Operations at "super stol" airports
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Operations at "super stol" airports
Noticed the following on an airliners net photo of lcy: "Note the white lights set in the runway at the end of the last set of runway 28 fixed distance markers - if the aircraft has not landed by these lights a go around is mandatory!"
The one time I have landed at LCY, something similar happened, apparently due to a wind change.
The only other stol airport I have used, Saba, has a runway so short it is closed to anything other than aircraft with specially trained pilots.
Just wondering as a whole, what are operations & cancellation / diversion levels like at this kind of airport. Presumably, LCY wouldn't have a business plan if it had regular delays, as it is aimed at the executive market?
Who had the original idea to build a runway on a former dock yard? Some very brave thinking. And judging by the nimby brigade who think CVT's runway isn't long enough, there must have been a lot of naysayers about LCY too?
Both of these airports seem to have so little margin for error, but afaik, neither have had any major incidents. Have there even been any close shaves?
The one time I have landed at LCY, something similar happened, apparently due to a wind change.
The only other stol airport I have used, Saba, has a runway so short it is closed to anything other than aircraft with specially trained pilots.
Just wondering as a whole, what are operations & cancellation / diversion levels like at this kind of airport. Presumably, LCY wouldn't have a business plan if it had regular delays, as it is aimed at the executive market?
Who had the original idea to build a runway on a former dock yard? Some very brave thinking. And judging by the nimby brigade who think CVT's runway isn't long enough, there must have been a lot of naysayers about LCY too?
Both of these airports seem to have so little margin for error, but afaik, neither have had any major incidents. Have there even been any close shaves?
The lights are called "touchdown markers". I only know this because an Aer Lingus crew once asked the tower over the RT as they taxied in what they were called ... !
LCY requires special pilot training too, I believe you have to have made a certain number of approaches before you can be in the LH seat, and for most operators it's a captain-only landing. When a new operator starts here they always turn up a few days beforehand and do a day of circuits, I believe with an instructor they have to get from one of the established opeartors.
Canx and diversions not too bad. Autumn fogs in the early morning hanging along the Thames (just like at the start of Dickens' "Great Expectations", which of course took place not too far from here !) can wreck the morning parade. And in stormy crosswinds there are a fair number of go-arounds which I hear powering over my house. Also trying to squeeze every movement in during the morning peak could cause go-arounds due to the long backtrack for 28 and radar releases not coming through when expected, but the new eastern holds completed this year should fix that.
Original credit goes to, of all people, the old Brymon Airways who had Dash-7s in their fleet and put one down for show not here but on Canary Wharf, even nearer to London and right where the big office tower is now. It had all been cleared for redevelopment. Just think what a difference if that had gone ahead - no Canary Wharf offices. And they could never have got 146s in there. Contractor Mowlem put up the money, LCY was built, and for years ticked along losing Mowlem money. Ironically as soon as they bit the bullet and finally sold it, traffic skyrocketed. It seems to have fallen back a bit in recent years, which I attribute to people in North-East London, for whom LCY was the most convenient airport, now being able to get easily to the much expanded services at Stansted, but the new business jet centre has made a lot of difference (some mornings up to 10 aircraft in there) and the improvements to the taxiways have increased the runway rate. LCY's problem has always been too many movements around 08.30 and 18.00 (when you got a lot of holding over Kent) and not a lot during the day. And airlines operating in from outstations do fine, but being based here never seems to work.
No one's ever gone off the runway yet, I believe. There were arrestor pits either end of the runway until recently but last year they were concreted over.
I paxed up to Edinburgh and back last week from there. The famous 60 seconds from walking down the aircraft steps to getting in a taxi is still there !
LCY requires special pilot training too, I believe you have to have made a certain number of approaches before you can be in the LH seat, and for most operators it's a captain-only landing. When a new operator starts here they always turn up a few days beforehand and do a day of circuits, I believe with an instructor they have to get from one of the established opeartors.
Canx and diversions not too bad. Autumn fogs in the early morning hanging along the Thames (just like at the start of Dickens' "Great Expectations", which of course took place not too far from here !) can wreck the morning parade. And in stormy crosswinds there are a fair number of go-arounds which I hear powering over my house. Also trying to squeeze every movement in during the morning peak could cause go-arounds due to the long backtrack for 28 and radar releases not coming through when expected, but the new eastern holds completed this year should fix that.
Original credit goes to, of all people, the old Brymon Airways who had Dash-7s in their fleet and put one down for show not here but on Canary Wharf, even nearer to London and right where the big office tower is now. It had all been cleared for redevelopment. Just think what a difference if that had gone ahead - no Canary Wharf offices. And they could never have got 146s in there. Contractor Mowlem put up the money, LCY was built, and for years ticked along losing Mowlem money. Ironically as soon as they bit the bullet and finally sold it, traffic skyrocketed. It seems to have fallen back a bit in recent years, which I attribute to people in North-East London, for whom LCY was the most convenient airport, now being able to get easily to the much expanded services at Stansted, but the new business jet centre has made a lot of difference (some mornings up to 10 aircraft in there) and the improvements to the taxiways have increased the runway rate. LCY's problem has always been too many movements around 08.30 and 18.00 (when you got a lot of holding over Kent) and not a lot during the day. And airlines operating in from outstations do fine, but being based here never seems to work.
No one's ever gone off the runway yet, I believe. There were arrestor pits either end of the runway until recently but last year they were concreted over.
I paxed up to Edinburgh and back last week from there. The famous 60 seconds from walking down the aircraft steps to getting in a taxi is still there !
Last edited by WHBM; 23rd May 2004 at 09:14.
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1508? CVT isn't much longer than that is it? I know it's shorter in one direction. So could you (in theory) land a 737 on it then, or would there be operational problems - steepness of dive being the main one?
It's the width too - or is that not really an issue? Also, would any of the Docklands be affects by PSZs? There must be a fair population under the flight paths, especially between 9 and 5. Certainly larger than the population under the CVT flight paths by a factor of about 10, but then again I assume no freight or night ops @ LCY?
It's the width too - or is that not really an issue? Also, would any of the Docklands be affects by PSZs? There must be a fair population under the flight paths, especially between 9 and 5. Certainly larger than the population under the CVT flight paths by a factor of about 10, but then again I assume no freight or night ops @ LCY?
London City is 1199 metres long, and is constrained by road bridges at both ends.
If you want to try out the 5.5 degree approach path, Gloucester airport has some training PAPIs set at this angle for you to use. I think a 737 does not have a published procedure for such an approach (although I vaguely recall that the FAA in the US tried 5 degree approaches with 727s some years ago somewhere in scheduled service looking at the impact on noise). Apparently even with a 146 if you don't come over the top of the glidepath at the right speed it's difficult to get a stabilised approach even with engines at idle.
If you want to try out the 5.5 degree approach path, Gloucester airport has some training PAPIs set at this angle for you to use. I think a 737 does not have a published procedure for such an approach (although I vaguely recall that the FAA in the US tried 5 degree approaches with 727s some years ago somewhere in scheduled service looking at the impact on noise). Apparently even with a 146 if you don't come over the top of the glidepath at the right speed it's difficult to get a stabilised approach even with engines at idle.
Last edited by WHBM; 23rd May 2004 at 09:35.
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Used to fly ambulance tasks in a BN2 onto a 500m strip on the Isle of Bute (Scotland) in the dark. This strip of grass is fully lit and has approach PAPIs set to 5 degrees so as to avoid the trees just short of the threshold! That was fun, especially on a standard Scottish winter night. We had to do initial circuits by day and then three at night with an instructor before we could go alone with the paramedic. Does that count as STOL?
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LCY runway dimensions
We operate into LCY daily....the runway is 1508x30 metres (or 4948x98 feet). Landing distance available (both ends) is 1319 metres.
AERAD Chart D1 for this airport will confirm this
Rabbs
AERAD Chart D1 for this airport will confirm this
Rabbs
