (Crewe) Ltd.
Most profitable route for Genair (Mk II) was Humberside - Esbjerg.
A/C operated, Ex-British Steel Piper, EMB110, SD330, SD360 and a Golden Eagle (U/C collapse, Norwich I think?!)
A/C leased from Fairflite / Short Brothers and Air & General Finance - No A/C were fully paid for before the collaspe in 84, 1st Pair Of Eastern (Mk I) SD.330's were sourced from Time Air of Canada.
Pity Jet2 didnt take up the slots for the route, would make a great alternative to the railways I have to put up with twice weekly.
ChillWinston
Thread Starter
It's good to know that Jet2 are/were at least interested in doing LGW from LBA but to an airline industry ignoramus such as I am, it beggars belief that they ceded the slots because they were good, but not good enough. I wouldn't have thought the timings would be that crucial when you consider they wouldn't be selling an interline service per se. They could at least have got a foot on the ladder and tried to improve their "good" slots once they'd become established at LGW.
Still, what do I know ! If anyone can enlighten me feel free
Still, what do I know ! If anyone can enlighten me feel free
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most of the traffic to LGW when CityFlyer & BACX did the flts were pax transfering to th States or othe intercontinental destination and a few were european destinations, if Jet2 do it that is obviousley not what is gonna happen, I'm sure Jet2 will work on that route for pax traveling to the south/east but it used to be a good transfere hub in the past, personally I'd like to see another airline operate the route offering connections, like KLM and BMI do at the mo, the ne LCY service that BMI are doing will definatley offer connections to europe through LCY so it's a good thing that a LOCO didn't get their hands on that route.
CHEERS
CHEERS
