EZY shares down (merged)
Something Gorgeous in the City
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EZY open down 16% on weak outlook
Info for interested parties, easyJet have disappointed the market with a very weak outlook statement, talking of softening demand, shares currently down 16.5% at 244p.
8.30 BST - make that 25% ...
8.30 BST - make that 25% ...
Last edited by Stockpicker; 5th May 2004 at 07:31.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not surprising. All short haul airlines out of UK are making losses (especially over the winter quarter) because the market is saturated with new fast expanding carriers (like Easyjet). The market has been trashed. Ticket prices, to fill the aircraft, are quite unrealistic for long term success. With orders for hundreds of aircraft coming over the next few years, and no guarantee where the passengers will come from (other than from competitors), the overall situation for airlines won't get better.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some fair comment here about easyJet, but on the face of it the figures look ok if you cut them as follows:
The pre tax loss has been reduced by £20.8 million
Passenger numbers are up by 15.9%
Average ticket price is up by 1.6%
However, not reported clearly on the BBC page...
Easter was weak
May passenger numbers are behind forecast
Seats filled was 82% last month a drop of 3%
Capacity is growing faster than passengers
The following page from the FT has a different perspective on the results...
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentSe...=1012571727085
The pre tax loss has been reduced by £20.8 million
Passenger numbers are up by 15.9%
Average ticket price is up by 1.6%
However, not reported clearly on the BBC page...
Easter was weak
May passenger numbers are behind forecast
Seats filled was 82% last month a drop of 3%
Capacity is growing faster than passengers
The following page from the FT has a different perspective on the results...
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentSe...=1012571727085
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: MAN
Posts: 804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must say scrapping a +/-10% loyalty bonus, in favor of a +/-6% pay rise seemed pretty stupid.
Why did 75% of you vote for it then?
There will be rich pickings for the likes of BA and Virgin from the easy ranks.
Why did 75% of you vote for it then?
There will be rich pickings for the likes of BA and Virgin from the easy ranks.
Controversial, moi?
What seems to happen all too often in the airline industry is that someone comes along and declares they are going to change the shape and future of air travel.
This they do with varying success. Then they go bankrupt having carved the market up to such an extent that nobody makes any money and the airlines that are left are consequently that much poorer.
Competition certainly has shaken, and is still shaking, the established players but at the end of the day are we better or worse off?
Name 10 UK airlines that have been in business more than 10 years.
Now name those that have been and gone.
Massive overcapacity, ridiculously uneconomic fares = commercial suicide.
This they do with varying success. Then they go bankrupt having carved the market up to such an extent that nobody makes any money and the airlines that are left are consequently that much poorer.
Competition certainly has shaken, and is still shaking, the established players but at the end of the day are we better or worse off?
Name 10 UK airlines that have been in business more than 10 years.
Now name those that have been and gone.
Massive overcapacity, ridiculously uneconomic fares = commercial suicide.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Vancouver, BC.
Posts: 748
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M. Mouse
Its true that Ryanair and easyJet have indeed changed the face of European air travel, to the extent that the ridiculosuly high fares of 10 years ago and past are all but forgotten, the air traveller is without doubt, much better off than they were if that is your measure.
But even though easy are highlighting the increasingly competitive nature of the business now, they were discussing the inevitability of the current situation at least 4 years ago; they are still a highly profitable airline, along with Ryanair and are in no way at risk as you seem to suggest.
The industry needed shaken, not stirred- and it has been, and of course the financially fittest will survive.
Its true that Ryanair and easyJet have indeed changed the face of European air travel, to the extent that the ridiculosuly high fares of 10 years ago and past are all but forgotten, the air traveller is without doubt, much better off than they were if that is your measure.
But even though easy are highlighting the increasingly competitive nature of the business now, they were discussing the inevitability of the current situation at least 4 years ago; they are still a highly profitable airline, along with Ryanair and are in no way at risk as you seem to suggest.
The industry needed shaken, not stirred- and it has been, and of course the financially fittest will survive.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: in the hills
Age: 68
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would suggest that these shares may bounce a little bit in the coming days.
Today's savagery is pretty harsh, and eJ does remain a major player.
However, 450p looks a long way off....
Today's savagery is pretty harsh, and eJ does remain a major player.
However, 450p looks a long way off....
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You start of as a small player in a nice market with low overheads, offering low fares. You enjoy great success, make lots of money, and expand. You suddenly find you have expanded so much your overheads have caught up with those of your 'high fare' competitors. Subsequently you put up fares to cover your overheads as the competition lowers their fares to compete. You begin to loose market share, begin to loose money and then you go bust.
10 British Airlines that been in existence for more then 10 years:
1. British Airlines
2. Virgin Atlantic
3. British Midland
4. Monarch
5. Britannia
6. MyTravel (although formerly known as Airtours)
7. Air 2000
8. GB Airways
9. Flybe (formerly Jersey and British European)
10. Channel Express
Note - only Flybe is low cost - and they have only just gone so. Does that tell you something about low cost??????
10 British Airlines that been in existence for more then 10 years:
1. British Airlines
2. Virgin Atlantic
3. British Midland
4. Monarch
5. Britannia
6. MyTravel (although formerly known as Airtours)
7. Air 2000
8. GB Airways
9. Flybe (formerly Jersey and British European)
10. Channel Express
Note - only Flybe is low cost - and they have only just gone so. Does that tell you something about low cost??????
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
timzsta
Interesting theory and I'm sure easyJet's overheads have increased as they have expanded, but reached the level of the network carriers? Don't think so, check the CAA Airlines financial data and prove your point. Where's the evidence that they have put up fares to cover the overheads, unless you think 1.6% increase in average fare is significant.
There's going to be losers in this market, but I think easyJet will continue as Ryanair will, although perhaps with lower margins, but still on an annual basis making money. May not be what the City traders want to hear, but that's the reality of the UK/European short haul airline business in 2004.
Interesting theory and I'm sure easyJet's overheads have increased as they have expanded, but reached the level of the network carriers? Don't think so, check the CAA Airlines financial data and prove your point. Where's the evidence that they have put up fares to cover the overheads, unless you think 1.6% increase in average fare is significant.
There's going to be losers in this market, but I think easyJet will continue as Ryanair will, although perhaps with lower margins, but still on an annual basis making money. May not be what the City traders want to hear, but that's the reality of the UK/European short haul airline business in 2004.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EASY JETsharesCRASH In London City
It was only time. Just like Air Europe. Measured growth and Stability that resembles a worn out shopping trolly. Who ever thought that when O'leary made the statement that a low fares Airline would go down the pan by the year end that it would be in the colour of orange?
Which plonker that runs an airline could ever think that they could take on just about every Airline in Europe?
Somebody tell me how you can compete with BA with such masive reserves?
Tell me how you make money when your average seat price is £38.06? BMIbaby's is £78.34.
How can you run a service against a Dash 400 between Belfast and Glasgow when the flight time is less than 20 mins? An Airport in Belfast that nobody wants to use. Unless the ticket is free!
Why pay premium prices for slots at LGW when everybody is pulling out and moving to regional Airports.
Why John Lennon Airport? Most people want to depart from Manch.
Why get in silly expensive arguments with rival Airlines?
Expensive Aircraft! BA are rubbing their hands. All potential crew are trained and current!
Unrealistic wage packets for someone to fly between STN-EDI all day.
Was taking on one of United Kingdoms richest men really clever? I don't think so.
I don't want Easy to go tits up because it's best to have the largest low cost Airline here in the UK and not elsewhere. It's jobs for the boys. Lets just be sensible. There is room for all.
Which plonker that runs an airline could ever think that they could take on just about every Airline in Europe?
Somebody tell me how you can compete with BA with such masive reserves?
Tell me how you make money when your average seat price is £38.06? BMIbaby's is £78.34.
How can you run a service against a Dash 400 between Belfast and Glasgow when the flight time is less than 20 mins? An Airport in Belfast that nobody wants to use. Unless the ticket is free!
Why pay premium prices for slots at LGW when everybody is pulling out and moving to regional Airports.
Why John Lennon Airport? Most people want to depart from Manch.
Why get in silly expensive arguments with rival Airlines?
Expensive Aircraft! BA are rubbing their hands. All potential crew are trained and current!
Unrealistic wage packets for someone to fly between STN-EDI all day.
Was taking on one of United Kingdoms richest men really clever? I don't think so.
I don't want Easy to go tits up because it's best to have the largest low cost Airline here in the UK and not elsewhere. It's jobs for the boys. Lets just be sensible. There is room for all.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London
Age: 45
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hudson,
You are over simplifying the issues here. Easyjet's shares have fallen that doesn't mean that they are set to go out of business.
The biggest factor is that Ryanair and Easyjet have fallen foul to their over successes. Large profits attracted competitors into the industry and established rivals looked at ways to alter their business models to compete. Easyjet and Ryanair are large enough to gain economies of scale at their own bases, but so are BA, BMI etc.
Just look at how many low cost airlines have been attracted into the market - BMIBaby, ThomsonFly, Jet2 etc
We have seen Duo go bust, simply because they couldn't compete with their larger rivals.
The main beneficiary over such practices has been the consumer, ridiculously cheap seats which appear to be unsustainable.
The airline industry is at a stage now where it will eventually begin to reallign itself with prices that are sustainable.
It is never financially sound in the long run for companies to compete on price, the largest with the most resources can take the hit until it has driven other competitors out of the market.
Sagey
You are over simplifying the issues here. Easyjet's shares have fallen that doesn't mean that they are set to go out of business.
The biggest factor is that Ryanair and Easyjet have fallen foul to their over successes. Large profits attracted competitors into the industry and established rivals looked at ways to alter their business models to compete. Easyjet and Ryanair are large enough to gain economies of scale at their own bases, but so are BA, BMI etc.
Just look at how many low cost airlines have been attracted into the market - BMIBaby, ThomsonFly, Jet2 etc
We have seen Duo go bust, simply because they couldn't compete with their larger rivals.
The main beneficiary over such practices has been the consumer, ridiculously cheap seats which appear to be unsustainable.
The airline industry is at a stage now where it will eventually begin to reallign itself with prices that are sustainable.
It is never financially sound in the long run for companies to compete on price, the largest with the most resources can take the hit until it has driven other competitors out of the market.
Sagey
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sagey, I understand just because a share drops, it doesn't mean that a company is going out of buisness, look at BA three years ago.
What I am observing is a company with severe problems and fudermental flaws in its operating culture. As with everything in the world people and companies don't roll over, THEY FIGHT BACK and there are many people and Airlines that can do it millions of times better than Easyjet.
Easyjet have a product, it is a good product, they have introduced many people to travel but it has holes. The largest being the fact of stepping on peoples toes and putting two fingers up at them at the same time.
They need to change the ill-informed superior image to a company that earns respect from its rivals. Take BMI and Flybe. They have an understanding and it works. NO stepping on toes.
As for the share price...Anybody buying?
What I am observing is a company with severe problems and fudermental flaws in its operating culture. As with everything in the world people and companies don't roll over, THEY FIGHT BACK and there are many people and Airlines that can do it millions of times better than Easyjet.
Easyjet have a product, it is a good product, they have introduced many people to travel but it has holes. The largest being the fact of stepping on peoples toes and putting two fingers up at them at the same time.
They need to change the ill-informed superior image to a company that earns respect from its rivals. Take BMI and Flybe. They have an understanding and it works. NO stepping on toes.
As for the share price...Anybody buying?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hudson Bay, you are a bitter FlyMaybe/BMI pilot who has an axe to grind against easyJet who moved into the regions and screwed your underperfoming business model.
It was only time. Just like Air Europe. Measured growth and Stability that resembles a worn out shopping trolly. Who ever thought that when O'leary made the statement that a low fares
Airline would go down the pan by the year end that it would be in the colour of orange?
Nobody has gone bust and O Leary was talking about the likes of Duo, BMIBaby, Flybe, German Wings and Thompsonfly.
Which plonker that runs an airline could ever think that they could take on just about every Airline in Europe?
You think O Leary and Webster are plonkers? Bet I would prefer to have their bank balance rather than yours.
Somebody tell me how you can compete with BA with such masive reserves?
Massive reserves? Last I heard they were still BILLIONS in debt!
Tell me how you make money when your average seat price is £38.06? BMIbaby's is £78.34.
By having half the cost of BMIBaby which are still on target to break even next year. Unlike easyJets years of solid profit.
How can you run a service against a Dash 400 between Belfast and Glasgow when the flight time is less than 20 mins? An Airport in Belfast that nobody wants to use. Unless the ticket is free!
Yeah the City is a lovely toy airport that is convenient when open and not foggy and you don't mind about car park charges or flying turboprops that have appalling punctuality.
Why pay premium prices for slots at LGW when everybody is pulling out and moving to regional Airports.
Look Mr Thicky - easyJet moved into Gatwick post Sept 11th when suddenly slots were going begging. As such they secured a workable base at the UK's number 2 airport without having to buy a single slot. Contrast with Flybe who only make money by slowly selling off their family silver in the form of Heathrow slots to Quantas.
Why John Lennon Airport? Most people want to depart from Manch.
Uh - hello - LPL has been a money making base for EZY since the last century!
Why get in silly expensive arguments with rival Airlines?
Do you mean Ryanair? Ryan and EZY take great care not to compete with each other - its something like only 3 airport pairs where they do compete...
Expensive Aircraft! BA are rubbing their hands. All potential crew are trained and current!
What? The worlds ever cheapest A319's sold on a buy one get one free basis with free transistion costs and free crew training? And who is going to go to BA for the same money 15 yrs to command and working the roster nobody else wants at the bottom of the seniority list?
Unrealistic wage packets for someone to fly between STN-EDI all day.
Oooooh - get her?! Jealous are we?
Was taking on one of United Kingdoms richest men really clever? I don't think so.
Do you mean Sir Michael? Rich he may be but where the heck is BMI headed? Nothing much makes any money and the future is eaither oblivion or being asset stripped by Virgin? Premium European Shorthaul is DEAD - get it?
I don't want Easy to go tits up because it's best to have the largest low cost Airline here in the UK and not elsewhere. It's jobs for the boys. Lets just be sensible. There is room for all.
Oh no you don't. You can't tag that on the end of your postings and play the reasonableness card. You want easyJet to fail more than the sun to come up tomorrow.
Sorry - ain't going to happen.
BEN
edited for personal attacks. H
It was only time. Just like Air Europe. Measured growth and Stability that resembles a worn out shopping trolly. Who ever thought that when O'leary made the statement that a low fares
Airline would go down the pan by the year end that it would be in the colour of orange?
Nobody has gone bust and O Leary was talking about the likes of Duo, BMIBaby, Flybe, German Wings and Thompsonfly.
Which plonker that runs an airline could ever think that they could take on just about every Airline in Europe?
You think O Leary and Webster are plonkers? Bet I would prefer to have their bank balance rather than yours.
Somebody tell me how you can compete with BA with such masive reserves?
Massive reserves? Last I heard they were still BILLIONS in debt!
Tell me how you make money when your average seat price is £38.06? BMIbaby's is £78.34.
By having half the cost of BMIBaby which are still on target to break even next year. Unlike easyJets years of solid profit.
How can you run a service against a Dash 400 between Belfast and Glasgow when the flight time is less than 20 mins? An Airport in Belfast that nobody wants to use. Unless the ticket is free!
Yeah the City is a lovely toy airport that is convenient when open and not foggy and you don't mind about car park charges or flying turboprops that have appalling punctuality.
Why pay premium prices for slots at LGW when everybody is pulling out and moving to regional Airports.
Look Mr Thicky - easyJet moved into Gatwick post Sept 11th when suddenly slots were going begging. As such they secured a workable base at the UK's number 2 airport without having to buy a single slot. Contrast with Flybe who only make money by slowly selling off their family silver in the form of Heathrow slots to Quantas.
Why John Lennon Airport? Most people want to depart from Manch.
Uh - hello - LPL has been a money making base for EZY since the last century!
Why get in silly expensive arguments with rival Airlines?
Do you mean Ryanair? Ryan and EZY take great care not to compete with each other - its something like only 3 airport pairs where they do compete...
Expensive Aircraft! BA are rubbing their hands. All potential crew are trained and current!
What? The worlds ever cheapest A319's sold on a buy one get one free basis with free transistion costs and free crew training? And who is going to go to BA for the same money 15 yrs to command and working the roster nobody else wants at the bottom of the seniority list?
Unrealistic wage packets for someone to fly between STN-EDI all day.
Oooooh - get her?! Jealous are we?
Was taking on one of United Kingdoms richest men really clever? I don't think so.
Do you mean Sir Michael? Rich he may be but where the heck is BMI headed? Nothing much makes any money and the future is eaither oblivion or being asset stripped by Virgin? Premium European Shorthaul is DEAD - get it?
I don't want Easy to go tits up because it's best to have the largest low cost Airline here in the UK and not elsewhere. It's jobs for the boys. Lets just be sensible. There is room for all.
Oh no you don't. You can't tag that on the end of your postings and play the reasonableness card. You want easyJet to fail more than the sun to come up tomorrow.
Sorry - ain't going to happen.
BEN
edited for personal attacks. H
Last edited by Hawk; 5th May 2004 at 21:50.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
oooooooooooooooh BEN
Something touched your frail nervous system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like your caught on that rusty hook!! How about reading a comic instead of the prune? You may laugh and even wriggle free!!!
Whatever you do, only fly a kite!!
Something touched your frail nervous system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds like your caught on that rusty hook!! How about reading a comic instead of the prune? You may laugh and even wriggle free!!!
Whatever you do, only fly a kite!!
Not Manchester
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Salford
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why John Lennon Airport? Most people want to depart from Manch.
What people in the North-West really want is choice, and they most certainly have it.