Theses 49 last pages of the thread should already answer much of your questions ;)

http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...ml#post6056863 No Hours since 2011 ??!

CGaviator :ugh:

Lepechou and theSOD

Your comments were not properly helpful!

I´m looking for professional advice not silly comments!

Prudence and do not make any judgements, you are not God!

:D this guys gonna go far...

Do some reading. No one's gonna spoon feed you everything.

There was professional advice given throughout this thread.
If you do not have the patience required to read through it, then Africa is certainly not for you.

Alright, here is my professional advice.

Do a big U turn, hit the page number that says "1" start to read until the thread ends.

Hope that helps.

Sorry to be so blunt, however, we have all done the hard work and research. You cannot expect someone to spoon feed you information that is already at your fingertips.

Best of luck

Hi Guys, just a quick question. I have more than 3000 hs TT (1200 in C208), I've been working in Tanzania too. I know that there the salary is much better than in Botswana but I was looking for a new place to fly. I know that I have to come there personally. The problem is: do they accept 45 years old pilot ?:rolleyes:

What is wrong with 45?

Of course. The companies welcome experienced more mature pilots for potential management posts.

Hmmmm, I think that 45 is a bit too old...;)

Anyone heading to Maun this year? I'm planning to turn up in early Oct 2015 and stay until Feb 2016 depending on my budget.

LFB2, thanks for your great initial post and you're continuing advice :ok:

Also a big thanks to CC, CVS, Exascot, PIP, DRS and Twotter for their super amazing info.

Looks like there are three of us thus far. One of the guys wants to set up a WhatsApp group so that we can all stay in touch. PM me and i'll send your email address and phone # to him so that he can add you.

Has anyone been able to find the reg/circular/directive/document issued by either the CAAB or the Dept of Labour and Home Affairs. I'm still looking.

Any of the regulars know where I can find it?

Abezzi! Too old huh? I take it that you're packing your bags to leave then? :E



K.O.- Is there a specific document that you're looking for? Labor Dept. doesn't really publish anything useful with regards to permits.

abezzi Sorry I forgot your synonym old boy otherwise I would also have commented. I can't talk but I only fly part-time unpaid.

There is something parked down that reminded us of you today.

My adivce, DONT DO IT!


I was in a position very similar to yours, I found that if you don't fit their mold, ie a low time desperate pilot, you'll have a harder time getting a job than a 200hr wonder.

It's like showing up for a interview at a cheap fast food joint as a formally trained and highly experienced chef, the management just isn't that bright and will think something must be wrong with you, or that you're after their job.

Stay in TZ, or find a job that requires a EXPERIENCED pilot, climb UP that ladder, not down it ;)

James It depends upon the company. As you know, there are many. The best are managed by very experienced and capable people. They would not have this childish attitude. They would see your potential.

Hi P.I.P,

I'm looking for the exact piece of paper on it that says one must have 500TT to get a work permit.

The Indian DGCA is notorious for requiring various flight times, experience, licensure etc with no notice or documentation to show for it. It seems to be about as efficent as the CAAB.

Lilflyboy mentioned in his previous posts that minimum hours exist, yet operators seem to hire based on personality. I don't have 500TT, but I still want to turn up in Maun/Windhoek and try my luck.

Do you think I have a chance? I would like feedback so that I can manage my expectations better.

Thank you :)

That's not been my experience, and I get it, they pay for crap, you're not living in the fancy cities, but a guy who can't get a first flying job back home will stick around till he hits 1k or maybe if the company is lucky 1500, ether way the guy is not going anywhere for a while as he has no where else to go, and he'll take some crap and do grunt work. Nothing wrong with that, life of the low time pilot.

Hire a multi thousand hour ATPL, piss him off with poor management or something and he's gone, with those hours and turbine time he doesn't NEED the low ranking job and can easily get a job on better equipment for higher pay and QOL.

Also the management is trained and used to working with low time desperate pilots, most of these pilots are quite young and this is their first "real" job, obviously the work atmosphere and management style are going to reflect this.

I'll stick to what I said, you'll have a easier and better time and QOL working up the ladder instead of down it.

James331; you didn't get any Jobs, not because you had too much experience, but because everyone thought you were a d***bag.

The fact that you are back in the states, sitting commenting on this thread shows you are still bitter that no one realised your brilliance. Just because the operators weren't blinded by the sun glinting off your 4-bar eppies, and thousands of hours, doesn't mean they are unprofessional; it means the could recognise a bad apple.

Africa is an acquired taste. It's not America. The industry is different here, it requires people to actually work if they want something. It expects the low time pilots to pump fuel, to work :mad: hours, to pay their dues.

But you know what, it weeds out those pilot's that don't have work ethic; the pilot's that are expecting a two year paid flying holiday in Africa.

Ba ha ha

That's why I got a job with near zero effort back home? Why I've always been able to get a flying job in no time flat since I earned my CPL, why I've had unsolicited job offers, because I'm a jerk :rolleyes:

Man I've worked 7 days a week flying with no sick days and no time off for years, I've fixed computers, pumped fuel, etc, and I'm a jeans and tshirt kind of guy, I'm not into the costume which seems much more prevalent in Africa, but that's off subject.


I loved it over there, I'll probably go back sometime this winter and visit the friends I made over there.

So you think it's a smart idea of a multi thousand hour pilot with turbine time to work his way DOWN the ladder by taking a low paying, entry level job in Bots?

@ pilot in pink...
I have no reasons to leave, but Im scared that someone else can broke my record!:ok:

Regarding the law, it is a long issue and a public forum is not the best place to discuss it, but just keep in mind, if you have less than 500hrs TT don't waste your money for a flight ticket!

Hi abezzi,

I am of the opinion that public forums ARE the place for pilots to discuss the regulations that allow/or preclude them from accepting/applying for a potential flight position.

I have been looking for about 3 days now, typing in various key words into google like "work permit botswana pilot minimum requirements hours 500 flight time maun charter validation conversion" etc to have my question answered. The CAAB site is not user friendly. The Labour Ministry website is, but i still haven't located the document/regulation I am looking for.

As far as i've read, validation is possible at all times, conversion is only completed after 500hrs in A2 reg a/c, but still no joy on the actual piece of paper on it that says:

"If you don't have at least 500 hours TT, don't bother coming to Maun to look for a job because we won't give you a work permit. With love, The CAAB".

I would also like to ask about the apparent duality of this particular requirement. In previous posts it appears that tenacity, presistance, drive, attitude, hard work, and sticking it out in the summer heat of Maun for 3 months that wins you a job or two, not TT.

Can i assume that this has M.O. has changed entirely then? Now the CAAB/Charter operators (Mack, Wilderness, Moremi, etc) want the req TT and put attitude on the second shelf?

It is not a CAAB requirement. They have no power over permits. It is a Labour requirement.

You will not find it written anywhere. Such is the way things work in Botswana.

As far as I know... Many pilots had work permits rejected for 'insufficient hours'. After much trial, error, and heart break, a meeting was held between Labour and the operators. It was at that meeting that the operators were told "500 hours for expats".

At least one operator is actively fighting this.

While it's true that in LFB's original post he mentioned that personality is more important than hours, that was written many years ago. Things have changed. To some extent it is true- personality will make you or break you... So long as you have the minimum hours.

The other thing to be aware of, as I've mentioned before, is that many operators have a minimum hour requirement on their insurance policy. I know that Moremi Air and Major Blue Air need 500 hours TT. Safari Air is 400 from memory. Even if Labour reduced their requirement, insurance minimums are not negotiable.


All this being said, a few weeks ago Delta Air offered a job to a 350hr pilot. Permit applications take a long time, so it will be a while before we know if this guy is successful or not.

Thanks PIP, you're the best!

That was exactly what I was looking for. Things work much the same way here in India unfortunately.

So I don't have 500TT. Would you gamble the cost of the trip and coming home jobless on getting hired?

I'm conflicted as to whether its better to put myself a couple thousand dollars further into debt on the chance that I land my first aviation job...hopefully as a pilot.

Sigh.

would you gamble...?
doh!
she did!

and it worked out.

But that's not why I'm writing...
If you are Indian, you should find out a bit about the visa situation before going, the Indian government doesn't get along too well with Botswana or Namibia, so there is a shorter limit on Indians than for other nationalities. There were a couple Indians flying in Bots, but I don't know how recent, or if they're still there. I do know that for most people you get a 3 month visa, but for Indians it's just 1 month.

Thanks a lot for your kind post DRS :) I was expecting a tongue lashing lol :}

I understand that there have been rising tensions between the two governments. Last year there were attacks in Delhi against "African Students"...I think they were Nigerian. There is a good deal of racsism towards Negros in India, which is ironic since some Indians are of the same complexion (Only a human could think up something as stupid as racism).

I'm actively researching the application process. I require a sponsor, and a letter of invitation. The documents required from the sponsor are quite intimate: Birth certs, bank docs, national identity cards, or passorts and visas etc.

At the moment, I'm trying to track down someone my family or friends know in BW to sponsor me to come over. Would a Charter company do it? I have written to a few safari camps/tour groups to ask them how they arranged visas for Indian tourists who bought a package tour. I'm sure theres some particular process that I can take advantage of. Anything you can think of if I don't find anyone?

See you in Maun! (I assume some of the regular PPRuNers on this thread are actually in Maun)

Thanks to everyone for your advices. My biggest concern was: will the companies look at me and think...why this man wants to fly here with more than 3000 hs...there must be something wrong about him!:rolleyes: all the guys flying with me in Tanzania were coming for a previous at least 2 years experience in Botswana and they were all enthusiastic about it. Let's see ;)

They will.

also the mere mention of your hours will be considered as "pompous" by some of the local low time pilots.

You likely won't go straight into the van.

Not sure if you're a ATPL, but if your license still says CPL, I'd almost suggest leaving 2200-2500hrs off your CV. Probably would make life easier for you, though ethically not the best thing to do.


Let us know how it works out.

Two sets of logbooks with a big chunk of hours left out of the middle of the second set while you were out of circulation for a year or two dealing with someone's estate after they'd dropped dead of an unusual tropical disease.
I'd leave your declared hours at just over 1,000. You have to be seen to fly within the reasonable boundaries of your declared experience or someone will smell a rat anyway.
As far as I know and in terms of company insurance, it's no offence to under declare your hours.

There was a tv series in the UK a year or two ago called ‘Bush Pilots’ about the fortunes of prospective pilots arriving in Maun. One of the pilots was a Ryanair 1st Officer with B737 rating and lots of hours who quit the airline to fly in Africa because his sister lived out there and she was very sick so he wanted to be close to her.

A lot of the companies in Maun were suspicious as to why someone would give up a decent job in an airline to come to Maun with no guarantees and they would not consider him. However he did eventually find employment, see the start of the clip below where he gets to do his check flight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuivy7a_ufU

It’s quite an interesting series (about 6 episodes) if you’re considering the move to Africa.

Good Luck

In my opinion some of the companies, not all but some, have no problems to employ pilots with more than 1000hrs TT, this is because in the last 8 months a good number of pilots left Maun before the end of the 2yrs contracts, and some companies are getting tired of young pilots that do not give a xxxx of the signature they put under a contract...luckily around the world some things are moving and a good number of pilots are needed, but in Maun the companies cannot spent months to trained and to follow up with all the caab and labour department crap and after few months have the pilots says goodbye...
Regarding the 500hrs, what PIP wrote is almost right, there is by the way another issue behind it...there is now a flying school in Gabs who is busy training local pilot for the CPL...you see what I mean???

The real reason is Botswana is getting more tougher on its migrant laws, the old days of a freindly nation looking for for expats are over, compared to the rest of Africa it is still friendly, but you gotta make yourself look good, I guess...the government has invested in pilots, enginers etc..So the job is advertised if a local can take it (or it is a legal requirement)...but yes they will need outside pilots for some time to come.

Well I think about time, I think Ethopian airlines are soon going to be starting a flight to GABS, it is an underutilised airport, although a refurbished one. I remeber the days when the british airways 747 on route to joburg, used to land there, and that was discontinued..and not much else since..

Excitement?
Only the odd manic local guy crashing up the entire Air Bots fleet after failing to destroy the presidential palace.
Still, perhaps that was the consequence of a plot initiated by the national airline some years before which had successfully demanded the introduction of local guys, both black and white, into the left hand seat, regardless of time on type, rating or experience.

Im sure some guys must remember whenthe RAF used to come down to Maun, in their Hercules, to train the BDF, Botswana Defence Force, I was allowed into the cockpit but dont touch!

Yes the Air botswana incedent, they found HIV in the pilots blood, and Air Botswana admitted that was the reason for grounding him, dont quite know the acceptaple levels, but he was not a happy chap after that.

The nights at the Pamodzi in Lusaka with the very early morning booking calls from reception for the cabin crews might have had something to do with it all.

Have they finished the new runway at Maun yet, it has been a few years now of some grumpy men looking for some shade underneath their bulldozers!!

I was actually with one of the training local pilots a couple of ears ago, he had his own cessna 172 which he flew in from Gauteng, sponsored by the government. We had the unpleasant meeting as it turned out to be because his mother used to work for my parents. He admitted he was up until 3am drinking, and the smell of alcohol was very real, but he took me around the delta and got me down safely...