VS additional frequencies to IAD/BOS/EWR over the summer
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as I say if you are going to comment do get the facts right
young man.......
BA/ QANTAS
"In 2000, the Australian Air Commission agreed to allow Qantas and British Airways to cooperate under a Joint Services Agreement. That approval is due to expire on 21 July this year.
"Qantas and British Airways lodged a new application with the ACCC for approval for the agreement to continue to operate. The agreement provides for Qantas and British Airways to fully coordinate freight, scheduling, marketing, sales, pricing and customer service activities on both of the airlines' networks. "The decision to allow Qantas and British Airways to continue their current arrangements, for the time being, will avoid significant disruption at short notice to both the applicants and consumers"
BA/Cathay
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-(C)1997-2000 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD
British Airways and Cathay Pacific have signed a new Joint services agreement that is effective from 26 March 2000.
The agreement covers flights from London-Heathrow airport to Britain's four main regional airports, including Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Manchester.
young man.......
BA/ QANTAS
"In 2000, the Australian Air Commission agreed to allow Qantas and British Airways to cooperate under a Joint Services Agreement. That approval is due to expire on 21 July this year.
"Qantas and British Airways lodged a new application with the ACCC for approval for the agreement to continue to operate. The agreement provides for Qantas and British Airways to fully coordinate freight, scheduling, marketing, sales, pricing and customer service activities on both of the airlines' networks. "The decision to allow Qantas and British Airways to continue their current arrangements, for the time being, will avoid significant disruption at short notice to both the applicants and consumers"
BA/Cathay
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-(C)1997-2000 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD
British Airways and Cathay Pacific have signed a new Joint services agreement that is effective from 26 March 2000.
The agreement covers flights from London-Heathrow airport to Britain's four main regional airports, including Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Manchester.
Not Manchester
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What is this meant to prove?
You did use the words "take over", didn't you?
You did say that BA were the major shareholder in these airlines, didn't you?
There's a world of difference between co-operation/code-sharing and a takeover. Or didn't you realise that?
Best if you follow your own advice, I think.......................young man.
You did use the words "take over", didn't you?
You did say that BA were the major shareholder in these airlines, didn't you?
There's a world of difference between co-operation/code-sharing and a takeover. Or didn't you realise that?
Best if you follow your own advice, I think.......................young man.
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Gents
I'm afraid you've been wound up to a tune by WBHM, his condescending tone and lack of evidence is a complete givaway. Remember he called Manchester ''provincial'' , so nuf said , smalltime , no class.
So from someone who works in this dirty game here's whats been going on at compass ,politics! BA have never liked to operate outside Heathrow and when it is seen that other airlines are doing well i.e. out of MAN and BA want a slice of the cake , then there's a problem . Because all the UK agreements stipulate that they have to be done from the same airport. So, Air India , CX ,QF etc etc are doing well out of MAN ,BA can also come on the route .. ex MAN.
This is not for the grand plan so the airlines are encouraged to operate extra services ex LHR and this allows BA to do the same. So a tie -up with BA ,LHR slots are in the bag the airlines pull out , as they need that aircraft for the LHR services ,simple ! BA can now increase services and take them on in their own back yard and everybodies happy. Sorry WBHM but I had to put you right and Lance, your right ,you are not a young man ,you've been on the Manchester avaition scene for years and therefore should of known better
I'm afraid you've been wound up to a tune by WBHM, his condescending tone and lack of evidence is a complete givaway. Remember he called Manchester ''provincial'' , so nuf said , smalltime , no class.
So from someone who works in this dirty game here's whats been going on at compass ,politics! BA have never liked to operate outside Heathrow and when it is seen that other airlines are doing well i.e. out of MAN and BA want a slice of the cake , then there's a problem . Because all the UK agreements stipulate that they have to be done from the same airport. So, Air India , CX ,QF etc etc are doing well out of MAN ,BA can also come on the route .. ex MAN.
This is not for the grand plan so the airlines are encouraged to operate extra services ex LHR and this allows BA to do the same. So a tie -up with BA ,LHR slots are in the bag the airlines pull out , as they need that aircraft for the LHR services ,simple ! BA can now increase services and take them on in their own back yard and everybodies happy. Sorry WBHM but I had to put you right and Lance, your right ,you are not a young man ,you've been on the Manchester avaition scene for years and therefore should of known better
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doublesix implies that there is some orchestrated plot by Virgin to marginalise Manchester by not operating lots of US services from that airport. As some have tried to suggest, though Manchester fans will not listen, the reason is that the company feels that the market at Manchester is not large enough to support a profitable service to any US airport unless one or other end of the operation is a main operating base for the carrier.
As Virgin is not going to spend many millions of pounds on a speculative base for several aircraft, any expansion of services from Manchester will be incremental and gradual. The MCO service (operated by Air Atlanta Iceland using Virgin flight deck, cabin crew and aircraft) is going year round for the first time this winter. There was to be a MAN-BGI service, but that has been put on hold for now (lack of aircraft is a major, though not the only, reason). Any expansion that does occur will almost certainly be serving the holiday market, where loads can be assessed well in advance and flights are effectively chartered by Virgin Holidays from Virgin Atlantic, removing much of the financial risk to the airline. As Virgin Holidays move many passengers through Manchester on other carriers, it is fairly easy to judge at what point it would become economic to operate Virgin Atlantic aircraft from Manchester on Virgin Holidays' behalf. Obviously, so far only Orlando has reached that economic critical mass.
The business market from Manchester is fairly small and quite fragmented - as bmi have already found. There may be as many as a few hundred businessmen and women travelling to the USA fom Manchester each day, but their destinations are many and varied - and are much easier to get to using an American carrier that integrates with its own domestic network from the hub it serves from Manchester. No UK carrier can offer the same ease of travel to secondary US destinations, and there aren't enough point-to-point travellers to justify - yet - UK carriers operating even to main destinations such as New York.
Virgin's expansion at Manchester will be driven by the holiday market. Introduction of business services will undoubtedly follow once the holiday traffic reaches sufficient levels to justify a base at MAN. That may take some time!
Finally, Colegate suggests that we must have had aircraft underemployed if we can now contemplate these extra LHR-USA services. Sorry, but quite the contrary - we are working absolutely to capacity! However, we have received three or four new aircraft in the last few months, and we are not retiring any of the current fleet. That gives us the capacity to operate new services.
As Virgin is not going to spend many millions of pounds on a speculative base for several aircraft, any expansion of services from Manchester will be incremental and gradual. The MCO service (operated by Air Atlanta Iceland using Virgin flight deck, cabin crew and aircraft) is going year round for the first time this winter. There was to be a MAN-BGI service, but that has been put on hold for now (lack of aircraft is a major, though not the only, reason). Any expansion that does occur will almost certainly be serving the holiday market, where loads can be assessed well in advance and flights are effectively chartered by Virgin Holidays from Virgin Atlantic, removing much of the financial risk to the airline. As Virgin Holidays move many passengers through Manchester on other carriers, it is fairly easy to judge at what point it would become economic to operate Virgin Atlantic aircraft from Manchester on Virgin Holidays' behalf. Obviously, so far only Orlando has reached that economic critical mass.
The business market from Manchester is fairly small and quite fragmented - as bmi have already found. There may be as many as a few hundred businessmen and women travelling to the USA fom Manchester each day, but their destinations are many and varied - and are much easier to get to using an American carrier that integrates with its own domestic network from the hub it serves from Manchester. No UK carrier can offer the same ease of travel to secondary US destinations, and there aren't enough point-to-point travellers to justify - yet - UK carriers operating even to main destinations such as New York.
Virgin's expansion at Manchester will be driven by the holiday market. Introduction of business services will undoubtedly follow once the holiday traffic reaches sufficient levels to justify a base at MAN. That may take some time!
Finally, Colegate suggests that we must have had aircraft underemployed if we can now contemplate these extra LHR-USA services. Sorry, but quite the contrary - we are working absolutely to capacity! However, we have received three or four new aircraft in the last few months, and we are not retiring any of the current fleet. That gives us the capacity to operate new services.
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Yes, I had. 
But the essence of my argument is unchanged - the market is not yet there for large-scale main base operations for Virgin. BA may be slightly closer to being able to do that, and can offer some economies of scale when they do, but they won't until the market (ie bookings) demands it.
But the essence of my argument is unchanged - the market is not yet there for large-scale main base operations for Virgin. BA may be slightly closer to being able to do that, and can offer some economies of scale when they do, but they won't until the market (ie bookings) demands it.
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FT quote......
"Singapore Airlines Ltd reiterated it is keeping its options open with regard to acquiring British Airways PLC's stake in Qantas Airways Ltd".
"We are still keeping our options open. That position hasn't changed," an SIA spokesman said without giving details.
There was renewed market speculation that SIA may acquire British Airways' curret majority 17% stake in Qantas following the latter's move to take a 22.5% stake in Air
New Zealand.
SIA holds a stake of less than 5% in Air NZ.
Maybe not a takeover....but a majority shareholding in my book clearly stipulates who is running the show....
The same same applies at Cathay !!!
"Singapore Airlines Ltd reiterated it is keeping its options open with regard to acquiring British Airways PLC's stake in Qantas Airways Ltd".
"We are still keeping our options open. That position hasn't changed," an SIA spokesman said without giving details.
There was renewed market speculation that SIA may acquire British Airways' curret majority 17% stake in Qantas following the latter's move to take a 22.5% stake in Air
New Zealand.
SIA holds a stake of less than 5% in Air NZ.
Maybe not a takeover....but a majority shareholding in my book clearly stipulates who is running the show....
The same same applies at Cathay !!!
Not Manchester
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17% is simply not a "majority shareholding", Bagso, however you look at it. As at 1/2/2004, BA actually own 19.5% of QANTAS shares, still an awful long way short of a majority and the control it would bring. (source: OneWorld website)
You also mentioned Cathay Pacific, if I remember correctly. The major shareholders in Cathay Pacific are the Swire Group(45.1%)and the CITIC Group(25.4%) - again as at 1/2/2004.(source: OneWorld website)
Ever heard the expression about stopping digging when you're standing in a hole? Just accept that you're wrong in this instance and let's move on, eh?
You also mentioned Cathay Pacific, if I remember correctly. The major shareholders in Cathay Pacific are the Swire Group(45.1%)and the CITIC Group(25.4%) - again as at 1/2/2004.(source: OneWorld website)
Ever heard the expression about stopping digging when you're standing in a hole? Just accept that you're wrong in this instance and let's move on, eh?
Last edited by Caslance; 1st Mar 2004 at 01:59.
