Sun Air eclipse, we're gone
 

Hi folks, as a Sun Air pilot, I can confirm that Sun Air is ceasing operations tommorow, Friday the 13(amazing).

SAA has bought and closed down Sun Air, Aircraft will be ferried back to Johannesburg Friday night. SAA will take on the passengers and have said that they will interview all Sun Air staff.
SAA is rumoured to have advised allied airlines, Comair, Nationwide ,SA Express and SA Airlink to hold all their pilot positions, as SAA will be placing 60 Sun Air EX pilots.
By the way, I did my last flight today

Unemployed/jumbo Mouse

Sorry to hear that... hope that you are one of those who get picked up by SAA

JJ

Sorry to hear about your company Jumbo.......best of luck with SAA...

SAA bought 75% of Sun Air and closed it down within minutes. My thoughts are definitely with the many employees and their families affected by this. I can only hope that SAA honours their word and employs a good deal of Sun Air's award winning staff. The future of the cockpit crew would appear to be somewhat unclear, and many conflicting and unsubstantiated stories are floating around the industry at present. Time will tell once the initial dust has settled. The South African airline industry has proved to be very unforgiving in the past, and this is shown to be true again today. An unlucky and sad Friday the 13th indeed.

sorry to hear of your closure, we have some SA pilots with us and always on the look out let us know what u have on your licence, good luck

Sorry to hear it, guys. Good old bully-boy SAA reverting to type, once more.
Good luck, Sun Air guys, we're holding thumbs for you.

Tired, sorry to see that you feel that SAA are the bad boys in this case. I don't know about reverting to type, this deal was brokered by the new boss, not the 'old boys club' of yesteryear.
My understanding (limited as it may be) is that Sunair was up the creek without a paddle, big time. SAA started to negotiate with them about 3 weeks before the collapse, planning a 3 month inquiry as to the viability of the airline, when events started to overtake even them. The decision was made, in conjunction with Comair (25% shareholder), the black empowerment group (the remaining 75%), SAA (as the only big/stable airline in the region) and the government Competitions Board, that a steady, controlled liquidation was much more preferable to the shambles that followed the Phoenix collapse.
Matbe SAA should have stayed out, not put a rescue plan into place for all the Sunair pax, and not paid the employees salaries until the end of the month (and interviewed most of the ground staff and cabin crew for jobs), and let the Sunair management explain to everybody why there was no pay past 15th August, no flights for those who'd paid for their tickets, etc.
Sure, SAA did not do this all from the good of their hearts, there will be some payback, maybe just in pax who now have to use SAA, or gaining some excellent staff, but either way, I think it was better as an orderly liquidation than a slow crumble to nothing.
Well, we're all entitled to an opinion!
skyvan

Skyvan - as I understand it, both Virgin and SAA were interested in buying into Sun Air about 3 months ago. When it became obvious that Virgin was quite serious SAA stepped in and threatened an all out price-war unless Sun Air gave them a 3 month exclusive option, or whatever it's called. It sounds to me like Virgin lost the plot at this stage because SAA duly ended up with it's 3 month pre-emptive clause, the result of which is that Sun Air is now no more.
I know that SAA has been promising to employ as many of Sun Air's staff as they can, but to my knowledge nothing has yet happened. Early days yet, I know, lets just hope SAA keeps it's word.
As I'm sure you'll point, out there's been no underhand dealings by SAA - all just good, hard bussiness, I agree. Still and all, I get the distinct impression that SAA took the opportunity to get rid of a competitor that has been a thorn in it's side for quite a few years.
As you say, we're all entitled to an opinion.

I'm curious if the fact that Sun Air was run by something called "black capital" to promote "black tourism" had any bearing on how people were recruited to the airline, and if it was visibly more "black" than other SA airlines in terms of cockpit and pilot crews' ethnical backgrounds.

Was the Sun Air demise somehow related to animosities between "old" and "new" business circles in South Africa ?


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Jan-Erik Andelin
MD80 INTERNATIONAL FORUM
http://surf.to/md80

Well, as we all could have assummed, the big
SAA has advised it will not be employing any pilots.(surprise,surprise)

Let me just clarify something here.
SAA where negotiating with Sun Air to take a major share in the airline, Sun Air was given a game plan, including new routes(SAA internal and regional)- operation was to be as a seperate entity.

In the interim Virgin and a private company was interested in a stake in Sun Air, the "black consortium" with the major share in Sun Air struck up a deal with SAA(obviously underhanded) giving SAA a 3 month option on their intention to purchase. In the interim Virgin was lost but the private buyer persisted and vigorously persued a stake in Sun Air-only to be shafted by the "black consortium" - tks South Africa

Sun Air had made good profit until the "black consortium" started milking the cow-Sun Air. This "black consortium" was the same group of scabangers that ran PePsi S.A. into the ground in 9 months.

At this stage the liquidation process seems to be a grey area at present, no liquidation as yet.

Virtually until the signing by SAA, Sun Air was under the impression that it was to be run as a seperate entity as a feeder airline to SAA-Shafted.

By the way, Md80 forum, we had no black cockpit crew.

Alot of cabin and ground staff have been given 1 month contracts with SAA, can you believe it.

Anyway, if you folk know of any jobs for MD80 or DC9 crew, please could you forward the information, it would dearly be appreciated by 66 unemployed pilots.

Tks
jumbo Mouse (without cheese or an aeroplane)

As skyvan said, we are all entitled to an opinion, so here's mine. Up until yesterday, the only "facts" of the matter were those put out by SAA. I know the victor gets to write the history books, but perhaps a little bit of honesty would not go amiss here.
As jumbo says, SAA led the management of Sun Air up the garden path with promises (mentioned by jumbo) that were just too good to believe. Perhaps management was naive to believe them, but perhaps they never considered possible the events that ensued. SAA was the instigator of a vicious price war that sparked an anti-competitive court case against it by Sun Air, Comair and Nationwide. Sun Air had up until this year always returned a profit, but this price war dragged on for nine months, and Sun Air suffered. SAA showed interest in an equity agreement with Sun Air, but was obviously not going to get into bed with a company that was sueing it. Sun Air withdrew from the court case and SAA got three months exclusivity in which to have a look at Sun Air. This also served to keep the other suitor, Virgin, out of the picture.

SAA decided to buy Sun Air out, and within minutes shut it down. Rethabile, who had incompetently attempted to run Sun Air, had sold the staff down the river. They have apparently made a tidy profit from this deal.

The mythical rescuer, the magical Mr SAA, is not helping all of the Sun Air pax. Only gold and silver aireward members are having their tickets honoured, the rest must go on standby for flights that are totally overbooked. Apparently SAA was going to put on extra flights to cater for the additional pax; there was little evidence of this. And why not help them? As they can no longer fly Sun Air, these frequent flyers will be a welcome boost to an airline which could really give lessons on making a loss!

I agree that it was all just good old hard business from CA at SAA, and if you are an SAA employee, to be applauded. The almost 800 employees of Sun Air who have nothing more than promises at this stage, it is a little more difficult to swallow. As far as jobs for staff go, the only ones who seem to be in luck are the cabin attendants, as they are to be interviewed. Once again, why not? Sun Air's cabin crew were a vital ingredient in making it the best domestic carrier for so many years in a row. Also, by giving these staff one month contracts, doesn't it take them out of the loop nicely if the liquidation does not go through.

I'm sure SAA will attempt to put the entire situation in as favourable a light (to it) as possible. It would seem though, that the press is slowly waking up, as more unbiased pieces have started appearing since yesterday.

Make no mistake, it is only a matter of time before the whole truth of the matter comes out, and I think it is going to be a tale of double-dealing and back-stabbing to rival "Dallas".




[This message has been edited by Banoi (edited 20 August 1999).]

Well said, Banoi and jumbo Mouse. Skyvan although I admire your loyalty to your company, I'm afraid you're farting against thunder. SAA might be run by new faces, but the old arrogant, bully boy attitude is still there. With each day that goes past it becomes more apparent that this whole episode was purely to get rid of a competitor that has shown SAA up to be a 3rd rate airline year after year. "A steady, controlled liquidation" that would "look after the interest of the Sun Air" pax I think you said? I presume you wrote that tongue in cheek, if not you're living in dream world, boy. As Banoi points out, SAA does not have the capacity to fly all the extra pax, so they're on standby. I think I'd rather have my interests looked after by someone else, thanks!
While on this sorry subject, anyone else from foreign airlines who is reading this - be awarec that SAA has placed an embargo on all rebated (ID90)travel by staff of other airlines. If you are have been planning to use your interline agreements to travel in South Africa in the next few weeks it would seem you will have to make other plans. Nice one, SAA, I sincerely hope my airline is doing to your staff what you have done to me.

Hi Neal sorry to hear what happened.

Just a little news from the other side of the fence at Comair. Comair started interview some of the Sun Air pilots on Monday already. So those guys and gal who haven't dropped off a C.V best do so, as I understand our needs are filled for the year but with the demise of Sun Air it may lead the way open for more expansion.
Comair has been taking as many Sun Air pax as we can.
Such a pity to see to see an airline go down after a price war initiated by a bankrupt airline that keeps going with our tax money.
Before all the SAA types shout "we're profitable this year", I believe that to be creative bookkeeping (That's from a source who's reportedly seen the books). Even if SAA were making a profit they are still Billions of rand in the red, or don't SAA have to pay back there loses, thats what the taxman is for.

[This message has been edited by Antman (edited 19 August 1999).]

Sorry to read about the Sun Air pilots losing their jobs. Are there any labor protective provisions that might give you all preference in interviews anywhere? The US provisions here a joke. It sounds like the business climate there is just as fascist as ours.

The local radio news has just announced that Sun Air may be in a position to effect a recovery. It would appear that SAA rushed the gate a bit, and government is now questioning the whole matter. There is apparently an issue regarding R20 million that was never paid on privatisation. Government is questioning whether SAA could have bought Sun Air. Intersting. More later.

Banoi - that's good news. Holding thumbs for you all.

Hhhhmmmm ... Looks like there's a story "behind the news" here ... If there is I'd like to tell it (I'm a Journalist). The word on the street is that black empowerment 'fat cats' drove Sun Air into the ground and pocketed the profits, I'd like to tell the story. Trying to verify these allegations is proving near impossible. So far, I've done nothing but run into brick walls. If any of you have info (that can be substantiated!!) I'd appreciate it if you dropped me a line ... My personal e-mail address is: [email protected]

Thanks.

Hi Jumbo Mouse

Thank you for your support and effort so far.
It is about time that somebody set the record straight.

To Skyvan

Considering the facts that the Taxman (including yourself) forked out millions to subsidize your over inflated salary. I refer to an article published in the Sunday Times (29 November 1998), (Odette Quesnel - I hope you start taking notes) SAA's losses for the time period 1996/97 = R323 million,
1997/98 = R314 million, and for the next six months up to end of September 1998 = R207 million.

With such financial success, I would not pass comment on other airline's financial state of afairs.

I would like to bring the following point under the attention of the International Aviation Community. With reference to the jobs, being created by SAA for Ex-Sun Air cabin crew, I would like to point out that the R2700,00 per month (US $450) without medical or any other benefits is not something to be thankful about. "Maybe an "overpaid" First Officer would appreciate such a salary."

Keep in mind the wheel turns. Enjoy the ride while on top. (Never is a very long time).

To Antman,

De Freitas is that you? Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.

Thanks

SH.....T happens!!
We all are entitled to an opinion.

Goodness me! Some people can only believe that Goliath is bad, and David is lilywhite.
I'm sorry to all who feel that I denigrated Sunair in my post, as I stated, what I posted was my understanding of the situation. If you feel that SAA was sneaky and underhanded, and it was not right, again you are welcome to your opinions. Unfortunately, in the business world, it seems that morality has no place (worse luck for all). If the SAA management saw a way to close down one of the opposition companies, then took the opportunity, then such is business, but don't put all the blame on SAA's door, as has been stated earlier, the owners of the 75% of Sunair that SAA bought must also carry some of the blame.
Please don't think that I am unsympathetic to the plight of the staff, being unemployed in SA right now is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Good luck to you all.
I actually hope that the staff can get the rescue bid together, at times like this, the country needs employees, not the unemployed. Also I think that Sunair was/is a great airline. It's a pity the owners did not think so.
By the way, the comment about the cabin crew salary is a bit silly, don't you think. It may not be as much as they were paid at Sunair, but with allowances (both domestic and international), it can't be too bad. Probably a lot better than not working at all.
As to my being an overpaid first officer, I'll bet if you were offered my salary, you'd also take it. So calm down. This may be the opportunity that gives you the job you've always wanted, maybe not, but it is the hand that life has dealt you.
As has been said, the wheel turns. In the past, SAA had to stand back while Comair, Sunair and others were setting up, and taking SAA pax. Not necessarily a bad thing, competition is good for standards. Now SAA did not stand back, and removed an opponent. I'm sure that the wheel will turn again, and then SAA will suffer then. So be it.
To quote one of the regular PA chirps
"Life is what you make it, and if you don't make it, that's Life"

[This message has been edited by skyvan (edited 20 August 1999).]

Coleman Andrews is quoted in the Financial Mail of the 20th August as saying that Sun Air only had sufficient funds to continue operations until Saturday, the day after Sun Air ceased flying.
Skyvan says,"Unfortunately, in the business world, it seems that morality has no place (worse luck for all). If the SAA management saw a way to close down one of the opposition companies, then took the opportunity, then such is business."
Would some-one please explain to me why a businessman, with his company's best interests presumably at heart, decided to try and buy out an airline that was going to fold up the next day anyway. Please don't tell me it was because he was protecting the ticketholders; those people still could have been carried by SAA without having to acquire Sun Air. Protecting the staff? They could still have been interviewed and hired if found suitable.
Was SAA forced into attempting to save the black empowerment group Rethabile from embarassment, so that at least they would be able to walk away from Sun Air with their finances intact? Did Coleman rush in, and bungle it, now causing government to have to step in to save itself from embarassment?
Something smells bad in this kitchen, and it ain't the soup.