bmibaby/AIr Wales make agreement
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I think the only winner is Air Wales. Someone mentioned sharing profits. With a 42 and the fares qouted maybe that should read sharing losses. Wonder if an LBA/LCY is on the cards with this cosy alliance.
Well that was the Kiss of Death.
In parallel with a couple of us writing here that LCC AirTran run a commuter operation in the US using Air Wisconsin RJs, Air Tran announced they were giving the arrangement up !
http://www.businesswire.com/webbox/b.../240655494.htm
In parallel with a couple of us writing here that LCC AirTran run a commuter operation in the US using Air Wisconsin RJs, Air Tran announced they were giving the arrangement up !
http://www.businesswire.com/webbox/b.../240655494.htm
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Knowing the loads on the Baby routes I think this is good news.
PIK & CRK do not make sense on 737. The longer PRG, AGP,ALC CDG, BGY, PMI routes are going well and the load factors are good. Hopefully new routes will follow.
As for Air Wales being the only winner, my understanding is that BMI have done their homework on this and the contract is good news for the group.
It's just a shame that it could not be kept in house with regional but then they've gone totally Embraer and don't want anything to do with Turboprops.
PIK & CRK do not make sense on 737. The longer PRG, AGP,ALC CDG, BGY, PMI routes are going well and the load factors are good. Hopefully new routes will follow.
As for Air Wales being the only winner, my understanding is that BMI have done their homework on this and the contract is good news for the group.
It's just a shame that it could not be kept in house with regional but then they've gone totally Embraer and don't want anything to do with Turboprops.
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All sides appear to win from this deal, its is also good news for the Airport and the people of South Wales.
As has been said before the domestic routes were previously covered by British Regional with smaller aircraft predominantly the J41 so the ATR42 is a wise move.
Should this succeed then there can only be room for yet more routes and future growth, I understand that there will be an increase on frequency on some of the domestic routes already with this code share.
I expect there will be a number of changes along the next few months which the normal gloom and doom merchants who have a real downer on anything connected with Cardiff and Wales will jump at with glee, but this is a new arrangement as yet unknown in the UK Low Cost market and It will take time to perfect.
Good Luck to both Airlines
As has been said before the domestic routes were previously covered by British Regional with smaller aircraft predominantly the J41 so the ATR42 is a wise move.
Should this succeed then there can only be room for yet more routes and future growth, I understand that there will be an increase on frequency on some of the domestic routes already with this code share.
I expect there will be a number of changes along the next few months which the normal gloom and doom merchants who have a real downer on anything connected with Cardiff and Wales will jump at with glee, but this is a new arrangement as yet unknown in the UK Low Cost market and It will take time to perfect.
Good Luck to both Airlines
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I suppose it would be out of the question for bmi baby to use the 6G ATR to continue the early morning service from Manchester to Cork? Come the start of the summer schedule there will be a substantial decrease from 5 to just 2 daily services from MAN to ORK, one bmi baby and one BA. Lunchtime for the BA and late afternoon for the bmi baby. High season should see more demand than supply - an opportunity there?
Brunel to Concorde
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"The longer PRG, AGP,ALC CDG, BGY, PMI routes are going well and the load factors are good."
alterego,
I am pleased to here this which makes the CDG route decision, reduced from two rotations per day to one per day, hard to follow.
I suppose it is part of the fallout of losing one of the baby 737s from CWL.
It now prevents a quick day's business in Paris without the need to stay overnight. Or perhaps baby realises that not many pax take this option.
alterego,
I am pleased to here this which makes the CDG route decision, reduced from two rotations per day to one per day, hard to follow.
I suppose it is part of the fallout of losing one of the baby 737s from CWL.
It now prevents a quick day's business in Paris without the need to stay overnight. Or perhaps baby realises that not many pax take this option.
Hmmm, to work a 737 with two crews per day on an 8 sector day requires you to be able to have a mix of domestic and med routes. Such as a CWL - Edi - CWL - pmi - CWL in the morning and hten a CWL - Bfs - CWL - Alc - CWL in the evening.
These sorts of parings allow you to offer double daily domestics in the morning and evening (which is what people want) plus every day european shorthaul services (which is what people want).
Its all about making the assets work as hard as possible for as little cost as possible with minimum complexity.
Running 2 737's at a base in conjunction with a code share with an unheard of turboprop operator is anything but.
Cheers
WWW
These sorts of parings allow you to offer double daily domestics in the morning and evening (which is what people want) plus every day european shorthaul services (which is what people want).
Its all about making the assets work as hard as possible for as little cost as possible with minimum complexity.
Running 2 737's at a base in conjunction with a code share with an unheard of turboprop operator is anything but.
Cheers
WWW
Wascally Welsh Wabbit
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wee weasley [email protected] sure you're from Wales?
prat
..getting personal rabbit..focus on the problem not the person.
prat
..getting personal rabbit..focus on the problem not the person.
Last edited by Hawk; 8th Mar 2004 at 12:45.
Rebel PPRuNer
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I would have thought an alliance with Aer Arann would have been a good move for Air Wales, especially if group aircraft and handling deals could be done, given aircraft commonality and market segment.
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I'm with WWW on this. Can't see it being a winner.
BMI Baby's a lo-co. One aircraft type, popular routes, pack em in, sell 'em cheap, ya-da ya-da..
Air Wales however is a brave stab at a Welsh National 'flag carrier' that links CWL with the rest of the the UK. Even though they charge for drinkies they're hardly a lo-co and the whole ethos is different to that of Baby. They use props, fly some low yield routes and are working hard to establish their 'Welshness' and their USP.
Painting one ATR into Baby's colours and co-branding rips up the marketing rule book. Pick a brand and build it. Do it well. Don't mess with it!
BMI Baby's a lo-co. One aircraft type, popular routes, pack em in, sell 'em cheap, ya-da ya-da..
Air Wales however is a brave stab at a Welsh National 'flag carrier' that links CWL with the rest of the the UK. Even though they charge for drinkies they're hardly a lo-co and the whole ethos is different to that of Baby. They use props, fly some low yield routes and are working hard to establish their 'Welshness' and their USP.
Painting one ATR into Baby's colours and co-branding rips up the marketing rule book. Pick a brand and build it. Do it well. Don't mess with it!
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Good Business for AWW
Although only few of you seem to support the move from WW & AWW i think that both parties gain from it - - - - - AWW get some business and WW dont get snubbed for dropping routes. Both winners.
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Good thing some of those who post here were not around 100 years ago when the Wright Brothers attempted powered flight, you can just imagine the comments:
never been done before so it will not work etc.
As for your comments WWW regarding
I didn't think you could sink much lower.
I well remember a 737 diverting into Birmingham with a phone number emblazoned down the side and everyone asking who on earth were they, it was a small fledgling airline very few had heard of and I can well remember then the talk was of how it would never catch on and I bet they will go bust before you know it. Well we all know the story of Easy Jet and no one had much faith in it when it started out.
The negative comments that pervade this forum whenever anything happens at Cardiff astonish me, what is it about the airport that attracts such vitriol. Cardiff is a vibrant happening city and yes the people have money to spend, the trend is changing.
This alliance is ideal for Cardiff it makes sense, give it a chance.
never been done before so it will not work etc.
As for your comments WWW regarding
an unheard of turboprop operator
I well remember a 737 diverting into Birmingham with a phone number emblazoned down the side and everyone asking who on earth were they, it was a small fledgling airline very few had heard of and I can well remember then the talk was of how it would never catch on and I bet they will go bust before you know it. Well we all know the story of Easy Jet and no one had much faith in it when it started out.
The negative comments that pervade this forum whenever anything happens at Cardiff astonish me, what is it about the airport that attracts such vitriol. Cardiff is a vibrant happening city and yes the people have money to spend, the trend is changing.
This alliance is ideal for Cardiff it makes sense, give it a chance.
No slur on Air Wales intended. But they are an unheard of turboprop airline. Nothing wrong with that. My point was Joe Punter is expecting a Jet like in the adverts and will feel cheated as he straps into an ATR.
Good luck to Air Wales I say. And BMIBaby. And Cardiff airport.
I don't see anyone attacking Cardiff airport. Observing that many airlines have failed to make a go of it there is merely a fact.
Cheers
WWW
Good luck to Air Wales I say. And BMIBaby. And Cardiff airport.
I don't see anyone attacking Cardiff airport. Observing that many airlines have failed to make a go of it there is merely a fact.
Cheers
WWW
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Many airlines have failed out of many airports, Cardiff is no different.
Air Wales most certainly needs to market itself, it needs to get out there and show the UK and beyond it exists. It is no good believing that simply because the routes are there they will succeed.
It is a great little airline which started three years ago with 1 D228, it now has 4 ATR42s with a 5th shortly arriving. With the right marketing and a good route structure there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be a first class domestic and short haul carrier in the UK.
The knockers and doubters I know will continue to dig away at Wales and anything to do with Cardiff Airport but this is a very different airport from even 2 years ago.
Regional airports need to be supported, the rapid growth at Bristol airport shows how it can be done. With the proposed motorway link road to Cardiff Airport a similar growth may be achieved out of CWL.
Air Wales most certainly needs to market itself, it needs to get out there and show the UK and beyond it exists. It is no good believing that simply because the routes are there they will succeed.
It is a great little airline which started three years ago with 1 D228, it now has 4 ATR42s with a 5th shortly arriving. With the right marketing and a good route structure there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be a first class domestic and short haul carrier in the UK.
The knockers and doubters I know will continue to dig away at Wales and anything to do with Cardiff Airport but this is a very different airport from even 2 years ago.
Regional airports need to be supported, the rapid growth at Bristol airport shows how it can be done. With the proposed motorway link road to Cardiff Airport a similar growth may be achieved out of CWL.
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In the old days! There were a few people who had no idea how to run an airline. That....... 'old' Air Wales was an almost immediate distater when it started. One or two others tried and failed. Then someone else came along with a bit of nous. Shame that - it spoiled a good record 
- but hey, look at it now. Not doing too badly and a little bit of string pulling here and there, a nudge a wink and a getting together is good for everyone. Providing everyone knows what they doing. 
It is a pity then that there should be posters here who should know better than to put down an operation that is trying to make 'it' work. It serves no useful purpose. Neither does a moderator getting involved. Them that are should, I think, define for themselves another name so that they do not draw forth vitriol and abuse.
So, to the owners and staff of Air Wales. Give it a good go and don't fall in the traps of the past when the originals went down. Be aware of the history and don't make the same mistakes. You got rid of a bad apple recently and that should have made a vast improvement!
And the detractors! Back off! There is nothing wrong with Turbo-Props when they suit the purpose - you don't believe that bmi baby would have joined forces if they thougt people didn't really like t/p's do you?
Good luck anyway.
- but hey, look at it now. Not doing too badly and a little bit of string pulling here and there, a nudge a wink and a getting together is good for everyone. Providing everyone knows what they doing. It is a pity then that there should be posters here who should know better than to put down an operation that is trying to make 'it' work. It serves no useful purpose. Neither does a moderator getting involved. Them that are should, I think, define for themselves another name so that they do not draw forth vitriol and abuse.
So, to the owners and staff of Air Wales. Give it a good go and don't fall in the traps of the past when the originals went down. Be aware of the history and don't make the same mistakes. You got rid of a bad apple recently and that should have made a vast improvement!
And the detractors! Back off! There is nothing wrong with Turbo-Props when they suit the purpose - you don't believe that bmi baby would have joined forces if they thougt people didn't really like t/p's do you?
Good luck anyway.
Whose putting down Air Wales?
My point was that BMI Babys customers might well be displeased to discover an ATR waiting for them when they expected a jet.
Customers have funny ideas about aircraft as I am sure we are all aware.
Cheers
WWW
My point was that BMI Babys customers might well be displeased to discover an ATR waiting for them when they expected a jet.
Customers have funny ideas about aircraft as I am sure we are all aware.
Cheers
WWW
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I have to say I think you are.
But to take up your point..............are bmi baby stupid enough not to let their pax know that? I doubt it and I rather doubt that the pax will mind either. I mean they don't go over the pond do they?
In all my years in the business I have found that almost all working together's are brilliant IF the people controlling it KNOW what they are doing.
But to take up your point..............are bmi baby stupid enough not to let their pax know that? I doubt it and I rather doubt that the pax will mind either. I mean they don't go over the pond do they?
In all my years in the business I have found that almost all working together's are brilliant IF the people controlling it KNOW what they are doing.