Rudeness?
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Rudeness?
(Best wishes to my airport colleagues this holiday season!)
From The New York Times, Sunday 19 December 2003
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/21/tr...rint&position=
Survey Finds Rudeness a Problem for Travelers
Remember common courtesy? Or service with a smile? A new survey suggests that when people talk longingly of the golden age of travel, they refer not to a bygone era of majestic ocean liners but to a time, not so long ago, when passengers and travel industry workers were unfailingly polite.
Americans who take to the road, rails or skies increasingly take along bad manners, according to a survey published last Wednesday by Public Opinion, the nonpartisan opinion organization, and the online travel site Travelocity. And travel industry workers, while better behaved than those they serve, do not always follow Emily Post.
Among respondents, who included 875 airline, bus, train and highway workers canvassed by Public Opinion and 1,009 Travelocity members who traveled within the last 12 months, 65 percent of passengers said rudeness was a serious problem. More than half of travel employees cited rudeness as a major cause of job stress.
Lack of civility in travel is the result of two trends, the survey found: a general loss of respect and the effects of working and traveling under trying conditions. While more than half the respondents said a decline in values had led people to be less polite, they reserved their greatest ire for parents who "failed to teach respect to their kids." Indeed, 80 percent of the passengers cited "uncontrolled children" and people who kick the back of the seat as major aggravations, followed by swearing (67 percent), loud talking (66 percent) and littering (55 percent).
Stressful conditions that did not exist a decade ago have coarsened behavior as well. A majority of travel workers (69 percent) believed rudeness stemmed from "stress due to lack of adequate staff and resources," while more than half of workers (66 percent) and passengers (65 percent) agreed that long lines and crowds were behind unseemly behavior.
Nearly half the travel workers said they had seen a situation where discourteous behavior had almost escalated into physical confrontation. An additional 19 percent had witnessed situations that did become violent. Most industry workers said rudeness was generally limited to a few people.
The survey, with support from the Pew Charitable Trusts, was an outgrowth of a larger report two years ago on rude behavior in society. "When we decided to look at specialized areas that trouble people in daily life, travel was high on the list," said Ruth Wooden, president of Public Agenda.
Is there a solution short of time travel to an earlier, kinder day? While bad manners are contagious, the survey found, good manners are, too. "I would like to think if people were aware of this, they might take a second breath before flashing out to the next level," Ms. Wood said.
From The New York Times, Sunday 19 December 2003
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/21/tr...rint&position=
Survey Finds Rudeness a Problem for Travelers
Remember common courtesy? Or service with a smile? A new survey suggests that when people talk longingly of the golden age of travel, they refer not to a bygone era of majestic ocean liners but to a time, not so long ago, when passengers and travel industry workers were unfailingly polite.
Americans who take to the road, rails or skies increasingly take along bad manners, according to a survey published last Wednesday by Public Opinion, the nonpartisan opinion organization, and the online travel site Travelocity. And travel industry workers, while better behaved than those they serve, do not always follow Emily Post.
Among respondents, who included 875 airline, bus, train and highway workers canvassed by Public Opinion and 1,009 Travelocity members who traveled within the last 12 months, 65 percent of passengers said rudeness was a serious problem. More than half of travel employees cited rudeness as a major cause of job stress.
Lack of civility in travel is the result of two trends, the survey found: a general loss of respect and the effects of working and traveling under trying conditions. While more than half the respondents said a decline in values had led people to be less polite, they reserved their greatest ire for parents who "failed to teach respect to their kids." Indeed, 80 percent of the passengers cited "uncontrolled children" and people who kick the back of the seat as major aggravations, followed by swearing (67 percent), loud talking (66 percent) and littering (55 percent).
Stressful conditions that did not exist a decade ago have coarsened behavior as well. A majority of travel workers (69 percent) believed rudeness stemmed from "stress due to lack of adequate staff and resources," while more than half of workers (66 percent) and passengers (65 percent) agreed that long lines and crowds were behind unseemly behavior.
Nearly half the travel workers said they had seen a situation where discourteous behavior had almost escalated into physical confrontation. An additional 19 percent had witnessed situations that did become violent. Most industry workers said rudeness was generally limited to a few people.
The survey, with support from the Pew Charitable Trusts, was an outgrowth of a larger report two years ago on rude behavior in society. "When we decided to look at specialized areas that trouble people in daily life, travel was high on the list," said Ruth Wooden, president of Public Agenda.
Is there a solution short of time travel to an earlier, kinder day? While bad manners are contagious, the survey found, good manners are, too. "I would like to think if people were aware of this, they might take a second breath before flashing out to the next level," Ms. Wood said.
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I don't want to be too Basil Fawlty-ish about it, but the level of rudeness amongst passengers is a direct result of air travel being far too cheap and so people "who have never even sat on chairs before" (Copyright J. Cleese) are flying here there and everywhere.
Double the price of tickets and you will:
1) Cut rudeness
2) Cut air-rage
3) Cut stress on cabin crew
4) Cut fatigue on pilots (less flights, less pressure on roster)
5) Cut pressure on ground staff ranging from engineers to check-in people.
6) etc etc.
The more complicated maths which I am not competent to perform is: would the reduction in air traffic, but the doubling of revenue from each seat, be enough to keep the industry viable, or would it cut pilot numbers, and those of related industry workers?
Double the price of tickets and you will:
1) Cut rudeness
2) Cut air-rage
3) Cut stress on cabin crew
4) Cut fatigue on pilots (less flights, less pressure on roster)
5) Cut pressure on ground staff ranging from engineers to check-in people.
6) etc etc.
The more complicated maths which I am not competent to perform is: would the reduction in air traffic, but the doubling of revenue from each seat, be enough to keep the industry viable, or would it cut pilot numbers, and those of related industry workers?
I don't think economic circumstances, as described by the last poster, have much to do with it.
Flight attendants on the major US carriers are undoubtedly the highest paid in the world, and have salaries that those doing the same job on carriers based in developing countries can only dream of. Yet they are consistently, unfailingly the most rude and condescending FAs around, and give the worst service.
Flight attendants on the major US carriers are undoubtedly the highest paid in the world, and have salaries that those doing the same job on carriers based in developing countries can only dream of. Yet they are consistently, unfailingly the most rude and condescending FAs around, and give the worst service.
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I didn't make myself clear, sorry.
As a passenger myself, the biggest rudeness problem I encounter is with other passengers, not staff.
Air travel is a business which requires compromises all round if it is to work smoothly, and an increasing proportion of passengers won't make those efforts.
As a passenger myself, the biggest rudeness problem I encounter is with other passengers, not staff.
Air travel is a business which requires compromises all round if it is to work smoothly, and an increasing proportion of passengers won't make those efforts.
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People are often rude due to other factor than their background or soci-wealth, i have seen some of the worse childish and intolerent behaviour from very wealthy individuals. The worst route in Europe for this set of toss pots is probably LHR-NCE i saw Johnathan Price and Wife years back walk right to the front of the line at the gate with the "don't you know who we are bit!"
Well er No said the young girl who had never seen a horror flick in her life.
A lot of the rudeness seen on charter flights starts with the flight being delayed (which regular business pax are well used to) followed by little or no information and access to alcohol at 4.00am when people are in holiday mode.
Travelling in groups these people then need to `out act` each other with stupid comments about `gay` flight attendants or trying flirt with the hosties which we all know is a waste of time(most don't need any chatting up to get their kit off) only teasing!!!!!!
Anyway to ease the stress they should price alcohol through the roof in airport bars, impose a strict warning that any passenger who has had too much will not be allowed to board, rather than leaving it for the cabin crew to deal with. Give them all a bit more leg room an fit a smoking toilet where they can go smoke them self to death.
Last but not least there should be some sort of dress code, why is it that girls who ought to wear a tent think they look cool in a thong?
Merry Xmas to all may all your landing be floaters!!!!!!!!
Well er No said the young girl who had never seen a horror flick in her life.
A lot of the rudeness seen on charter flights starts with the flight being delayed (which regular business pax are well used to) followed by little or no information and access to alcohol at 4.00am when people are in holiday mode.
Travelling in groups these people then need to `out act` each other with stupid comments about `gay` flight attendants or trying flirt with the hosties which we all know is a waste of time(most don't need any chatting up to get their kit off) only teasing!!!!!!
Anyway to ease the stress they should price alcohol through the roof in airport bars, impose a strict warning that any passenger who has had too much will not be allowed to board, rather than leaving it for the cabin crew to deal with. Give them all a bit more leg room an fit a smoking toilet where they can go smoke them self to death.
Last but not least there should be some sort of dress code, why is it that girls who ought to wear a tent think they look cool in a thong?
Merry Xmas to all may all your landing be floaters!!!!!!!!
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The vast increases in traffic over the last decade in my view is from a segment of the population who prior to this rarely flew, this has been driven by low cost carriers. Fare play to them (excuse the pun). The low costs carriers though have treated them badly. Nobody expects any frills, but common courtesy costs nothing. Low cost staff particularly Ryanair are down right rude. The kickback is now the passenger behaving equally as bad, and this attitude has filtered into other carriers. Smile at the passengers and maybe they might smile back.
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I notice that a few replies blame the passengers carried by low cost carriers for causing all the mayhem and rudeness and that none of this happened before ordinary people were allowed to fly.
From what I read in the press it would appear to be the people with money e.g Vinnie Jones and his ilk that cause most problems. Drink is the root of a lot of the problems but so are delays especially when you do not get a response when you enquire as to the cause etc.
I for one appreciate the work done by the boys and girls in the cabin and at the check in desks. It must be hard especially at this time of year for both passengers and staff to keep on smiling. no matter what.
The rudeness experienced while travelling by air is no different to the rudeness experienced daily in any walk of life.
People are just nastier now a day's, just don,t give in to it.
Runway 31
From what I read in the press it would appear to be the people with money e.g Vinnie Jones and his ilk that cause most problems. Drink is the root of a lot of the problems but so are delays especially when you do not get a response when you enquire as to the cause etc.
I for one appreciate the work done by the boys and girls in the cabin and at the check in desks. It must be hard especially at this time of year for both passengers and staff to keep on smiling. no matter what.
The rudeness experienced while travelling by air is no different to the rudeness experienced daily in any walk of life.
People are just nastier now a day's, just don,t give in to it.
Runway 31
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Low cost staff particularly Ryanair are down right rude
Well I'm affraid we'll have to agree to differ on that point because in my pax experience, lo-co staff - including Ryanair - have always been polite and courteous and also tend to display a general 'sense of humour' that you just don't get with flag carriers. No offence intended to flag carrier crews, who are on the whole very professional.
I don't mean that as a 'dig' runawayedge, I just thought it fair to share a genuine contrasting view. I would go along with the suggestion KAT TOO alludes to that the type of sector, and overall the type of customer, probably set the tone for the crews' mannerisms. They are after all human!
People are just nastier now a day's.......
In fact I can only remember two incidents when a fellow passenger has had a detrimental effect on my comfort. One was someone beating his laptop to death on the table on the back of my seat - became a bit more gentle when politely asked to, the other was a Dan Air pilot who was determined to let all his fellow passengers know his special status.
Actually I've just remembered another one when a gorgeous TAP FA trod on my foot. However, her concern and care afterwards made it almost worthwhile.
So, although I hear the media stories and occasional stories from friends I'm far from sure that we are nastier now. Isn't it a case of there are a lot more people flying today and the chances of meeting a rude one are that much higher?
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I for one appreciate the work done by the boys and girls in the cabin and at the check in desks. It must be hard especially at this time of year for both passengers and staff to keep on smiling. no matter what.
IN MY OPINION, the 'sensationalist' theme running through all our press at the moment inflates the significance of these types of arguments.... it is always the vocal minority that speak up. The vast majority (satisfied) of pax are quite content and do not need to speak out. I am sure there are a few airlines who will always be subject to the nicky campbell watchdog treatment but by and large, they all do a sterling job.
Merry Christmas!
Just to counteract the "never happened in the good old days" sentiment, Jack Bamford in his autobiography about airline management before WW2 describes a mid-air scene on an Imperial Airways Handley Page Heracles to Paris in 1931 during the service of what sounds like a splendid meal, when a fellow traveller proceeds to tear the poor steward off a right strip just because the melon was served without ginger !
So I think it has probably been the same all along.
Actually it makes you wonder; what is the connection between flights then and now. No smoking (then because of fire risk, nowadays because of a societal change). We hear a lot about over drinking by some, but what about the affect on the tobacco addicts of being required not to do what they normally do. And "air rage" stories did seem to come to the fore about the same time as the withdrawl of smoking seats.
So I think it has probably been the same all along.
Actually it makes you wonder; what is the connection between flights then and now. No smoking (then because of fire risk, nowadays because of a societal change). We hear a lot about over drinking by some, but what about the affect on the tobacco addicts of being required not to do what they normally do. And "air rage" stories did seem to come to the fore about the same time as the withdrawl of smoking seats.
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From my experience it's pax kicking up when asked to comply with an order from CC that they don't wish to comply with or when there's a delay after we've boarded the aircraft the pouting childish & complaining behaviour of some adult pax has to be seen to be believed, not to mention the mad scramble & queue jumping to be the first to board the aircraft. Some pax seem to revel in these delays which are for everyone's safety & use them as an excuse to throw as loud a tantrum as they can. Why is it when there are a hundred or more pax in an aircraft all in the same situation there is always the one or two who always have to demand notice by taking centre stage with their complaining & whinging.
For example like on a flight I took recently, an elderly lady sitting at an emergency exit point blank refused for a considerable length of time to put her luggage up in the overhead lockers (or change seats if she was not willing to do so) & only agreed after a lenghty admonishing from the FA. Then when we landed and the plane temporarily stopped far from the gate she charged like a bull down the aircraft to retain her baggage, resulting in a load of pax standing up to do the same, while I pleaded with them to sit down till the FA realised what was happening & ordered them to sit down. I dare say the adolescents in her care had more maturity than her.
Or the other lady (why is it always women I witness misbehaving, I'm embarassed for my gender) 
who during a delay for a technical fault insisted on having a smoke & standing up in full view of everyone at the forward open door of the aircraft throwing a full blown tantrum while the CC pleaded with her. Sometimes I don't know how CC manage to put up with the cr@p they have to deal with, with the courtesy & grace that they always show & full marks to them for it.
For example like on a flight I took recently, an elderly lady sitting at an emergency exit point blank refused for a considerable length of time to put her luggage up in the overhead lockers (or change seats if she was not willing to do so) & only agreed after a lenghty admonishing from the FA. Then when we landed and the plane temporarily stopped far from the gate she charged like a bull down the aircraft to retain her baggage, resulting in a load of pax standing up to do the same, while I pleaded with them to sit down till the FA realised what was happening & ordered them to sit down. I dare say the adolescents in her care had more maturity than her.
Or the other lady (why is it always women I witness misbehaving, I'm embarassed for my gender) who during a delay for a technical fault insisted on having a smoke & standing up in full view of everyone at the forward open door of the aircraft throwing a full blown tantrum while the CC pleaded with her. Sometimes I don't know how CC manage to put up with the cr@p they have to deal with, with the courtesy & grace that they always show & full marks to them for it.
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One of the interesting themes on this topic is the effect of alcohol on the behaviour of pax. It is also interesting to read the parsimonious comments of pax on the alleged drinking by the Virgin captain. Now consider the detrimental effect of alcohol on a passenger who is involved in a minor emergency that requires evacuation after landing and you might connect pax drinking with the safety of others.
Perhaps neither crew nor pax should be allowed on board after consuming alcohol.
Perhaps neither crew nor pax should be allowed on board after consuming alcohol.
Courtesy in Aviation
Lots of quite valid points made I think in most of the posts prior to this one.
My sixpenny worth is that, common courtesy and good manners no matter from whom, be it the SLF, Check In Staff, Customs, Security, whatever, costs absolutely nothing. Also a smile and a polite good morning always tends to clear the air, difficult I appreciate after a long and hassle strewn night duty.
For what it's worth, I find check in staff on the whole fairly easy going and pleasant. Customs I tend to find very correct and rather straight faced most of the time. The majority (but not all) of security staff I,m afraid, I find often condescending, arrogant, rude and difficult to deal with. I appreciate that airport security is all part of flying these days and long may it remain so, but still a quick smile / good morning etc puts ther SLF in a more cooperative mood.
My opinion only, most difficult airports for courtesy etc, any airport in the USA, in particular LAX, Sydney and Manchester. At the other end of the scale I would suggest Changi and Auckland.
All sides, just try and count to ten, apprecxiate your all on the same side, throw in a quick greeting and smile, at least this gives you the moral high ground.
My sixpenny worth is that, common courtesy and good manners no matter from whom, be it the SLF, Check In Staff, Customs, Security, whatever, costs absolutely nothing. Also a smile and a polite good morning always tends to clear the air, difficult I appreciate after a long and hassle strewn night duty.
For what it's worth, I find check in staff on the whole fairly easy going and pleasant. Customs I tend to find very correct and rather straight faced most of the time. The majority (but not all) of security staff I,m afraid, I find often condescending, arrogant, rude and difficult to deal with. I appreciate that airport security is all part of flying these days and long may it remain so, but still a quick smile / good morning etc puts ther SLF in a more cooperative mood.
My opinion only, most difficult airports for courtesy etc, any airport in the USA, in particular LAX, Sydney and Manchester. At the other end of the scale I would suggest Changi and Auckland.
All sides, just try and count to ten, apprecxiate your all on the same side, throw in a quick greeting and smile, at least this gives you the moral high ground.
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Thought about this many times before.
When air travel started, it was a very glamorous affair, and was only really available to those with loads of dosh. Pilots were seen as bordering on immortal. The whole thing was a status symbol.
My wife has an old Uni friend who thinks it is. She is usually the one you see turning up to the airport with the matching Louis Vuitton bags, wearing her Prada "flying tracksuit", then becomes indignant and abusive when she does get upgraded from cattle class to business, and that all the emergency exit seats have been allocated. I had the unfortunate experience of flying with her and her hubby once, and she constantly kept dropping not so subtle hints that I was ATC and something should be done about it.
She is also the one you will see chatting on her mobile during the CC's brief on how to get the hell off in a hurry. Seatbelt sign goes off............CC call button goes on demanding drink. She has been known to request a special meal (her favorite is "eastern vegetarian" requirement, I think I'm to blame for that one.) and then turn it down if she likes the look of what's on the menu. Once her sh!t spinning scored her a bottle of bubbly, and now it seem it's her god-given right on every flight.
And heaven help any staff member who thinks otherwise. Silly cow.
When air travel started, it was a very glamorous affair, and was only really available to those with loads of dosh. Pilots were seen as bordering on immortal. The whole thing was a status symbol.
My wife has an old Uni friend who thinks it is. She is usually the one you see turning up to the airport with the matching Louis Vuitton bags, wearing her Prada "flying tracksuit", then becomes indignant and abusive when she does get upgraded from cattle class to business, and that all the emergency exit seats have been allocated. I had the unfortunate experience of flying with her and her hubby once, and she constantly kept dropping not so subtle hints that I was ATC and something should be done about it.
She is also the one you will see chatting on her mobile during the CC's brief on how to get the hell off in a hurry. Seatbelt sign goes off............CC call button goes on demanding drink. She has been known to request a special meal (her favorite is "eastern vegetarian" requirement, I think I'm to blame for that one.) and then turn it down if she likes the look of what's on the menu. Once her sh!t spinning scored her a bottle of bubbly, and now it seem it's her god-given right on every flight.
And heaven help any staff member who thinks otherwise. Silly cow.
