Is Air Canada dead?
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Pretty sure they are referring to the resIII system and not the employee booking site. ResIII is available to most employees and gives you access to a huge amount of data. By the way if any AC employees thinks that by kicking Li out there are better offers on the way think again. It only gets uglier from here on in. You will be lucky to have a job at all, never mind benefits, pension and good wages. I have been laid off for 6 months now and have no aspirations of going back. Just move on with your life.
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Can someone confirm the following two points for me, just in case I’m being a bit thick.
1. Air Canada gives all employees access to information which could potentially bankrupt the company.
2. Air Canada routinely allows ex-employees access to this information.
1. Air Canada gives all employees access to information which could potentially bankrupt the company.
2. Air Canada routinely allows ex-employees access to this information.
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I don't think anyone is saying that the information could 'bankrupt' an airline per se. However, as with all companies, as an employee you often have access to a lot of privileged or commercially sensitive information.
The system used at many airlines internally that allows employees to list for space available leisure travel shows a lot of company confidential information, and it is bound by strict rules of conduct and confidentiality which it would appear have been breached in this instance.
At United, employees have the opportunity to check loads for any flight systemwide on any given date. The system will show aircraft type, aircraft configuration by cabin, number of revenue passengers in each cabin, and number of 'non-revs' listed in each class of service. Therefore, one can find out extremely accurately how many pax UA is booking in each class on each route on each day, and pick out trends etc. A similar system at AC would offer the same information, all of which is commercially sensitive.
It remains to be seen what the 'real' facts actually are, but if AC's claims are correct then this should be seen as a seriously bad managment decision by some of WestJets top personnel, and unethical and bad corporate practice by WestJet.
And yes, I would agree with some of the views already expressed here. If it would have been WJ making the complaint against AC doing that to them, there would have been an outpouring of sympathy to WestJet, 'the underdog' smiley touchy feely airline. But the fact that WestJet is the alleged villain here does nothing more than to make most people smile and say "WestJet - those cheeky guys, what will they think of next!" and chuckle away.
The system used at many airlines internally that allows employees to list for space available leisure travel shows a lot of company confidential information, and it is bound by strict rules of conduct and confidentiality which it would appear have been breached in this instance.
At United, employees have the opportunity to check loads for any flight systemwide on any given date. The system will show aircraft type, aircraft configuration by cabin, number of revenue passengers in each cabin, and number of 'non-revs' listed in each class of service. Therefore, one can find out extremely accurately how many pax UA is booking in each class on each route on each day, and pick out trends etc. A similar system at AC would offer the same information, all of which is commercially sensitive.
It remains to be seen what the 'real' facts actually are, but if AC's claims are correct then this should be seen as a seriously bad managment decision by some of WestJets top personnel, and unethical and bad corporate practice by WestJet.
And yes, I would agree with some of the views already expressed here. If it would have been WJ making the complaint against AC doing that to them, there would have been an outpouring of sympathy to WestJet, 'the underdog' smiley touchy feely airline. But the fact that WestJet is the alleged villain here does nothing more than to make most people smile and say "WestJet - those cheeky guys, what will they think of next!" and chuckle away.
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>>By the way if any AC employees thinks that by kicking Li out there are better offers on the way think again. It only gets uglier from here on in. You will be lucky to have a job at all, never mind benefits, pension and good wages.<<
Here come some more "white knights" with more calls for cuts as well:
_________________________________________
Apr. 9, 2004. 09:16 AM
Onex kicking tires at Air Canada
Schwartz's buyout firm talking to partners, sources say
Airline seeks another $200 million in wage, benefit cuts
RICK WESTHEAD
BUSINESS REPORTER
Canadian buyout firm Onex Corp., which has failed twice in the past five years to buy Air Canada, is weighing another offer for the cash-strapped carrier.
Days after Hong Kong financier Victor Li moved closer to scuttling his deal to invest $650 million in Air Canada and become the airline's controlling partner, Onex has held talks with two other prospective suitors and could mount a joint bid in coming weeks, said a person familiar with the matter.
A specialist in acquiring undervalued businesses, boosting revenue and selling them, Onex has been in contact with New York hedge fund Cerberus Capital Management LP and San Francisco-based Texas Pacific Group, which has a history of investing in distressed airlines, the source said.
Onex has separately approached at least one of Air Canada's unions to advise it of the company's interest, a union official said yesterday.
Separately, Air Canada met with unions yesterday in Montreal and advised them they need to make a further $200 million in wage and benefits concessions — nearly a year after the company's nine unions surrendered $1.1 billion in annual wage and benefits.
The Canadian Auto Workers union, representing about 7,000 customer service officers at Air Canada, said it isn't prepared to give up more than it has already agreed, said Sari Sairanen, president of the Canadian Auto Workers ' airline division, Local 2002.
"Our members gave last year, and we are certainly not looking to give any more concessions," Sairanen said...
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=969048863851
_____________________________________________
Cerberus wants new shot at Air Canada
U.S. fund would like 'handcuffs removed,' lawyer confirms
By JOHN PARTRIDGE
Friday, April 9, 2004 - Page B3
TORONTO -- Cerberus Capital Management LP wants at least the chance to take another run at becoming Air Canada's major shareholder now that Victor Li has apparently walked away.
The first public acknowledgment that the powerful $8-billion (U.S.), New York vulture fund may gear up for a new bid came yesterday as, separately, Air Canada union officials said the company has told them that cost savings are currently running $200-million a year less than projected.
Derrick Tay, a Toronto lawyer who acts for Cerberus said yesterday that he will talk with Air Canada's court-appointed monitor to devise a process for the removal of an injunction and a confidentiality agreement that currently preclude the fund from talking to any of the stakeholders in the insolvent airline.
"You can assume from this that our client wants the handcuffs removed," he said when asked whether Cerberus plans to re-enter the fray, after losing out in December to Mr. Li's Trinity Time Investments Ltd.
"We have been watching recent events with interest."
Mr. Tay made his remarks following an Ontario Superior Court hearing in Toronto at which Mr. Justice James Farley granted Air Canada an extension of its bankruptcy protection to May 21 from April 15...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...iness/Canadian
Here come some more "white knights" with more calls for cuts as well:
_________________________________________
Apr. 9, 2004. 09:16 AM
Onex kicking tires at Air Canada
Schwartz's buyout firm talking to partners, sources say
Airline seeks another $200 million in wage, benefit cuts
RICK WESTHEAD
BUSINESS REPORTER
Canadian buyout firm Onex Corp., which has failed twice in the past five years to buy Air Canada, is weighing another offer for the cash-strapped carrier.
Days after Hong Kong financier Victor Li moved closer to scuttling his deal to invest $650 million in Air Canada and become the airline's controlling partner, Onex has held talks with two other prospective suitors and could mount a joint bid in coming weeks, said a person familiar with the matter.
A specialist in acquiring undervalued businesses, boosting revenue and selling them, Onex has been in contact with New York hedge fund Cerberus Capital Management LP and San Francisco-based Texas Pacific Group, which has a history of investing in distressed airlines, the source said.
Onex has separately approached at least one of Air Canada's unions to advise it of the company's interest, a union official said yesterday.
Separately, Air Canada met with unions yesterday in Montreal and advised them they need to make a further $200 million in wage and benefits concessions — nearly a year after the company's nine unions surrendered $1.1 billion in annual wage and benefits.
The Canadian Auto Workers union, representing about 7,000 customer service officers at Air Canada, said it isn't prepared to give up more than it has already agreed, said Sari Sairanen, president of the Canadian Auto Workers ' airline division, Local 2002.
"Our members gave last year, and we are certainly not looking to give any more concessions," Sairanen said...
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=969048863851
_____________________________________________
Cerberus wants new shot at Air Canada
U.S. fund would like 'handcuffs removed,' lawyer confirms
By JOHN PARTRIDGE
Friday, April 9, 2004 - Page B3
TORONTO -- Cerberus Capital Management LP wants at least the chance to take another run at becoming Air Canada's major shareholder now that Victor Li has apparently walked away.
The first public acknowledgment that the powerful $8-billion (U.S.), New York vulture fund may gear up for a new bid came yesterday as, separately, Air Canada union officials said the company has told them that cost savings are currently running $200-million a year less than projected.
Derrick Tay, a Toronto lawyer who acts for Cerberus said yesterday that he will talk with Air Canada's court-appointed monitor to devise a process for the removal of an injunction and a confidentiality agreement that currently preclude the fund from talking to any of the stakeholders in the insolvent airline.
"You can assume from this that our client wants the handcuffs removed," he said when asked whether Cerberus plans to re-enter the fray, after losing out in December to Mr. Li's Trinity Time Investments Ltd.
"We have been watching recent events with interest."
Mr. Tay made his remarks following an Ontario Superior Court hearing in Toronto at which Mr. Justice James Farley granted Air Canada an extension of its bankruptcy protection to May 21 from April 15...
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quote: Here come some more "white knights" with more calls for cuts as well:
Yeb your right, I wonder if any of the world's majors are going to have deep enough pockets to ride out the onslaught of the LCC's. However I see cracks developing in the low fares approach as safety is being compromised in some instances by some LCC's. Then unionism is on the horizon so it's going to be interesting times ahead for the LCC's.
Yeb your right, I wonder if any of the world's majors are going to have deep enough pockets to ride out the onslaught of the LCC's. However I see cracks developing in the low fares approach as safety is being compromised in some instances by some LCC's. Then unionism is on the horizon so it's going to be interesting times ahead for the LCC's.
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on the way to kill themselve...
I just find out in the national post....
"Air Canada unions reject call for more concessions
Two of Air Canada's unions say they will not agree to an additional $200-million in wage and job concessions that the airline has asked for in order to succeed in its restructuring effort"
so here is the end of AC..... they 'd rather be out of jobs.... instead of a little more concessions..... don't get the pictures! do they know that they on their way to go bankrupt?
sometimes I wondering why I am part of this familly..... in fact I don't, but feel bad for the good guys!
hope they are playing cards well this time.... but they have to remember that life is not a game.... and gambling is not the best way to get a better life!
ciao!
"Air Canada unions reject call for more concessions
Two of Air Canada's unions say they will not agree to an additional $200-million in wage and job concessions that the airline has asked for in order to succeed in its restructuring effort"
so here is the end of AC..... they 'd rather be out of jobs.... instead of a little more concessions..... don't get the pictures! do they know that they on their way to go bankrupt?
sometimes I wondering why I am part of this familly..... in fact I don't, but feel bad for the good guys!
hope they are playing cards well this time.... but they have to remember that life is not a game.... and gambling is not the best way to get a better life!
ciao!
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It' s hard to compete when competitors like West Jet have labour costs that are 30 to 40% less than Air Canada's.
The unions know this and it boggles my mind that they act the way they do; as if nothing is wrong.
The balance is gone, job value is not matching with what is being paid.
For example; I just heard that on the crew bus, a baggage handler was boasting to a pilot that he made over 104,000 last year. Even after six years with the company a pilot doesn't make that kind of money. Balance...Balance..
Do I need to say any more?
The unions know this and it boggles my mind that they act the way they do; as if nothing is wrong.
The balance is gone, job value is not matching with what is being paid.
For example; I just heard that on the crew bus, a baggage handler was boasting to a pilot that he made over 104,000 last year. Even after six years with the company a pilot doesn't make that kind of money. Balance...Balance..
Do I need to say any more?
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As is the custom, the government claims that there will be no bailout this time.
But surely the world can't do without Air Canada in an election year...
_______________________________________________
BREAKING NEWS
UPDATED AT 7:24 PM EDT Tuesday, Apr. 13, 2004
Air Canada flying solo, Valeri says
By MURRAY BREWSTER
Canadian Press
Halifax — Ottawa is considering initiatives to help the country's struggling airline industry, but it will not bail out Air Canada, federal Transport Minister Tony Valeri told a Halifax business audience Tuesday.
The federal government is facing mounting pressure to intervene as the country's national air carrier struggles to restructure after almost five years of losses totalling $4-billion.
But the airline shouldn't expect a rescue package from Ottawa, Mr. Valeri told reporters after his speech.
“Parties around the table need to resolve this,” he said. “It's a private sector solution I'm looking for.”
Mr. Valeri's comments come as Air Canada and its unions remain deadlocked over the company's apparent demand for $200-million in concessions.
The unions, led by International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers — with 11,000 members at Air Canada — say they've already given $1-billion a year in concessions.
While Mr. Valeri suggested both sides need to work harder to find a solution, he signalled Ottawa might be willing to lower some fees, which industry observers say are crippling the industry.
He insisted such a move would not be aimed at helping Air Canada in particular.
“The policies I'm considering are policies that are broader in nature and would impact the air sector generally.”
The federal government's wildly unpopular air security charge — imposed after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks — is one fee Mr. Valeri said could be reduced even further.
“I can't tell you today that it will be completely eliminated, but it's something I'm committed to reviewing,” he told members of the Halifax Chamber of Commerce.
Last month's federal budget reduced the security charge by approximately $203-million a year.
Mr. Valeri hinted the rent airlines pay at airports might come down, but he said those measures need the approval of the Finance Minister.
Air Canada entered bankruptcy protection April 1, and an Ontario court recently extended the deadline for restructuring until May 21.
But surely the world can't do without Air Canada in an election year...
_______________________________________________
BREAKING NEWS
UPDATED AT 7:24 PM EDT Tuesday, Apr. 13, 2004
Air Canada flying solo, Valeri says
By MURRAY BREWSTER
Canadian Press
Halifax — Ottawa is considering initiatives to help the country's struggling airline industry, but it will not bail out Air Canada, federal Transport Minister Tony Valeri told a Halifax business audience Tuesday.
The federal government is facing mounting pressure to intervene as the country's national air carrier struggles to restructure after almost five years of losses totalling $4-billion.
But the airline shouldn't expect a rescue package from Ottawa, Mr. Valeri told reporters after his speech.
“Parties around the table need to resolve this,” he said. “It's a private sector solution I'm looking for.”
Mr. Valeri's comments come as Air Canada and its unions remain deadlocked over the company's apparent demand for $200-million in concessions.
The unions, led by International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers — with 11,000 members at Air Canada — say they've already given $1-billion a year in concessions.
While Mr. Valeri suggested both sides need to work harder to find a solution, he signalled Ottawa might be willing to lower some fees, which industry observers say are crippling the industry.
He insisted such a move would not be aimed at helping Air Canada in particular.
“The policies I'm considering are policies that are broader in nature and would impact the air sector generally.”
The federal government's wildly unpopular air security charge — imposed after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks — is one fee Mr. Valeri said could be reduced even further.
“I can't tell you today that it will be completely eliminated, but it's something I'm committed to reviewing,” he told members of the Halifax Chamber of Commerce.
Last month's federal budget reduced the security charge by approximately $203-million a year.
Mr. Valeri hinted the rent airlines pay at airports might come down, but he said those measures need the approval of the Finance Minister.
Air Canada entered bankruptcy protection April 1, and an Ontario court recently extended the deadline for restructuring until May 21.
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If the unions play hardball assuming a government bailout, they are rolling for high stakes...
__________________________________________
Air Canada liquidation offers entrepreneurial opportunities, observers say
STEVE ERWIN
Canadian Press
Wednesday, April 14, 2004
TORONTO (CP) - A liquidation of Air Canada would present an excellent opportunity for an entrepreneur to start up a new airline with a substantially lower cost base, say observers growing more pessimistic that the insolvent carrier can avoid bankruptcy.
There's plenty of speculation but no confirmation that a new investor will replace the $650-million equity investment that Hong Kong businessman Victor Li's Trinity Time Investments is pulling off the table. And the closer the airline veers towards the May 21 expiry of its bankruptcy protection, the greater the chance it will fall into receivership.
A liquidation would attract entrepreneurs who could pick over its assets and start a new business serving displaced Air Canada passengers, and operate it under a vastly improved cost structure.
"The idea of actually starting something from zero rather than repairing something . . . has a lot of attractiveness to it," said Douglas Reid, an economics professor at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont.
If speculation proves true and an offer is presented by New York restructuring fund Cerberus Capital Management, in tandem with Texas Pacific and Toronto conglomerate Onex Corp., it will be worth less than Li's proposal, say Reid and others.
Also, Cerberus would demand the same, if not more, concessions from unions, whose "intransigence," Trinity says, is forcing it to walk away.
Unless the unions back down from their refusal to negotiate changes to pension plans, creditors may decide they'll get more money back in a liquidation. Enter the entrepreneurs.
"If the worst were to happen with Air Canada, within two weeks you would hear the announcement of some entrepreneurial group that would form another airline," Reid said.
"There are probably people somewhere, now, working on start-up plans, assuming the worst for Air Canada."
A new airline wouldn't face the near $10 billion in liabilities handcuffing Air Canada. It also wouldn't have to honour existing labour contracts, allowing it to compete better against non-union, lower-cost competitor WestJet, Reid said.
"It allows you to establish a different market price for aviation labour."
... A motion to approve a new process to assess investment offers in Air Canada is tentatively scheduled to be filed in court on April 27.
Erickson predicts that even if Cerberus makes an offer, it would also require union concessions on pension plan changes and other matters. Continued union resistance could leave Air Canada where Canada 3000 was in 2001 - bankrupt before unions could agree on concessions.
"I don't believe that anybody coming to the investment altar anywhere between now and May 21 is going to ask any less of the unions than what Mr. Li has asked," Erickson said.
He also doubts that the federal government will be willing to take on billions of dollars in obligations to rescue the country's largest airline, especially given recent statements by Transport Minister Tony Valeri that the feds are looking for a private-sector solution.
"If you're a union hand thinking the federal government is not going to let Air Canada fail, and is going to step up to the plate with some money, you are confused," he said.
"This is not the 1970s and that is not going to happen."
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...2-52c16eb74b5f
__________________________________________
Air Canada liquidation offers entrepreneurial opportunities, observers say
STEVE ERWIN
Canadian Press
Wednesday, April 14, 2004
TORONTO (CP) - A liquidation of Air Canada would present an excellent opportunity for an entrepreneur to start up a new airline with a substantially lower cost base, say observers growing more pessimistic that the insolvent carrier can avoid bankruptcy.
There's plenty of speculation but no confirmation that a new investor will replace the $650-million equity investment that Hong Kong businessman Victor Li's Trinity Time Investments is pulling off the table. And the closer the airline veers towards the May 21 expiry of its bankruptcy protection, the greater the chance it will fall into receivership.
A liquidation would attract entrepreneurs who could pick over its assets and start a new business serving displaced Air Canada passengers, and operate it under a vastly improved cost structure.
"The idea of actually starting something from zero rather than repairing something . . . has a lot of attractiveness to it," said Douglas Reid, an economics professor at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont.
If speculation proves true and an offer is presented by New York restructuring fund Cerberus Capital Management, in tandem with Texas Pacific and Toronto conglomerate Onex Corp., it will be worth less than Li's proposal, say Reid and others.
Also, Cerberus would demand the same, if not more, concessions from unions, whose "intransigence," Trinity says, is forcing it to walk away.
Unless the unions back down from their refusal to negotiate changes to pension plans, creditors may decide they'll get more money back in a liquidation. Enter the entrepreneurs.
"If the worst were to happen with Air Canada, within two weeks you would hear the announcement of some entrepreneurial group that would form another airline," Reid said.
"There are probably people somewhere, now, working on start-up plans, assuming the worst for Air Canada."
A new airline wouldn't face the near $10 billion in liabilities handcuffing Air Canada. It also wouldn't have to honour existing labour contracts, allowing it to compete better against non-union, lower-cost competitor WestJet, Reid said.
"It allows you to establish a different market price for aviation labour."
... A motion to approve a new process to assess investment offers in Air Canada is tentatively scheduled to be filed in court on April 27.
Erickson predicts that even if Cerberus makes an offer, it would also require union concessions on pension plan changes and other matters. Continued union resistance could leave Air Canada where Canada 3000 was in 2001 - bankrupt before unions could agree on concessions.
"I don't believe that anybody coming to the investment altar anywhere between now and May 21 is going to ask any less of the unions than what Mr. Li has asked," Erickson said.
He also doubts that the federal government will be willing to take on billions of dollars in obligations to rescue the country's largest airline, especially given recent statements by Transport Minister Tony Valeri that the feds are looking for a private-sector solution.
"If you're a union hand thinking the federal government is not going to let Air Canada fail, and is going to step up to the plate with some money, you are confused," he said.
"This is not the 1970s and that is not going to happen."
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WestJet warned by judge not to use any confidential Air Canada information
Last Updated Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:02:41
TORONTO - An Ontario court judge on Thursday directed WestJet not to use any confidential information the discount carrier may have on Air Canada.
Ontario Superior Court Justice Ian Nordheimer issued his warning on the first day of court proceedings in Air Canada's industrial espionage lawsuit against WestJet. Calgary-based WestJet agreed to the judge's request.
Air Canada did suffer a setback when Nordheimer declined to force WestJet to immediately turn over some documents.
The judge said an interim order forcing WestJet to turn over the documents was not necessary. A hearing on the issue will take place in June.
Meanwhile, lawyers for Calgary-based WestJet argued that the case should be heard in Alberta, even though Air Canada filed the suit in Ontario. Nordheimer will decide in late May where the case will be heard.
Air Canada filed the lawsuit against WestJet Airlines and two employees earlier this month, charging that the discount carrier obtained information about Air Canada using a private web site.
Last Updated Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:02:41
TORONTO - An Ontario court judge on Thursday directed WestJet not to use any confidential information the discount carrier may have on Air Canada.
Ontario Superior Court Justice Ian Nordheimer issued his warning on the first day of court proceedings in Air Canada's industrial espionage lawsuit against WestJet. Calgary-based WestJet agreed to the judge's request.
Air Canada did suffer a setback when Nordheimer declined to force WestJet to immediately turn over some documents.
The judge said an interim order forcing WestJet to turn over the documents was not necessary. A hearing on the issue will take place in June.
Meanwhile, lawyers for Calgary-based WestJet argued that the case should be heard in Alberta, even though Air Canada filed the suit in Ontario. Nordheimer will decide in late May where the case will be heard.
Air Canada filed the lawsuit against WestJet Airlines and two employees earlier this month, charging that the discount carrier obtained information about Air Canada using a private web site.
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Very serious thread this is. In an effort to introduce a small amount of levity and pose a serious question...could something like Canada allowing the largest seal cull in 50 years have a seious impact on Air Canada? Apart from the obvious implication about not following BA in calling Business Class "Club"?!
(OK I'm goin'...)
(OK I'm goin'...)
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Reuters
"Judge orders Air Canada to postpone some layoffs
Friday April 16, 5:40 pm ET
MONTREAL, April 16 (Reuters) - An Ontario judge ordered Air Canada (Toronto:AC.TO - News) on Friday to postpone layoffs of 51 service agents until their case can be heard by an arbitrator, another setback in the national carrier's efforts to emerge from bankruptcy protection.
Air Canada, which is six months late in restructuring under protection from creditors, admitted last month it fell short on its goal to achieve C$1.1 billion ($815 million) in labor cost savings.
The Canadian Auto Workers union contested the service agent cuts, saying the affected employees are not at the bottom of seniority lists.
Air Canada argued it could not follow regular layoff rules because its recently hired customer service agents were fluent in more languages.
"We are retaining a number of customer service agents at Toronto airport and call centers with specific language capabilities in order to provide appropriate service levels to our customers on our Asian, South American and some European routes," Air Canada spokeswoman Isabelle Arthur said.
"The layoffs will happen anyway, its just a matter of deciding who will be affected," she said.
The union said labor arbitrator Martin Teplitsky will hear the case on a "expedited basis."
Air Canada has been under bankruptcy protection since April 2003."
"Judge orders Air Canada to postpone some layoffs
Friday April 16, 5:40 pm ET
MONTREAL, April 16 (Reuters) - An Ontario judge ordered Air Canada (Toronto:AC.TO - News) on Friday to postpone layoffs of 51 service agents until their case can be heard by an arbitrator, another setback in the national carrier's efforts to emerge from bankruptcy protection.
Air Canada, which is six months late in restructuring under protection from creditors, admitted last month it fell short on its goal to achieve C$1.1 billion ($815 million) in labor cost savings.
The Canadian Auto Workers union contested the service agent cuts, saying the affected employees are not at the bottom of seniority lists.
Air Canada argued it could not follow regular layoff rules because its recently hired customer service agents were fluent in more languages.
"We are retaining a number of customer service agents at Toronto airport and call centers with specific language capabilities in order to provide appropriate service levels to our customers on our Asian, South American and some European routes," Air Canada spokeswoman Isabelle Arthur said.
"The layoffs will happen anyway, its just a matter of deciding who will be affected," she said.
The union said labor arbitrator Martin Teplitsky will hear the case on a "expedited basis."
Air Canada has been under bankruptcy protection since April 2003."
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Just a few comments:
I am a Canadian air traffic controller, I have worked in Europe and the Middle East over the past 3 1/2 years. I will be returning to Canada before the end of the year and reading this thread about Air Canada makes me sick.. here are some comments/suggestions.
1. It is disgusting that a baggage handler can potentially make 70.000 to 90.000 when a starting air traffic controller in Toronto ACC starts just above 80.000. I am not demeaning anyones jobs but the responsibility on my back as a controller is a little more serious than that of a baggage handler. I have a friend that was murdered in Zurich a short time ago for being involved in an air disaster a few years ago..it was the husband of someone on the airplane that went down that is being charged for the murder.... that is a pretty heavy burden of responsibility.
2. Over the past 2 years, I have been on over 60 flights. Not one Air Canada. Previous I had flown Air Canada many many times. The service on board is disgraceful. I was always made to feel as if the FA was doing me a favor by pouring me a drink. That is not an attitude to keep people coming back. Take a flight on Virgin or Virgin Blue.. you'll see how happy and cheerful the FA's are... a huge difference. Because of these past experiences, I try to avoid flying Air Canada. Maybe I am a small fish but there are many like me.
3. This company is too heavy at the top, too many people making too much money. How do you even begin fixing this? This is a similar problem as Swissair. Relatively small market, recent unsucessful takeovers and investments into other airlines and huge operating costs.. What is neeeded??? A WHITE PAPER STRATEGY. Start from scratch. This is the only way to save it, re-evaluate everything. It's not by scheduling less ground staff that you save money. It's by making sure a baggage handler doesn't make 70.000 and that a reservation agent doesn't make 60.000.. Adjust your salaries to the industry norm.
4. There is talk about an election and Martin not letting AC go under because he doesn't wanna lose votes. Well let me tell you this and I do not stand alone. Martin and Co. will NOT get my vote if they bail out AC once again. My tax dollars are certainly not going to subsidise an inefficient company with an overpaid workforce (referring to baggagehandlers and reservation agents.. there might be more?)
5, I read that AC signed deals with Bombardier and Embraer to purchase aircrafts. Now why purchase 2 types that compete with each other? Did they get such a good deal? It's proven that operating the fewest amount of aircraft types is more profitable so why add a whole new type to the airline? This upsets me for a different reason. Bombardier is Canadian, a great company and a great airplane... an airplane which was hugely responsible for Air Canada's sucess in the early to mid 90's. Let's keep the money in Canada.... order only Bombardier! Why send Canadian dollars to Brazil?... actually Canadian TAX DOLLARS!.. I want my TAX DOLLARS supporting Canadians.. not supporting jobs in Brazil.
I do not want AC to go under, I want them to fix their problems and become a profitable airline. The industry has drastically changed and companies now have to become fiscally responsible. Good luck AC
I am a Canadian air traffic controller, I have worked in Europe and the Middle East over the past 3 1/2 years. I will be returning to Canada before the end of the year and reading this thread about Air Canada makes me sick.. here are some comments/suggestions.
1. It is disgusting that a baggage handler can potentially make 70.000 to 90.000 when a starting air traffic controller in Toronto ACC starts just above 80.000. I am not demeaning anyones jobs but the responsibility on my back as a controller is a little more serious than that of a baggage handler. I have a friend that was murdered in Zurich a short time ago for being involved in an air disaster a few years ago..it was the husband of someone on the airplane that went down that is being charged for the murder.... that is a pretty heavy burden of responsibility.
2. Over the past 2 years, I have been on over 60 flights. Not one Air Canada. Previous I had flown Air Canada many many times. The service on board is disgraceful. I was always made to feel as if the FA was doing me a favor by pouring me a drink. That is not an attitude to keep people coming back. Take a flight on Virgin or Virgin Blue.. you'll see how happy and cheerful the FA's are... a huge difference. Because of these past experiences, I try to avoid flying Air Canada. Maybe I am a small fish but there are many like me.
3. This company is too heavy at the top, too many people making too much money. How do you even begin fixing this? This is a similar problem as Swissair. Relatively small market, recent unsucessful takeovers and investments into other airlines and huge operating costs.. What is neeeded??? A WHITE PAPER STRATEGY. Start from scratch. This is the only way to save it, re-evaluate everything. It's not by scheduling less ground staff that you save money. It's by making sure a baggage handler doesn't make 70.000 and that a reservation agent doesn't make 60.000.. Adjust your salaries to the industry norm.
4. There is talk about an election and Martin not letting AC go under because he doesn't wanna lose votes. Well let me tell you this and I do not stand alone. Martin and Co. will NOT get my vote if they bail out AC once again. My tax dollars are certainly not going to subsidise an inefficient company with an overpaid workforce (referring to baggagehandlers and reservation agents.. there might be more?)
5, I read that AC signed deals with Bombardier and Embraer to purchase aircrafts. Now why purchase 2 types that compete with each other? Did they get such a good deal? It's proven that operating the fewest amount of aircraft types is more profitable so why add a whole new type to the airline? This upsets me for a different reason. Bombardier is Canadian, a great company and a great airplane... an airplane which was hugely responsible for Air Canada's sucess in the early to mid 90's. Let's keep the money in Canada.... order only Bombardier! Why send Canadian dollars to Brazil?... actually Canadian TAX DOLLARS!.. I want my TAX DOLLARS supporting Canadians.. not supporting jobs in Brazil.
I do not want AC to go under, I want them to fix their problems and become a profitable airline. The industry has drastically changed and companies now have to become fiscally responsible. Good luck AC
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While I have to agree that the unions are being foolish here, the simple fact is that employee concessions alone will not save AC. The legacy of debt and lack of a good business case are also killing this once great airline. The time has come for the cord to be cut, the protection to end, and the airline allowed to sink or swim on it's own. In the current marketplace it will sink. This is unfortunate but it is time for Canadians to move on. Believe me something will rise in it's place. A properly run airline with a good business plan, and sound management will become our flag carrier. The time has come people.
RIP Air Canada
RIP Air Canada
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One of Air Canada's major costs is the ACPP act of which I have seen no dicussion. You can not run a public company and make money with the above restrictions. Another of AC problems is the very low wage scales in Canada. Captains on MD 80's and 737,s earning 27,000 pounds sterling and you pay for your rating no pension plan and few benefits. An Air Canada Captain will earn from 45,000 pounds sterling to around 95,000 pounds sterling .The death of Air Canada started with the forced purchase of Canadian Airlines which has turned out to be a disaster . When Air Canada goes having an airline job in Canada will no be worth having . There will be a flood (4500) including Jazz of highly qualified pilots flooding the market driving wages down.
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When I was learning to fly some 16 years ago , Air Canada was the end game , the brass ring , wow , if I could only get there...
My buddy who works there told me the other day , " ..it`s a s**t company..." what a tragedy of mismanagement , greed and incompetence.
My buddy who works there told me the other day , " ..it`s a s**t company..." what a tragedy of mismanagement , greed and incompetence.
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Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
Press Release Source: AIR CANADA; AIR CANADA - CORPORATE - FINANCIAL
Air Canada Announces Appointments and Realignment of Organizational Structure
Friday April 23, 6:30 am ET
MONTREAL, April 23 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today announced the following appointments and changes to its organizational structure, effective immediately.
"In order to place a stronger focus on our customer and operational performance, I have decided to split our operational world into two groups, Customer Experience and Operations. In addition, certain responsibilities within the Commercial and Corporate Affairs branches are being reassigned," said Robert Milton President and Chief Executive Officer.
Customer Experience
Steve Smith, formerly President, ZIP Air Inc., assumes responsibility for the Customer Service group as Senior Vice President, Customer Experience. Norbert Manger, Vice President, Airports and Brad Moore, Vice President, Customer Service (responsible for In-Flight Service, Call Centres, Customer Solutions and Service Strategy) will report directly to Mr. Smith.
Operations
Rob Reid, Acting President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada Technical Services (ACTS) and Vice President System Operations Control (SOC), is appointed Senior Vice President, Operations with responsibility for ACTS, SOC, Flight Operations, Air Canada Maintenance and Flight Safety. Captain Rob Giguere, formerly Executive Vice President, Operations is currently considering various future options.
Commercial
Bill Bredt, formerly Vice President, Network and Revenue Management is appointed to the position of President, ZIP, Ben Smith, formerly Senior Director Network Planning, is appointed Vice President, Planning. Both report directly to Montie Brewer, Executive Vice President, Commercial.
Corporate Affairs
Duncan Dee, formerly Vice President, Corporate Affairs is appointed Senior Vice President, Corporate Affairs. In addition to his current responsibilities, Mr. Dee will assume responsibility for Corporate Security & Risk Management and Safety & the Environment.
Yves Dufresne, formerly Senior Director, International Affairs, is appointed Vice President, International and Regulatory Affairs with responsibility for Air Canada's international and alliance activities. Mr. Dufresne will report to Mr. Dee.
In addition, Lise Fournel, CIO and President, Destina, will also report to Mr. Dee.
John Baker, Senior Vice President and General Counsel and Paul Letourneau, Vice President and Corporate Secretary will now report directly to the President and CEO.
Air Canada Announces Appointments and Realignment of Organizational Structure
Friday April 23, 6:30 am ET
MONTREAL, April 23 /CNW Telbec/ - Air Canada today announced the following appointments and changes to its organizational structure, effective immediately.
"In order to place a stronger focus on our customer and operational performance, I have decided to split our operational world into two groups, Customer Experience and Operations. In addition, certain responsibilities within the Commercial and Corporate Affairs branches are being reassigned," said Robert Milton President and Chief Executive Officer.
Customer Experience
Steve Smith, formerly President, ZIP Air Inc., assumes responsibility for the Customer Service group as Senior Vice President, Customer Experience. Norbert Manger, Vice President, Airports and Brad Moore, Vice President, Customer Service (responsible for In-Flight Service, Call Centres, Customer Solutions and Service Strategy) will report directly to Mr. Smith.
Operations
Rob Reid, Acting President and Chief Executive Officer, Air Canada Technical Services (ACTS) and Vice President System Operations Control (SOC), is appointed Senior Vice President, Operations with responsibility for ACTS, SOC, Flight Operations, Air Canada Maintenance and Flight Safety. Captain Rob Giguere, formerly Executive Vice President, Operations is currently considering various future options.
Commercial
Bill Bredt, formerly Vice President, Network and Revenue Management is appointed to the position of President, ZIP, Ben Smith, formerly Senior Director Network Planning, is appointed Vice President, Planning. Both report directly to Montie Brewer, Executive Vice President, Commercial.
Corporate Affairs
Duncan Dee, formerly Vice President, Corporate Affairs is appointed Senior Vice President, Corporate Affairs. In addition to his current responsibilities, Mr. Dee will assume responsibility for Corporate Security & Risk Management and Safety & the Environment.
Yves Dufresne, formerly Senior Director, International Affairs, is appointed Vice President, International and Regulatory Affairs with responsibility for Air Canada's international and alliance activities. Mr. Dufresne will report to Mr. Dee.
In addition, Lise Fournel, CIO and President, Destina, will also report to Mr. Dee.
John Baker, Senior Vice President and General Counsel and Paul Letourneau, Vice President and Corporate Secretary will now report directly to the President and CEO.
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Only $400 M you say, pity
So Sorry ...
With WJ's $400M plus $1B in reserve I think AC will be around a while longer...
Carrier to seek millions
By Paul WaldieThursday,
April 22, 2004 – The Globe and Mail Page 8
Air Canada is expected to seek hundreds of millions of dollars in damages from WestJet Airlines Ltd. in a lawsuit over allegations involving stolen computer files, sources said.
"We are not talking peanuts here, we are talking big money," a source close to the airline said.
Another source said he had heard that Montreal-based Air Canada will be seeking damages in the range of $400-million.
The airline is suing WestJet and two of its officials in Ontario over allegations they illegally accessed an employee website to obtain confidential information about flights on Air Canada and its subsidiary Zip.
Calgary-based WestJet has not responded to the allegations but it has put the employees, including a company co-founder, on paid leave of absence while it investigates. None of the allegations have been proven in court.
Air Canada did not specify damages when it filed the lawsuit on April 6, but it said it would be seeking compensation for "loss of revenue and profits."
The airline has alleged that WestJet used the information to triple its market share in the past three years.
A source said Air Canada has hired a team of experts to calculate the damages.
"Air Canada will say that you don't look at its profits to determine what it lost, you look at the incremental revenue it lost," the source said.
Revenue allegedly earned by WestJet as a result of the information will also be part of the overall damage calculation, the source added
© Copyright 2004 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.
With WJ's $400M plus $1B in reserve I think AC will be around a while longer...
Carrier to seek millions
By Paul WaldieThursday,
April 22, 2004 – The Globe and Mail Page 8
Air Canada is expected to seek hundreds of millions of dollars in damages from WestJet Airlines Ltd. in a lawsuit over allegations involving stolen computer files, sources said.
"We are not talking peanuts here, we are talking big money," a source close to the airline said.
Another source said he had heard that Montreal-based Air Canada will be seeking damages in the range of $400-million.
The airline is suing WestJet and two of its officials in Ontario over allegations they illegally accessed an employee website to obtain confidential information about flights on Air Canada and its subsidiary Zip.
Calgary-based WestJet has not responded to the allegations but it has put the employees, including a company co-founder, on paid leave of absence while it investigates. None of the allegations have been proven in court.
Air Canada did not specify damages when it filed the lawsuit on April 6, but it said it would be seeking compensation for "loss of revenue and profits."
The airline has alleged that WestJet used the information to triple its market share in the past three years.
A source said Air Canada has hired a team of experts to calculate the damages.
"Air Canada will say that you don't look at its profits to determine what it lost, you look at the incremental revenue it lost," the source said.
Revenue allegedly earned by WestJet as a result of the information will also be part of the overall damage calculation, the source added
© Copyright 2004 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.