Flybe. EXT-NCL
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EXT-NCL - disaster !
hmmmmm FlyBe announce routes nearly daily but whether or not they decided to fly them remains to be seen .
Referring to an earlier post on Pprune FlyBe's MD who was offering assistance to FR's Michael O'Leary on how to run a LoCo- what a joke ! . The only reason for the profit was made was because of the sale of the LHR slots and no other . Load factors on all FlyBe's network has annually decreased , was this meant to be a joke ? - FlyBe can hardly call itself a LoCo anyway !
I doubt very much whether the NCL route will be profitable. Despite the lack of competition in the Exeter area, the Air Wales service from PLH-NCL twice daily has been running for nearly a year now and must have a large group of loyal customers however since flying with them a number of times up north it appears that Air Wales themselves have some low load factors ( ie due to the CWL touchdown ).
I give it 6 months !
Cheers
Referring to an earlier post on Pprune FlyBe's MD who was offering assistance to FR's Michael O'Leary on how to run a LoCo- what a joke ! . The only reason for the profit was made was because of the sale of the LHR slots and no other . Load factors on all FlyBe's network has annually decreased , was this meant to be a joke ? - FlyBe can hardly call itself a LoCo anyway !
I doubt very much whether the NCL route will be profitable. Despite the lack of competition in the Exeter area, the Air Wales service from PLH-NCL twice daily has been running for nearly a year now and must have a large group of loyal customers however since flying with them a number of times up north it appears that Air Wales themselves have some low load factors ( ie due to the CWL touchdown ).
I give it 6 months !
Cheers
Wascally Welsh Wabbit
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actually fuzzbear....CWL-NCL is a very succesful route.....pax originating at CWL outnumber those originating at PLH by around 2.5:1
believe me........I know
Rabbs
believe me........I know
Rabbs
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SkyRabbit - read the message properly !
It says that due to the small numbers originating in Plymouth it makes it necessary for the stop in Cardiff .Hence loads from the South west are low and not worthy of another service from the same area .
I totally agree in what you say,Cardiff-Newcastle I believe is the most successful route of 6G .
Believe me , I know !
A little hasty in your reply - something to learn for next time !
Cheers
It says that due to the small numbers originating in Plymouth it makes it necessary for the stop in Cardiff .Hence loads from the South west are low and not worthy of another service from the same area .
I totally agree in what you say,Cardiff-Newcastle I believe is the most successful route of 6G .
Believe me , I know !
A little hasty in your reply - something to learn for next time !
Cheers
Brunel to Concorde
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According to the CAA provisional statistics the NCL-BRS-NCL easyJet route carried just over 20,000 passengers in March or, put another way, an average of just under 650 pax per day.
It seems amazing that PLH- NCL (even with an intermediate stop at CWL) is not more popular, because the land journey between Plymouth and Newcastle is worse that that between Bristol and Newcastle, and that is bad enough.
Perhaps with a direct flight to NCL from EXT there might be more of a market.
It seems amazing that PLH- NCL (even with an intermediate stop at CWL) is not more popular, because the land journey between Plymouth and Newcastle is worse that that between Bristol and Newcastle, and that is bad enough.
Perhaps with a direct flight to NCL from EXT there might be more of a market.
Wascally Welsh Wabbit
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Fuzzbear....the PLH departure was never intended to be a direct service to NCL....the short runway would greatly restrict offered loads (especially in the temperatures we are currently experiencing) and I'm not sure that the demand would be there.
As for EXT-NCL.........the Southwest is probably adequately served on NCL routes as EZY do a number of rotations from BRS so it would be a bit of a gamble to offer the Flybe service which would have to be a min 2x daily service to gain any credibility.
The PLH to CWL continues to NCL, but also offers the opportunity to connect with LCY which a number of PLH pax use as they find LCY more convenient than the Air Southwest LGW service.
All catering and re-fuelling (way cheaper) is done at Cardiff.
cheers
rabbs
As for EXT-NCL.........the Southwest is probably adequately served on NCL routes as EZY do a number of rotations from BRS so it would be a bit of a gamble to offer the Flybe service which would have to be a min 2x daily service to gain any credibility.
The PLH to CWL continues to NCL, but also offers the opportunity to connect with LCY which a number of PLH pax use as they find LCY more convenient than the Air Southwest LGW service.
All catering and re-fuelling (way cheaper) is done at Cardiff.
cheers
rabbs
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Yield Management revision classes
Skyrabbit , flew Air Wales on a number of occasions and compared to loads that I fly , a price of 85.00 ow Plymouth-Dublin with only 10 pax on a AT42 doesn't make sense in my books ?
This may suggest the low pax loads of 2 and 3 on each sector ? Who is responsible for this mis-management ? Adrian Thompson ?
It's time Air Wales got the professionals in !
This may suggest the low pax loads of 2 and 3 on each sector ? Who is responsible for this mis-management ? Adrian Thompson ?
It's time Air Wales got the professionals in !
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I was under the impression that AWW were now also stopping in BRS on the NCL-CWL-PLH route. Pax numbers still not especially high, maybe half an a/c or less, with only the final flight out of NCL on an evening generating decent numbers. Hope those numbers are high enough to justify the route as it would be a shame to see it close.
Not convinced Exeter could generate enough traffic on its own to make it viable. After all, you can't hook a caravan up to a Q400.
Not convinced Exeter could generate enough traffic on its own to make it viable. After all, you can't hook a caravan up to a Q400.
Brunel to Concorde
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witchdoctor
Air Wales have never flown scheduled services from/to or via BRS, except for the occasional diversion or, as today, when one of their aircraft was standing in for another carrier (I presume that Air Wales ATR 42 G-KNNY, seen at Lulsgate at lunchtime today, was operating the delayed Air Southwest flight from MAN via BRS to PLH and JER. Anybody confirm? I was just driving past the airport).
I think that easyJet have got NCL-BRS-NCL tied up with three 737 rotations per day (2 at weekends) which seem to be averaging 80% loads. I read that this was the busiest route between two English provincial cities.
Air Wales have never flown scheduled services from/to or via BRS, except for the occasional diversion or, as today, when one of their aircraft was standing in for another carrier (I presume that Air Wales ATR 42 G-KNNY, seen at Lulsgate at lunchtime today, was operating the delayed Air Southwest flight from MAN via BRS to PLH and JER. Anybody confirm? I was just driving past the airport).
I think that easyJet have got NCL-BRS-NCL tied up with three 737 rotations per day (2 at weekends) which seem to be averaging 80% loads. I read that this was the busiest route between two English provincial cities.
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Come on Boys as the cliché goes lets ‘think out of the box’!
You don’t need twice a day when it’s not aimed at the business market; this I think you’ll find will be aimed at the leisure market!
Who would have thought Easy would have done so well on the Bristol? 45k with BA to well over 200k with Easy!
Up until a month ago who would have thought you could fill a 735 three times a week to Hanover from NCL; but HLX are!
Low cost totally change the rules!
This part of the country is awful to get to from Newcastle, so if Air Wales can do well with Cardiff even with Easy at BRS what’s wrong with Fly Bee and Exeter having a go?
You don’t need twice a day when it’s not aimed at the business market; this I think you’ll find will be aimed at the leisure market!
Who would have thought Easy would have done so well on the Bristol? 45k with BA to well over 200k with Easy!
Up until a month ago who would have thought you could fill a 735 three times a week to Hanover from NCL; but HLX are!
Low cost totally change the rules!
This part of the country is awful to get to from Newcastle, so if Air Wales can do well with Cardiff even with Easy at BRS what’s wrong with Fly Bee and Exeter having a go?
Wascally Welsh Wabbit
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Merchant Venturer...recent sightings of the Dragon at BRS are due to us operating for Air Southwest while they have a/c in scheduled maintenance (PLH-BRS-MAN).
Fuzzbear...I really do not understand your point (if you have one)
rabbs
Fuzzbear...I really do not understand your point (if you have one)
rabbs
Indeed gentlemen, the Flybe services from Exeter to Glasgow & Edinburgh bring people IN to the southwest. They are, therefore, not dependant on a large local travelling public. The Newcastle service will be exactly the same so a once daily leisure service will do well. Surface transport from the southwest to Scotland and the north of England is painful!
The new Scottish services seem to be doing well. I rarely see less than 65 pax getting off the Q400s. OK, not enough to fill an orange '737 - but a good start methinks.
Other Flybe routes often mentioned in the local press for 2005 from Exeter include Paris, Amsterdam and Manchester.
The new Scottish services seem to be doing well. I rarely see less than 65 pax getting off the Q400s. OK, not enough to fill an orange '737 - but a good start methinks.
Other Flybe routes often mentioned in the local press for 2005 from Exeter include Paris, Amsterdam and Manchester.
Brunel to Concorde
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EGTE
I said earlier that I thought there might be a market for EXT-NCL. However, acting as devil's advocate for a minute, if people will want to fly into the far south west, why are they not doing so in greater numbers at present to PLH via CWL?
Plymouth is a larger city than Exeter and nearer to Cornwall. And would there be a leisure market into the southwest in the winter?
I would think a daily AMS and Paris (but which airport?) would work from EXT. Not sure about MAN. Brymon/BACx could not get it to work from BRS (probably due to awful timings - one lunchtime rotation per day) but Air Southwest appears to be making a real go of it, starting the route at PLH. However, would there be a market from both PLH and EXT?
skyrabbit
Thanks for that. I guessed there was bit of south west Britain airline co-operation going on.
BTW, I like the Dragon livery. Your a/c was parked just behind a Aer Arann ATR 42 and looked far more stylish.
I said earlier that I thought there might be a market for EXT-NCL. However, acting as devil's advocate for a minute, if people will want to fly into the far south west, why are they not doing so in greater numbers at present to PLH via CWL?
Plymouth is a larger city than Exeter and nearer to Cornwall. And would there be a leisure market into the southwest in the winter?
I would think a daily AMS and Paris (but which airport?) would work from EXT. Not sure about MAN. Brymon/BACx could not get it to work from BRS (probably due to awful timings - one lunchtime rotation per day) but Air Southwest appears to be making a real go of it, starting the route at PLH. However, would there be a market from both PLH and EXT?
skyrabbit
Thanks for that. I guessed there was bit of south west Britain airline co-operation going on.
BTW, I like the Dragon livery. Your a/c was parked just behind a Aer Arann ATR 42 and looked far more stylish.
MV
You asked why I thought that the EXT-NCL BEE service would attract leisure travellers whilst the NCL-PLH AWW service does not seem to. I'd say marketing is the answer.
In Devon & Cornwall PLH is viewed more as a "businessman's airport" whilst EXT caters more for the leisure trade (mainly outbound until now). Maybe it's the business travel sector that AWW are aiming for? Flybe seem to have a marketing arrangement with some hotels in Exeter and Torquay. The TLH Leisure group in Torquay advertise on their website that you can book your Flybe ticket and hotel accomodation in one transaction. It seems to be working as the vast majority of GLA & EDI pax appear to be leisure travellers.
As for MAN...well, JEA and Eurodirect both operated the service and the sheds and Jetstreams always looked to be full. The Exeter business community has been asking for an EXT-MAN service but I'd have thought that to fill a Q400 that would also require a sizeable number of leisure travellers.
Which Paris airport? CDG offers the onward connections but I would have thought that ORY must have several vacant slots available!
You asked why I thought that the EXT-NCL BEE service would attract leisure travellers whilst the NCL-PLH AWW service does not seem to. I'd say marketing is the answer.
In Devon & Cornwall PLH is viewed more as a "businessman's airport" whilst EXT caters more for the leisure trade (mainly outbound until now). Maybe it's the business travel sector that AWW are aiming for? Flybe seem to have a marketing arrangement with some hotels in Exeter and Torquay. The TLH Leisure group in Torquay advertise on their website that you can book your Flybe ticket and hotel accomodation in one transaction. It seems to be working as the vast majority of GLA & EDI pax appear to be leisure travellers.
As for MAN...well, JEA and Eurodirect both operated the service and the sheds and Jetstreams always looked to be full. The Exeter business community has been asking for an EXT-MAN service but I'd have thought that to fill a Q400 that would also require a sizeable number of leisure travellers.
Which Paris airport? CDG offers the onward connections but I would have thought that ORY must have several vacant slots available!