Cathay buying 14 used B744s
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Cathay buying 14 used B744s
Speednews report today that Cathay is negotiating to buy 14 used B747-400s with a view to operating some in pax configuration but converting most to freighters (possibly launching Boeing's own SF prog). BA likely seller.
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HZ
Most BA 744s are on tax-enhanced finance leases with ownership, eventually, vesting in BA so they can sell them provide the banks get paid out what they are owed plus any tax clawbacks resulting from early termination. A bigger problem is that BA capitalise major maintenance expenditure making the book value of their aircraft much higher than market values. Difficult to see how they'll do a deal without making large book loss.
Most BA 744s are on tax-enhanced finance leases with ownership, eventually, vesting in BA so they can sell them provide the banks get paid out what they are owed plus any tax clawbacks resulting from early termination. A bigger problem is that BA capitalise major maintenance expenditure making the book value of their aircraft much higher than market values. Difficult to see how they'll do a deal without making large book loss.
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Another potential source is SAA - they have around 8 RR-powered examples (same as CX) and have already said they'll be getting rid of them in favour of A340s of various stripes. Maybe they'd be happy to hurry that process up a bit & get their fleet standardised a bit sooner. Another would be Air NZ, one doesn't have to be Einstein to think that Airbus would love to do a fleet-wide renewal there, getting A330s in to replace the 767s & A340s instead of the 744s. Expect some interesting financing sources...
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Notso Fantastic,
I am beginning to question your place in the industry if you do not know what "SpeedNews" is.
Not that you don't deserve a place, but that you must not be very high up the food chain as any Exec will know what Speednews is. 
If you knew what I knew, you would be thinking that BA should be getting rid of their Rolls powered 747-400s.
There might be a huge devaluation of the fleet in soon to come times. 
I am beginning to question your place in the industry if you do not know what "SpeedNews" is.
Not that you don't deserve a place, but that you must not be very high up the food chain as any Exec will know what Speednews is. If you knew what I knew, you would be thinking that BA should be getting rid of their Rolls powered 747-400s.
There might be a huge devaluation of the fleet in soon to come times.
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Notso,
You will find the story on the Speednews website. There is a News Digest if you click HERE
There is no mention of BA being the source nor is there any mention of Cargolux being interested in buying into the project.
CLX is also talking to Airbus about 380F's but that doesnt mean they are going to buy any, so I guess any speculation about any airline buying into the SF project is just that; speculation.
You will find the story on the Speednews website. There is a News Digest if you click HERE
There is no mention of BA being the source nor is there any mention of Cargolux being interested in buying into the project.
CLX is also talking to Airbus about 380F's but that doesnt mean they are going to buy any, so I guess any speculation about any airline buying into the SF project is just that; speculation.
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Hi folks,
I found another source:
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2003/10/1067593114.html
take care,
drive
I found another source:
http://news.airwise.com/stories/2003/10/1067593114.html
take care,
drive
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"BA is likely seller" may be a guess, but it is an educated guess; CX will want RR powered -400s and it is no secret, nor has it been for some time, that BA wants to cut back on its -400 fleet.
Can't see any of the other RR 744 operators listed being interested in parting with -400s. Airbus may well win at ANZ and SAA (when it emerges from its current financial straits) may well add more A340s, but both need the -400s for their high density routes, primarily to Heathrow and the US. BA will be anxious to take what opportunities it can to get rid of surplus 744s, particularly if the planned acquisition of 763s for the RAF tanker requirement falls through.
Sooner or later, this will be a runner.
Can't see any of the other RR 744 operators listed being interested in parting with -400s. Airbus may well win at ANZ and SAA (when it emerges from its current financial straits) may well add more A340s, but both need the -400s for their high density routes, primarily to Heathrow and the US. BA will be anxious to take what opportunities it can to get rid of surplus 744s, particularly if the planned acquisition of 763s for the RAF tanker requirement falls through.
Sooner or later, this will be a runner.
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CX approached BA a while ago but the quoted price from BA was too much!
CX then put out at tender/feelers for 15 RR 744's - hence ALL the speculation on this an other threads over the last few months.
CX has confirmed it will be embarking on the freighter conversion of several pax 744s....the 744SF. We have an internal email to this effect - including who has been contracted to do it etc
CX continues to investigate the 744Advanced and the A380 but needs more airframes BEFORE 2006. Neither option fills this void......which takes us back to the original requirement for more 744s.
***RUMOUR here (in HKG) is that BA has now come to the party..... but for only 14 744s.
Further more the 'deal' involves Boeing too.....and promises for 773ERs at a later date.***
Only time will sort the wheat from the chaff I guess
CX then put out at tender/feelers for 15 RR 744's - hence ALL the speculation on this an other threads over the last few months.
CX has confirmed it will be embarking on the freighter conversion of several pax 744s....the 744SF. We have an internal email to this effect - including who has been contracted to do it etc
CX continues to investigate the 744Advanced and the A380 but needs more airframes BEFORE 2006. Neither option fills this void......which takes us back to the original requirement for more 744s.
***RUMOUR here (in HKG) is that BA has now come to the party..... but for only 14 744s.
Further more the 'deal' involves Boeing too.....and promises for 773ERs at a later date.***
Only time will sort the wheat from the chaff I guess
Last edited by Felix Lighter; 4th Nov 2003 at 14:06.
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Bristolre,
Even if the used UA 744s are currently donkless, I don't think it'd be possible to retrofit RRs onto ex-PW aircraft? Certainly wasn't possible with Classics.
Even if the used UA 744s are currently donkless, I don't think it'd be possible to retrofit RRs onto ex-PW aircraft? Certainly wasn't possible with Classics.
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Taildragger67,
Nothing is impossible. There are a bunch of Pratt to GE converted 747 Classics out there. I will bet a dollar that CX will not buy used RR powered 747-400s. 
Nothing is impossible. There are a bunch of Pratt to GE converted 747 Classics out there. I will bet a dollar that CX will not buy used RR powered 747-400s.
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Not So Fantastic
Herewith complete quote from Speednews email service:
"Cathay Pacific says it is studying acquiring 14 used 747-400s for growth. It would operate some in passenger configuration and convert most to freighter configuration (Boeing has told SpeedNews that Cathay is interested in its new 747-400 freighter conversion program).
Fellow oneworld member British Airways has been named as a potential seller; BA has 57 747-400s with RB211s.
Cathay currently operates 19 747-400s with 345-389 seats, plus five 747-400Fs, all with RB211s."
As you can see I was not adding my own speculation that the possible source of the aircraft is BA - so perhaps you will now withdraw your comment that I was making a mockery of a sound news story - ok?
747FOCAL
Why wouldn't CX buy more RR-powered B744s? What's about to happen to their values?
Herewith complete quote from Speednews email service:
"Cathay Pacific says it is studying acquiring 14 used 747-400s for growth. It would operate some in passenger configuration and convert most to freighter configuration (Boeing has told SpeedNews that Cathay is interested in its new 747-400 freighter conversion program).
Fellow oneworld member British Airways has been named as a potential seller; BA has 57 747-400s with RB211s.
Cathay currently operates 19 747-400s with 345-389 seats, plus five 747-400Fs, all with RB211s."
As you can see I was not adding my own speculation that the possible source of the aircraft is BA - so perhaps you will now withdraw your comment that I was making a mockery of a sound news story - ok?
747FOCAL
Why wouldn't CX buy more RR-powered B744s? What's about to happen to their values?
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Torquelink,
I know it sucks when somebody comes on here touting "well I know something that you don't......." It is not a safety problem or a problem with the 744 itself. It is a Boeing and RR problem and that is all I can say. If they chose not to fix it, RR powered 744s will not be worth dink compared to GE or Pratt in years to come.
I know it sucks when somebody comes on here touting "well I know something that you don't......." It is not a safety problem or a problem with the 744 itself. It is a Boeing and RR problem and that is all I can say. If they chose not to fix it, RR powered 744s will not be worth dink compared to GE or Pratt in years to come.