Flight subsidies - N Ireland
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Folks,
Seems to me that government subsidies for new routes will certainly benefit NI, but surely these would not have been offered had some plans not already been discussed?
I suspect that Ryanair are in the picture somewhere. They are unlikely to go to BFS due to Easy already being the main tenant, so my guess is BHD.
That will fragment the market even more. In the end, BFS will survive because it is our only airport capable of taking the big stuff, and that market won't go away. Also BHD is in a prime development site - the Harbour Commissioners would stand to make a pretty penny if the airport were sold.
What we need for is government to make a decision - what is the strategic plan for NI air travel.
The answer is BFS with a new rail link (not a massive project given the proximity of the Antrim line). Ultimately, BHD and BFS are both handy to the majority of the population. After all, we aren't that big a place, and folk from Bangor would be at BFS far quicker than say folks from north of Manchester trying to get to their airport.
Seems to me that government subsidies for new routes will certainly benefit NI, but surely these would not have been offered had some plans not already been discussed?
I suspect that Ryanair are in the picture somewhere. They are unlikely to go to BFS due to Easy already being the main tenant, so my guess is BHD.
That will fragment the market even more. In the end, BFS will survive because it is our only airport capable of taking the big stuff, and that market won't go away. Also BHD is in a prime development site - the Harbour Commissioners would stand to make a pretty penny if the airport were sold.
What we need for is government to make a decision - what is the strategic plan for NI air travel.
The answer is BFS with a new rail link (not a massive project given the proximity of the Antrim line). Ultimately, BHD and BFS are both handy to the majority of the population. After all, we aren't that big a place, and folk from Bangor would be at BFS far quicker than say folks from north of Manchester trying to get to their airport.
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NWSRG
Cant disagree with anything you say - unfortunately, if we are waiting for a government intervention, dare I say we will all have a long wait! Of course. the answer is a high speed rail link serving BFS but it seems that this will be a long way off if indeed it ever happens, judging by comments recently made by both the DOE and NIR - if I remember correctly an annual passenger throughput of around 8m would be required to justify this. To add insult to injury, NIR have seen fit to close the Antrim-Lisburn line putting the chances of a rail link even further away.
I still think therefore that there is a place for both airports bearing in mind the above. After all, nearly 2m passengers using BHD can't all be wrong.
Cant disagree with anything you say - unfortunately, if we are waiting for a government intervention, dare I say we will all have a long wait! Of course. the answer is a high speed rail link serving BFS but it seems that this will be a long way off if indeed it ever happens, judging by comments recently made by both the DOE and NIR - if I remember correctly an annual passenger throughput of around 8m would be required to justify this. To add insult to injury, NIR have seen fit to close the Antrim-Lisburn line putting the chances of a rail link even further away.
I still think therefore that there is a place for both airports bearing in mind the above. After all, nearly 2m passengers using BHD can't all be wrong.
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ALLMCC,
pathetic throw away remarks re 2001 are not funny, clever, constructive or, to my mind, welcome in a forum like this! Also, your pro-BHD bias and blinkeredness is quite pathetic.
Time for someone to get
a) out more,
b) real and
c) a life.
pathetic throw away remarks re 2001 are not funny, clever, constructive or, to my mind, welcome in a forum like this! Also, your pro-BHD bias and blinkeredness is quite pathetic.
Time for someone to get
a) out more,
b) real and
c) a life.
Last edited by Hawk; 25th Oct 2003 at 01:13.
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Richard Everest
I'll treat such rudeness with contempt and ignore it! All other posts on this subject have managed to retain a certain civility - pity you have decided to resort to insults!
Fortunately, what goes around comes around! Perhaps you might like to consider going to where your personal title suggests you come from!
I'll treat such rudeness with contempt and ignore it! All other posts on this subject have managed to retain a certain civility - pity you have decided to resort to insults!
Fortunately, what goes around comes around! Perhaps you might like to consider going to where your personal title suggests you come from!
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ALMCC
I have to admit I also took offence at your remarks about what happened in 2001.
I know at the time that certain people who worked at BHD were rubbing their hands with glee as airline after airline announced that they were pulling out of BFS.
Now alls fair in love and war and all that there but what happened has been detrimental to the province as a whole, not to mention the poor people whose lives were turned upside down because they lost their job or are now forced to commute to the busiest international airport in the world....
A wiseman once told me, when i worked at BHD and an airline which operated out of BFS had gone bust, that it wasn't good news, cause it wasn't good for the industry.......and as is very often the case what goes around comes around.....
I have to admit I also took offence at your remarks about what happened in 2001.
I know at the time that certain people who worked at BHD were rubbing their hands with glee as airline after airline announced that they were pulling out of BFS.
Now alls fair in love and war and all that there but what happened has been detrimental to the province as a whole, not to mention the poor people whose lives were turned upside down because they lost their job or are now forced to commute to the busiest international airport in the world....
A wiseman once told me, when i worked at BHD and an airline which operated out of BFS had gone bust, that it wasn't good news, cause it wasn't good for the industry.......and as is very often the case what goes around comes around.....
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Unfortunately I can't see the rail link ever being extended out to BFS, NIR/Translink won't spend the money as they don't see it as financially sustainable service and the management at BFS don't want it enough to lobby for it. They are quite happy for passengers to bring their cars with them and pay the car parking fees which make sigificant contributions to the airports turnover.
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Perhaps I should clarify comments made in my recent posts which seem to have been taken out of context - my remarks about loss of business at BFS in 2001 was not intended as a gloat - it was simply to illustrate how volatile this industry is and that things can change virtually overnight.
Admittedly, most of the airline losses to BFS at that time were due to factors beyond their control that is apart from the BMI situation which could have been retrieved. I too have suffered redundancy (not in this industry I might add) and it is not a very pleasant situation to be in after over 20 years service.
All business these days is ruthless and the every man for himself adage applies more than ever. Its really up to every business to sell its product effectively and let the consumer decide where to put his or her money.
For those that took offence at my remarks I apologise - the comments were not intended to be offensive.
Admittedly, most of the airline losses to BFS at that time were due to factors beyond their control that is apart from the BMI situation which could have been retrieved. I too have suffered redundancy (not in this industry I might add) and it is not a very pleasant situation to be in after over 20 years service.
All business these days is ruthless and the every man for himself adage applies more than ever. Its really up to every business to sell its product effectively and let the consumer decide where to put his or her money.
For those that took offence at my remarks I apologise - the comments were not intended to be offensive.
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Latest update on this subject - looks as if some announcement is in the offing. The comments concerning Ryanair are interesting and somewhat optimistic considering the talks have foundered!
www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=784544
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=456528
www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=784544
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=456528
Last edited by ALLMCC; 23rd Oct 2003 at 23:16.
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It's good news to see things are progressing on the European Routes, certainly the whole of NI will benefit.
I believe Ryanair will shortly announce new European services from BFS, I 've heard from reliable sources that Ryanair aren't even talking to BHD about options there and aren't likely to be in the future either.
I wonder what effect Ryanair's presence at BFS will have on Easyjet, surely Easyjet won't want to miss out on these direct european routes ? Does anyone know what European routes (if any) that Easyjet have pitched in for from BFS ?
But lets hope we see a few new carriers setting their stalls up in NI - Ryanair, Aer Lingus, KLM & Air France to name but a few.
I believe Ryanair will shortly announce new European services from BFS, I 've heard from reliable sources that Ryanair aren't even talking to BHD about options there and aren't likely to be in the future either.
I wonder what effect Ryanair's presence at BFS will have on Easyjet, surely Easyjet won't want to miss out on these direct european routes ? Does anyone know what European routes (if any) that Easyjet have pitched in for from BFS ?
But lets hope we see a few new carriers setting their stalls up in NI - Ryanair, Aer Lingus, KLM & Air France to name but a few.
Last edited by mysecretsmile; 24th Oct 2003 at 01:23.
EZY will only fly from BFS to other established destination airports in their network, like GVA, PRG, CDG and AMS. FR won't fly to any of these due to cost. In my view their most likely destinations are their European hubs like HHN and BGO.
So FR and EZY are unlikely to compete head-to-head, unless FR decides to start STN-BFS!
So FR and EZY are unlikely to compete head-to-head, unless FR decides to start STN-BFS!
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Spoke to a newly recruited easyjet cabin crew member last week and she was told during her training course that CDG, BCN, AGP, ALC are the routes that easyjet are looking to start in the new year from BFS.
Also and increased frequency to AMS is also expected soon.
Also and increased frequency to AMS is also expected soon.
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All this talk of predicted routes is somewhat premature bearing in mind that not only BFS but also BHD & LDY have made submissions to Air Route Development. It will then be up to them under consultation to decide which are viable and hence qualify for a subsidy.
What is clear is that any incursion by Ryanair into Easyjet's monopoly at BFS could well have serious consequences for Easyjet's relationship with BFS. OK initially there may not be any competition between the two but, down the line, once MOL gains a foothold he will grasp any opportunity to compete head on with them on any route be it domestic or international. A battle for business could then ensue with BFS being caught in the middle and it would only be matter of time before one operator would have to give in. One can only surmise that it is for this very reason that exploratory talks between Ryanair & BFS have produced no agreement.
In addition, it should also be borne in mind that operations from BHD could be seriously compromised and in the end the flying passenger could well be worse off with less choice! Is this really what we all want?
What is clear is that any incursion by Ryanair into Easyjet's monopoly at BFS could well have serious consequences for Easyjet's relationship with BFS. OK initially there may not be any competition between the two but, down the line, once MOL gains a foothold he will grasp any opportunity to compete head on with them on any route be it domestic or international. A battle for business could then ensue with BFS being caught in the middle and it would only be matter of time before one operator would have to give in. One can only surmise that it is for this very reason that exploratory talks between Ryanair & BFS have produced no agreement.
In addition, it should also be borne in mind that operations from BHD could be seriously compromised and in the end the flying passenger could well be worse off with less choice! Is this really what we all want?
Last edited by ALLMCC; 24th Oct 2003 at 18:21.
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ALLMCC
I don't know the exact process in relation to the award of subsidies form the Route Development Fund - but I guess they will have to weigh up competing "bids". I am not sure how much BHD will be effected since I don't see how a route already served from BHD "economically" can be served from BFS under a subsidy - surely the criteria has to be that it is not served at present?
As for Ryanair competing with easyJet very rarely do they go head-head since easyJet aim to fly to "principal airports" rather than "secondary" ones - the one direct head-head one is STN-CIA which is an ex-go route and on which it looks lie Ryanair are taking the lion's share. I don't see the arrival of Ryanair at BFS having that much impact on easyJet unless there is a finite number of travellers who are not destination-concerned (e.g. those just looking for a cheap weekend away in Europe, but don't mind if its Germany or the Netherlands - they may switch to going on a Ryanair flight to Hahn rather than an easyJet one of Amsterdam or whatever.
As for Ryanair not coming to an agreement with BFS - I'm sure they're playing hardball as ever and sticking out for the best deal - while also keeping LDY as an option.
Anyone know when the first subsidised routes will be announced?
I don't know the exact process in relation to the award of subsidies form the Route Development Fund - but I guess they will have to weigh up competing "bids". I am not sure how much BHD will be effected since I don't see how a route already served from BHD "economically" can be served from BFS under a subsidy - surely the criteria has to be that it is not served at present?
As for Ryanair competing with easyJet very rarely do they go head-head since easyJet aim to fly to "principal airports" rather than "secondary" ones - the one direct head-head one is STN-CIA which is an ex-go route and on which it looks lie Ryanair are taking the lion's share. I don't see the arrival of Ryanair at BFS having that much impact on easyJet unless there is a finite number of travellers who are not destination-concerned (e.g. those just looking for a cheap weekend away in Europe, but don't mind if its Germany or the Netherlands - they may switch to going on a Ryanair flight to Hahn rather than an easyJet one of Amsterdam or whatever.
As for Ryanair not coming to an agreement with BFS - I'm sure they're playing hardball as ever and sticking out for the best deal - while also keeping LDY as an option.
Anyone know when the first subsidised routes will be announced?
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Brabazon
Fair comment - all I'm saying is I just can't see Ryanair & Easyjet co-existing at BFS. Its common knowledge that Easyjet have BFS by the b***s and BFS simply cannot afford to compromise their operations. To bring Ryanair in at all bearing in mind that there is little love lost between the two would be like waving the proverbial red flag at the bull and would result in BFS being used as a battleground for a war of words - would this really benefit anyone?
I agree that MOL will probably hold out for the best deal he can get but I simply can't see him being content to operate a few routes out of BFS and simply sit back and watch while Easyjet flood the rest of the market - his track record in the past has shown that he is quite prepared to take on Easyjet on their own territory & his almost daily comments about them are somewhat less than complimentary!
Fair comment - all I'm saying is I just can't see Ryanair & Easyjet co-existing at BFS. Its common knowledge that Easyjet have BFS by the b***s and BFS simply cannot afford to compromise their operations. To bring Ryanair in at all bearing in mind that there is little love lost between the two would be like waving the proverbial red flag at the bull and would result in BFS being used as a battleground for a war of words - would this really benefit anyone?
I agree that MOL will probably hold out for the best deal he can get but I simply can't see him being content to operate a few routes out of BFS and simply sit back and watch while Easyjet flood the rest of the market - his track record in the past has shown that he is quite prepared to take on Easyjet on their own territory & his almost daily comments about them are somewhat less than complimentary!
