Ryanair EU ruling !?
Join Date: Jul 2003
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It is very interesting to see that people think so highly of Ryanair. Ryanair at present has 1.2 Billion Euros in Cash, so they can operate their current operation for 3 years with 0 pax and not worry. Charleroi represents 3% of the whole network, so I do not think they can worry that much. They have no real investments in Belgium (just airplanes and crew) They can easily leave and put these aircraft somewhere else. But before doomsday comes, I am sure the European Union will bring a more balanced ruling for everyone involved. There is still the appeals court in Luxemburg if necessary.
I believe someone will make big bucks with the stock price fluctuations over the last few days as it is a very low price for a robust business model, with solid performances and a proven management team
JP
I believe someone will make big bucks with the stock price fluctuations over the last few days as it is a very low price for a robust business model, with solid performances and a proven management team
JP
I call you back
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This time the iceberg will get it.
I don't think Ryanair are going anywhere and while I can't stand MOL I don't particulary want to see the demise of his annoying but remarkable company. They have been good to a lot of employees ( yes I know about the exceptions ) and have refreshed the European industry as a whole.
While it is difficult to understand where the EU is going with this it is easy to see their problem with Charleroi. They ( FR ) are competing with the airlines that operate into EBBR. They recieve grants for going there and the other airlines get nothing near the same comparatively. That I'ma fraid is unfair competition.
People here have mentioned discounts for some of the national carriers but that is not comparing like with like.
FR will bounce back from this and anyone with a flair for this sort of thing could make a fortune, if you spot when the share price bottoms out.
While it is difficult to understand where the EU is going with this it is easy to see their problem with Charleroi. They ( FR ) are competing with the airlines that operate into EBBR. They recieve grants for going there and the other airlines get nothing near the same comparatively. That I'ma fraid is unfair competition.
People here have mentioned discounts for some of the national carriers but that is not comparing like with like.
FR will bounce back from this and anyone with a flair for this sort of thing could make a fortune, if you spot when the share price bottoms out.
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I'm amazed the gravey train riders have come up with this, considering they can spend €15 flying to Brussles with Ryans then claim a full first class fare back from us the taxpayers in cash.
Perhaps its because this particularly corrupt little practice is coming to an end that they are getting all huffy and taking the trainset away from everyone.
Anti EU rant over, normal service resumed.
Perhaps its because this particularly corrupt little practice is coming to an end that they are getting all huffy and taking the trainset away from everyone.
Anti EU rant over, normal service resumed.
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Now, its Charleroi tomorrow, who knows? Without the operation and business that FR generates at this airport. It could, have ended up on the list of Belgium ex-assets in the aviation. Why doesn't anybody else fly there? I am sure competion would be more that welcome.
I never saw any investigation into the loans (financial aid) that Air France and Iberia…to name a few, have had in the past. And they go into the hundreds of millions!!
I never saw any investigation into the loans (financial aid) that Air France and Iberia…to name a few, have had in the past. And they go into the hundreds of millions!!
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Will the low cost bubble wobble or burst
Ruling against Ryan today to pay back some of the deemed subsidies at Charleloi.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3453285.stm
Could this genuinely start a precedent that could see the LCC's locked in courtroom battles for all of the public airports they have concessionary rates with and having to pay back millions for each one.
Surely they could not survive having to repay back £ millions in concessions at all of the publicly owned airfields they operate to.
General public / regional development
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3453285.stm
Could this genuinely start a precedent that could see the LCC's locked in courtroom battles for all of the public airports they have concessionary rates with and having to pay back millions for each one.
Surely they could not survive having to repay back £ millions in concessions at all of the publicly owned airfields they operate to.
General public / regional development
Last edited by Saitek; 3rd Feb 2004 at 19:14.
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Not all low cost airlines are the same in terms of their choice of airports and the deals they have done with the. Ryanair have just added 50p to each ticket to "compensate" themselves for losing the disability case which should net them £12 million so making up the cost of paying back for Charleroi shouldn't take much - it could even come out of their cash - how much have they got now. The train had to slow down at some point, perhaps they will learn to be a bit more humbling from now on.
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Ryanair must pay €4.5m back
Ryanair has been ordered to pay back €4.5 million in illegal subsidies today in a landmark European Commission decision.
The Commission said cut-priced rates offered exclusively to Ryanair for using Charleroi Airport in southern Belgium were illegal. Belgium government are likely to appeal rhe ruling.
This can't be good news for an already bad month!
www.ireland.com at 11:35
The Commission said cut-priced rates offered exclusively to Ryanair for using Charleroi Airport in southern Belgium were illegal. Belgium government are likely to appeal rhe ruling.
This can't be good news for an already bad month!
www.ireland.com at 11:35
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As losing a case for £1036 meant they said they'd put 50p on fares to compensate... a quick calculation shows that they need add only £1483 onto each ticket to make up for this one. 
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Practical Reality
Soon many of Ryan's new jets will become due for heavy checks. Needless to say, O'Leary will have to part with big chunks of his cash hoard to start paying for real maintenace.
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In Windsor Davies' inimitable words:
"Oh dear. How sad. Never mind."
Actually, bit sad for all the Frogs and Belgiques whose jobs depend on Ryan, though. Mind you, MOL wouldn't give a flying fark about them, anyway. Bas
"Oh dear. How sad. Never mind."
Actually, bit sad for all the Frogs and Belgiques whose jobs depend on Ryan, though. Mind you, MOL wouldn't give a flying fark about them, anyway. Bas
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Okay, before we all start dancing on FR's grave, let's put this into perspective. The fact that the court took so long to come to a judgment only serves to underline the confusion which surrounds this whole area.
Before FR came to CRL, that airport - in a high unemployment area, was going nowhere; the odd Sobelair charter and SN training flight, but that was the size of it. They took a risk, FR pushed a hard bargain and were entitled to believe that CRL was legally in a position to offer what they offered and a deal was done. It brought jobs, access and economic growth to a depressed region. Everyone's happy except for poor Zaventem, which had already lost Sabena - a spectacularly poorly run airline - and didn't want this upstart airport cutting across it.
The EU is supposed to stand for free trade, regional development and free movement of persons; this ruling suggests they've completely missed the point. Personally, I hope FR takes this all the way.
As for FR itself, this is a setback; of more concern, I would think, is the load factor for last month. Okay, January is a bad month, but 71% is very poor for FR. But they'll recover; they already have a low cost base and they can get over this. Don't count them out yet.
Before FR came to CRL, that airport - in a high unemployment area, was going nowhere; the odd Sobelair charter and SN training flight, but that was the size of it. They took a risk, FR pushed a hard bargain and were entitled to believe that CRL was legally in a position to offer what they offered and a deal was done. It brought jobs, access and economic growth to a depressed region. Everyone's happy except for poor Zaventem, which had already lost Sabena - a spectacularly poorly run airline - and didn't want this upstart airport cutting across it.
The EU is supposed to stand for free trade, regional development and free movement of persons; this ruling suggests they've completely missed the point. Personally, I hope FR takes this all the way.
As for FR itself, this is a setback; of more concern, I would think, is the load factor for last month. Okay, January is a bad month, but 71% is very poor for FR. But they'll recover; they already have a low cost base and they can get over this. Don't count them out yet.
Flies for fun
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What a bunch of sad people some of you are. Wake up and get real, the likes of Ryanair provide jobs not only for aircrew by encouraging people who would otherwise not fly to fly as well as bringing much needed jobs to places and people who would otherwise not have jobs. The ruling in question is a victory for nobody and certainly not for common sense.
It's simple really, losers just hate to see winners winning and for sure, O’Leary and Ryanair are winners whether the losers amongst us want to face it or not. Some of you had best get used to successful businesses run by people like O’Leary or you will have to get used to the dole queues, it’s really really that simple!
It's simple really, losers just hate to see winners winning and for sure, O’Leary and Ryanair are winners whether the losers amongst us want to face it or not. Some of you had best get used to successful businesses run by people like O’Leary or you will have to get used to the dole queues, it’s really really that simple!
......and so is the principle of competing on a level playing field. Perhaps if the airline I worked for negotiated a few deals like this one, they too would be able to expand at the same frenetic rate as FR, which would mean more jobs.....blah blah blah
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Not only is this ruling questionable but ridiculous. Why don’t any of the other airlines start flying to theses airports? It’s meant to be an open market or is competition not welcome?
The commission seems to forget about the subsidies that Air France, Iberia and Alitalia have had in the past decade with no subsequent investigations. I think there has been a lot of lobbying going on in the hall ways of the EU parliament.
Oh well, I guess that will just have to go back and start paying higher prices again. So much for fairness in trade and protecting the consumer!
Goodby Charleroi and the rest.....maybe you could start up a fairground, zoo or something similar? I wonder what airline would take all those people to come and visit you?
The commission seems to forget about the subsidies that Air France, Iberia and Alitalia have had in the past decade with no subsequent investigations. I think there has been a lot of lobbying going on in the hall ways of the EU parliament.
Oh well, I guess that will just have to go back and start paying higher prices again. So much for fairness in trade and protecting the consumer!
Goodby Charleroi and the rest.....maybe you could start up a fairground, zoo or something similar? I wonder what airline would take all those people to come and visit you?
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Another case of Europe throwing their unwanted weight around.
Again, I emphasise what was said earlier in the forum, Ryanair are a big success story and whatever we may think of them, this is fact. They have re shaped European air travel, and given many airlines a wake up call. They have also allowed millions who couldnt afford to travel to places, the freedom to do so.
Maybe its my ignorance, but I think this is very unfair. Typical Europe.
Again, I emphasise what was said earlier in the forum, Ryanair are a big success story and whatever we may think of them, this is fact. They have re shaped European air travel, and given many airlines a wake up call. They have also allowed millions who couldnt afford to travel to places, the freedom to do so.
Maybe its my ignorance, but I think this is very unfair. Typical Europe.
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Hmm. At the end of the day "the market" was prepared to pay Ryanair that amount of money for the privilege of it flying to CRL. Whilst my airline may have lost out as a result, I have to say that if that's what the market will pay, then the EC is trying to "buck the market" - to not allow it is a distortion of the market place. For other established carriers to grumble about this is a bit "dog-in-the-manger"-ish. I notice that the senior levels of management in many companies haven't criticised these "grants"/"subsidies" - one wonders what support some of their routes are receiving!
I think this opposition is basically a (French?) non-free-market knee-jerk reaction to free-market forces - and if CRL (or Strasbourg or any other airport) is prepared to stump up money to bring in passengers, then more the fool those airlines who don't capitalise on a business opportunity.
Incidentally, this doesn't imply approval - I am actually pro-fair-trade and anti-selfish-business. However, you can't claim to have a free market and then forbid this sort of practice.
I think this opposition is basically a (French?) non-free-market knee-jerk reaction to free-market forces - and if CRL (or Strasbourg or any other airport) is prepared to stump up money to bring in passengers, then more the fool those airlines who don't capitalise on a business opportunity.
Incidentally, this doesn't imply approval - I am actually pro-fair-trade and anti-selfish-business. However, you can't claim to have a free market and then forbid this sort of practice.