Mytravel shares fall
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MYT
We see in Press releases that MYT maintained market share - a lot is made of that.
Last summer the company 'proudly boasted' of carrying a million passengers.
They then chopped 3 large aircraft - stating a problem with over capacity.
MYT 'maintained Market share', but didn't make a profit off that market share.
It's easy to get market share - you just sell at a loss, supermarkets do it all the time with 'loss leaders' like bread etc. The difference is they make a profit on all the other stuff. It's this last bit that seems ungraspable by MYT senior management.
They come, give speeches, screw up and leave with a nice little severance package.
The staff on the airline are flying their butts off, cutting corners (financially, not safety-wise), going the extra mile (the euphamism not the routing!)
For what? More uncertainty and requests to do more from the latest management earning their severance package.
That's why I left them, sadly taking several thousands of pounds worth of useless shares with me - some package that!
Good luck to the staff on the airline - nice people doing their best and getting no help from the seniors apart from understanding how a Pozidrive feels.
Last summer the company 'proudly boasted' of carrying a million passengers.
They then chopped 3 large aircraft - stating a problem with over capacity.
MYT 'maintained Market share', but didn't make a profit off that market share.
It's easy to get market share - you just sell at a loss, supermarkets do it all the time with 'loss leaders' like bread etc. The difference is they make a profit on all the other stuff. It's this last bit that seems ungraspable by MYT senior management.
They come, give speeches, screw up and leave with a nice little severance package.
The staff on the airline are flying their butts off, cutting corners (financially, not safety-wise), going the extra mile (the euphamism not the routing!)
For what? More uncertainty and requests to do more from the latest management earning their severance package.
That's why I left them, sadly taking several thousands of pounds worth of useless shares with me - some package that!
Good luck to the staff on the airline - nice people doing their best and getting no help from the seniors apart from understanding how a Pozidrive feels.
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Dengue-dude
You've touched on a problem in your post, that is having a serious effect across the whole UK charter and inclusive tour industry.
Mytravels problems, and their willingness to sell their holidays at any price is seriously affecting every tour operator in the country. The effect was particularly evident at the end of Summer 2003 when Airtours literally dumped all their capacity into the market at knowckdown prices in an effort to increase their cash reserves before the lean winter period.
The situation is further hampered by the fact the the CAA is unable to enforce it's standard "free Asset" test on MyTravel due to political interference, a matter which resulted in the "early retirement" of the second in command of the CAA Consumer Protection Group.
I don't wish insolvency on anyone, but the current state of affairs could well involve closure of companies other than MYT.
You've touched on a problem in your post, that is having a serious effect across the whole UK charter and inclusive tour industry.
Mytravels problems, and their willingness to sell their holidays at any price is seriously affecting every tour operator in the country. The effect was particularly evident at the end of Summer 2003 when Airtours literally dumped all their capacity into the market at knowckdown prices in an effort to increase their cash reserves before the lean winter period.
The situation is further hampered by the fact the the CAA is unable to enforce it's standard "free Asset" test on MyTravel due to political interference, a matter which resulted in the "early retirement" of the second in command of the CAA Consumer Protection Group.
I don't wish insolvency on anyone, but the current state of affairs could well involve closure of companies other than MYT.
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My Travels problems are not helped by the CAA allowing
all and sundry to operate within these shores.
European aviation was effectively put out of business
by the likes of Air atlanta and other 2 bob outfits who are allowed
to set up within the uk with very few checks from the CAA ,while the airlines that still exist have to deal with a system that is slow
and still entrenched in the 50's.
I'm told that the CAA will lose up to 1/3 of its staff in the next few years as EASA takes over their affairs and they will in effect become a admin unit.I for one can't wait for the euopean equivalant of the FAA to come into being.
all and sundry to operate within these shores.
European aviation was effectively put out of business
by the likes of Air atlanta and other 2 bob outfits who are allowed
to set up within the uk with very few checks from the CAA ,while the airlines that still exist have to deal with a system that is slow
and still entrenched in the 50's.
I'm told that the CAA will lose up to 1/3 of its staff in the next few years as EASA takes over their affairs and they will in effect become a admin unit.I for one can't wait for the euopean equivalant of the FAA to come into being.
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Very few companies meet the CAA free asset test these days! If the CAA applied it to MYT then they would have to do the same to other operators!
Agree the open sky policy is not helping UK aviation, would not be so bad if it worked both ways.
MYT seems to be turning the corner but who knows what the rest of the year will bring. As for dumping cheap holidays on the market, think you will find TC have been doing the same this year! MYT have wised up on the capacity front, lets hope not too little too late. I really don't want to look for a new job.
Agree the open sky policy is not helping UK aviation, would not be so bad if it worked both ways.
MYT seems to be turning the corner but who knows what the rest of the year will bring. As for dumping cheap holidays on the market, think you will find TC have been doing the same this year! MYT have wised up on the capacity front, lets hope not too little too late. I really don't want to look for a new job.
Last edited by kinsman; 20th Apr 2004 at 20:39.
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KINSMAN
Your paranoia and eagerness to compare the woes of MYT to the profitability of TCUK is pathetic.
Every time someone mentions MYT, you the say something baseless about TCUK.
I wish you luck this summer and beyond, but please get a grip on your anti TCUK bashing theme.
Your paranoia and eagerness to compare the woes of MYT to the profitability of TCUK is pathetic.
Every time someone mentions MYT, you the say something baseless about TCUK.
I wish you luck this summer and beyond, but please get a grip on your anti TCUK bashing theme.
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Wheelbarrow
A little Touchy! Now you know how we feel! Not paranoia just find the one sided company bashing on this site needs a little ballancing every now and then.
TC information is not baseless as you claim! Besides I did not single out TCUK, I said TC! You assumed rather too much I am afraid! I recall TC as a group made heavy losses last year as predicted by some of us who were accused of deflecting attention with baseless speculation last year. I get no pleasure from the fact TC made a loss but simply seek to point out that MYT recieved rather more than its fair share of attention from many self interested individuals on this site and from the media.
As it happens TCUK were selling holidays at very heavy discounts this year, well below prices being offered by MYT if that matters to you! I would suggest their record sales may not be matched by record margins but I am prepared to eat humble pie at the end of the season if I am wrong.
MYT have managed their capacity better this year and have maintained good margins, at least so we have been told! As I said before I hope this is not too little too late. The company feels as if it has turned the corner but who can tell at this stage of the game. Most said MYT would not make it out of winter 2002/2003 but they are still here.
May I respectfully suggest that those who cannot take it should not dish it out!
A little Touchy! Now you know how we feel! Not paranoia just find the one sided company bashing on this site needs a little ballancing every now and then.
TC information is not baseless as you claim! Besides I did not single out TCUK, I said TC! You assumed rather too much I am afraid! I recall TC as a group made heavy losses last year as predicted by some of us who were accused of deflecting attention with baseless speculation last year. I get no pleasure from the fact TC made a loss but simply seek to point out that MYT recieved rather more than its fair share of attention from many self interested individuals on this site and from the media.
As it happens TCUK were selling holidays at very heavy discounts this year, well below prices being offered by MYT if that matters to you! I would suggest their record sales may not be matched by record margins but I am prepared to eat humble pie at the end of the season if I am wrong.
MYT have managed their capacity better this year and have maintained good margins, at least so we have been told! As I said before I hope this is not too little too late. The company feels as if it has turned the corner but who can tell at this stage of the game. Most said MYT would not make it out of winter 2002/2003 but they are still here.
May I respectfully suggest that those who cannot take it should not dish it out!
Last edited by kinsman; 20th Apr 2004 at 20:40.
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I rather suspect that MYT has received close media attention as it is a UK stock market listed company and its UK operation has made losses whilst its shareprice has plummetted. From being one of the darlings of the stock market its shares are trading at a fraction of what they once were.
Combine that with accounting mismanagement, false trading statements and large golden paracutes for directors and I think you may have your answer kinsman !
It is heartening to hear that things are going better now.
Combine that with accounting mismanagement, false trading statements and large golden paracutes for directors and I think you may have your answer kinsman !
It is heartening to hear that things are going better now.
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Thanks Lima, I had worked that one out! Just pointing out to wheelbarrow my motives which seem to confuse him a little. Can't escape the fact we have had some really poor management in recent years, the new lot seem to be getting a grip but I still wince every time I think about last years performance.
Sad thing about the press, if MYT recover back to financial health they may get paragragh on the back page of the FT. Before you say it I know bad news sells. Sad reflection on society, what a loverly world we live in.
Sad thing about the press, if MYT recover back to financial health they may get paragragh on the back page of the FT. Before you say it I know bad news sells. Sad reflection on society, what a loverly world we live in.
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kinsman,
Please dont think I am knocking Mytravel, I am purely a speculator in shares. I cant see how Mytravel, with a debt burden of £1billion, can trade against those without that debt. If they can continue, then 8 pence must be v cheap.
Please dont think I am knocking Mytravel, I am purely a speculator in shares. I cant see how Mytravel, with a debt burden of £1billion, can trade against those without that debt. If they can continue, then 8 pence must be v cheap.
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I was looking at booking a fly-cruise with My Travel on the cruisecontrol web site, it states that their will be NO My Travel cruises in 2005, thats a shame, had some good times on Sunbird, Carousel and Seawing.
Maybe I'll pull one in this year for old times sake.
Rgds
Maybe I'll pull one in this year for old times sake.
Rgds
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Kinsman
Your motives, which you seem to think confuse me a little are nonsensical.
Everyone here can see that all you are doing is trying to divert attention from a company, who, let's be frank are as good as damn it bankrupt.
Add to that, in the good ole days, your directors would probably have had criminal proceedings brought against them for market manipulation or misleading statements at best.
If MYT can get out of a huge black hole that they are in, then great.
However, it will take for EVER to repay the money you owe. A few good years will be followed by some more bad years etc etc.... the industry has always been so.
TC and MYT are NOT connected. TC are privately owned, and as long as the owners can afford to keep the business going they will..... just like MYT really. As soon as the banks can afford to write off the debt, they will. That is the only similarity.
In the meantime, enjoy your summer.
Your motives, which you seem to think confuse me a little are nonsensical.
Everyone here can see that all you are doing is trying to divert attention from a company, who, let's be frank are as good as damn it bankrupt.
Add to that, in the good ole days, your directors would probably have had criminal proceedings brought against them for market manipulation or misleading statements at best.
If MYT can get out of a huge black hole that they are in, then great.
However, it will take for EVER to repay the money you owe. A few good years will be followed by some more bad years etc etc.... the industry has always been so.
TC and MYT are NOT connected. TC are privately owned, and as long as the owners can afford to keep the business going they will..... just like MYT really. As soon as the banks can afford to write off the debt, they will. That is the only similarity.
In the meantime, enjoy your summer.
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Wheelbarrow
Sadly your still missing the point but never mind! Yes I shall enjoy the summer many thanks. Banks now own MYT and it will continue as long as the debt is serviced or paid bottom line.
Qwertyuip
I agree the debt is the issue. Fear share price will get lower by the end of the year due share dilution which is the only real way out of debt situation.
Sadly your still missing the point but never mind! Yes I shall enjoy the summer many thanks. Banks now own MYT and it will continue as long as the debt is serviced or paid bottom line.
Qwertyuip
I agree the debt is the issue. Fear share price will get lower by the end of the year due share dilution which is the only real way out of debt situation.
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Wheelbarrow
I think kinsman has been trying to tell you that the post that got you all fired up simply said TC had sold a large number of holidays in the first three months of this year at very low prices.
They did! What is your problem with pointing that out!
Your arguments seem very emotional. Both groups have lost a lot of money, granted one more than the other. Both have large problems to overcome.
BA are in effect bankrupt with 4.25 billion pounds of debt but I think they will be around for a few more years yet. MYT may well do the same.
You sound very familiar! Not sure you have always gone by the name wheelbarrow but I could be wrong! It seems to me you are trying to rubbish some truths you don't like! Try using some facts to back up your remarks rather than personal remarks you may get further. Please do not claim to speak for me on this forum as you do not! I do not see Kinsman as simply deflecting attention.
I think kinsman has been trying to tell you that the post that got you all fired up simply said TC had sold a large number of holidays in the first three months of this year at very low prices.
They did! What is your problem with pointing that out!
Your arguments seem very emotional. Both groups have lost a lot of money, granted one more than the other. Both have large problems to overcome.
BA are in effect bankrupt with 4.25 billion pounds of debt but I think they will be around for a few more years yet. MYT may well do the same.
You sound very familiar! Not sure you have always gone by the name wheelbarrow but I could be wrong! It seems to me you are trying to rubbish some truths you don't like! Try using some facts to back up your remarks rather than personal remarks you may get further. Please do not claim to speak for me on this forum as you do not! I do not see Kinsman as simply deflecting attention.
Last edited by spy; 22nd Apr 2004 at 16:47.
Spy
I take issue with your comment that BA are bankrupt 'because they have debts of £4.25bn'.
A company is only bankrupt if they have no prospect of repaying their debts. BA has on its balance sheet, against those debts, lots of assets, ranging from aircraft to land & buildings, and nowadays their LHR slots.
The issue for My Travel is whether they will earn enough in the foreseeable future to:
a) service the debt, and
b) repay it
The creditors (usually Banks) will decide on that, and could do one or more of a number of things:
a) change the management (been done)
b) sell off under-performing assets/businesses
c) asset-strip the business, by for example selling aircraft and leasing them back (probably being done)
d) increase the operational gearing (replace owned assets with hired-in ones - done last year, still being done)
e) convert their debt to equity
f) if all else fails, and probably only after they've done all the above, call in the liquidators
I'm not sure whether MYT can survive - I hope it can. At least its position isn't as hopeless as Eurotunnel!!
I take issue with your comment that BA are bankrupt 'because they have debts of £4.25bn'.
A company is only bankrupt if they have no prospect of repaying their debts. BA has on its balance sheet, against those debts, lots of assets, ranging from aircraft to land & buildings, and nowadays their LHR slots.
The issue for My Travel is whether they will earn enough in the foreseeable future to:
a) service the debt, and
b) repay it
The creditors (usually Banks) will decide on that, and could do one or more of a number of things:
a) change the management (been done)
b) sell off under-performing assets/businesses
c) asset-strip the business, by for example selling aircraft and leasing them back (probably being done)
d) increase the operational gearing (replace owned assets with hired-in ones - done last year, still being done)
e) convert their debt to equity
f) if all else fails, and probably only after they've done all the above, call in the liquidators
I'm not sure whether MYT can survive - I hope it can. At least its position isn't as hopeless as Eurotunnel!!
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That must have taken you a while to type! Phew!
My only point was a companies debt is not an indicator that it is bankrupt, which seemed to be the view of wheelbarrow. Only it's ability to service the debt e.g. cash flow and the support of the banks, at the moment MYT and BA both meet the requirements as you have elequently pointed out. Wheel barrow is once again incorrect in stating MYT are all but bankrupt but he does not seem to let facts get in the way of a good rant!!!!!!!
I only used BA as an example due to the huge debt, the figure is very scary you have to admit. Some small countries don't owe that much. Dread to think how many bums on seats they need just to meet the interest payments. Put in context BA's debt was MYT's turn over for last year give or take a few hundred thousand!
The margin between profit and loss in this industry on those sort of numbers with typical airline/tour company margins is very small. Get it right and you are in the black get it wrong and you are in the red. MYT have gone a long way towards making an operating profit within the next two years. As to weather they can return to full finacial health remains a big question as it does for BA, Eurotunnel and many other companies in this country.
My only point was a companies debt is not an indicator that it is bankrupt, which seemed to be the view of wheelbarrow. Only it's ability to service the debt e.g. cash flow and the support of the banks, at the moment MYT and BA both meet the requirements as you have elequently pointed out. Wheel barrow is once again incorrect in stating MYT are all but bankrupt but he does not seem to let facts get in the way of a good rant!!!!!!!
I only used BA as an example due to the huge debt, the figure is very scary you have to admit. Some small countries don't owe that much. Dread to think how many bums on seats they need just to meet the interest payments. Put in context BA's debt was MYT's turn over for last year give or take a few hundred thousand!
The margin between profit and loss in this industry on those sort of numbers with typical airline/tour company margins is very small. Get it right and you are in the black get it wrong and you are in the red. MYT have gone a long way towards making an operating profit within the next two years. As to weather they can return to full finacial health remains a big question as it does for BA, Eurotunnel and many other companies in this country.
Last edited by spy; 22nd Apr 2004 at 21:20.
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This thread appears to be going the same way as others on the subject of MYT. If things are going as well as Kinsman has said they are then it sounds like the corner has been turned just in time.
Banks have only limited patience at throwing good money after bad. The shares are trading at 8 1/2p at todays close. I think BA is gradually being transformed successfully by Rod Eddington but it will be a long transition. That is reflected in their current share price of 294 1/2p.
I have to say Kinsman & Spy that your assertion that Thomas Cook has dumped seats on the market is an interesting one. Perhaps you could enlighten us to the source of your information. The last I heard was that they were assessing crewing levels again due to additional flights being laid on to meet demand. That doesn't sound to me like they are having problems filling aeroplanes at decent margins.
Banks have only limited patience at throwing good money after bad. The shares are trading at 8 1/2p at todays close. I think BA is gradually being transformed successfully by Rod Eddington but it will be a long transition. That is reflected in their current share price of 294 1/2p.
I have to say Kinsman & Spy that your assertion that Thomas Cook has dumped seats on the market is an interesting one. Perhaps you could enlighten us to the source of your information. The last I heard was that they were assessing crewing levels again due to additional flights being laid on to meet demand. That doesn't sound to me like they are having problems filling aeroplanes at decent margins.
Last edited by LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK; 23rd Apr 2004 at 11:20.
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See TTG earlier this year or you could have checked out the website or shops earlier in the year! Heavy discounting rather than dumping is a better description. No one said they were having trouble filling seats, think reverse is certainly true!
